confucius101

build me an engine LOL

ok so i have a bone stock 91 3.1 firebird
(except for the 17lbs accel injectors)

i do not want a v8
i do not want a 3.4
i do not want a hybrid

what i do want is to make this block and strong and reliable as possible
what i do want is to see exactly what i can get out of the 3.1 that i already have in the car before adding the turbo and yes i will be hitting a dyno and posting the results b/4 and after the turbo

so as stated in yesterday post i'm having the engine and tranny pulled next month so while it's out i'm thinking about having it worked

before we go any further I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ENGINES but i am learning more and more every day thanks to this site and a few others

so i need a list of parts can you guys help me out and yes i have been using the big button and will to be honest there is just so much info up and out there that I've gotten lost and now am even more confused then before i pushed that darn button 2 weeks ago

confucius101

a clotes timing chain and cover / cam / roller rockers / value springs / performance pulleys / value covers / water pump / distributor / coil / ignition / fule regulator / trans cooler

RoosterC

I'm doing the same thing! Except I'm swapping in a 3.1 (currently 2.8) hopefully some good info gets put out

firebird904

Did you read the stickies at the top of the page? TONS of great info in there.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, the best bang for your buck would be a hybrid (you'll get more out of the heads alone than you will everything on the iron heads and the port flow is much better for the turbo you'll be installing later), but you don't want that, so...

Probably a Crane cam would be best if you're going to turbo it later, Pacesetter headers, and you're going to want to ship out the heads to have them ported and polished by someone who knows what they're doing with the 60* heads along with the intake. Get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and either a Vette or external high-flow fuel pump and plan on bigger injectors (NOT Accel fuel injectors or Accel ANYTHING for that matter). An MSD ignition system with a remotely mounted Blaster 2 or 3 coil would do nicely.

You're going to have to learn to tune the ECM. You think that just putting the engine together is confusing, wait until you get into the DIY PROM section. Unless you swap over to a MegaSquirt and use its self-tuning software.

:edit: If you really wanted to go crazy, get hypereutetic pistons and some moly rings, and there are a couple mods you can do to the water pump and the like to improve coolant flow. Don't forget the cooler thermostat.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Oh god...

Not another one of these threads. :facepalm:

confucius101

YES :facepalm:

i have been reading up on this for the past year actually and i'm sorry for still getting confused by it

with that said the only reason i am thinking of staying away form the hybrid route is well because i just figured i'd have a hard time figureing it all out and
then explaining it all to the shop that will be working on the car

Can anyone reccomend a shop where i can send oout the heads and intake?????


so anyways hows this look so far



Crane Cams 254122 - Crane CompuCam Cam and Lifter Kits

Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 264/274, Lift .423/.423, Chevy, 2.8L, Kit

Crane Cams 25621-12 - Crane Chromemoly Pushrods

Pushrods, Chromemoly, Heat-Treated, 5/16 in. Diameter, 6.163 in. Length, Chevy, V6, Set of 12

CRN-25759-12 Rocker Arms, Stud Mount, Full Roller, Aluminum, 1.60 Ratio, Fits 3/8 in. Stud, GM V6, Set of 12

Crane Cams 99848-12 - Crane Single Valve Springs
Valve Springs, Single, 1.255 in. Outside Diameter, 432 lbs./in. Rate, 1.153 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 12

Crane Cams 99915-12 - Crane Steel Valve Spring Retainers
Valve Spring Retainers, Steel, 7 Degree, 1.250 in. Outside Diameter, .607 in. Inside Diameter, Set of 12

Transaction$47.95 $47.95 Remove

MSD Ignition 6200 - MSD 6A CD Ignitions
Ignition Box, 6A, Analog, Capacitive Discharge, Universal, Points, OEM, Aftermarket Electronic, Each

MSD Ignition 8202 - MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coils
View Image and Compare

Ignition Coil, Blaster 2, Canister, Round, Oil Filled, Red, 45,000 V, Each


Alternator; XS Volt; Hi Amp Alternator; CS130; 140 Amp; Black; Small Case; Right Mount

Part Number: PWM-578608

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

^lol, you love it.

I want 400 hp at the wheels and 40 mpg on a $1.79 budget.


confucius, what Six_Shooter was thinking, is that there are very few ways to build our engines that make sense. Go outside those routes and you'll be spending more to get less. Your 3 options you don't want are the easiest ways to make power.....

The reason my car isn't done 10 years later is because I'm still learning. Yes, there's a lot, but it's manageable. I'm eventually going to go the 3.4 hybrid turbo route like everyone else, because that makes the most sense. A max NA built 3.1 followed up with a turbo... not so much.

It's your car, do what you want. But you'll probably get better results with a more focused question. (i.e. "What cam should I get?")


edit: never mind. you posted while I was typing.....

Project 3.4 Camaro

Like I tell anyone that starts asking these sorts of questions read my sticky....and the other guys here are right, a hybrid and or 3.4 is the best route to go, and jensen not everyone is going the 3.4 hybrid turbo route, I'm going to supercharge mine :P part 1 of that is done...got the 3.4 in there, though its developed some issues =/ Bad idle and bad rings, thing I don't get is it ran great before the fuel pump died....anyways...

No point getting headers if you are going to turbo, unless you plan to tie into the exhaust after the headers/manifolds, as for the rest, read my sticky, and if you still have questions I'll be happy to answer them....

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'll have to dive into my desktop dyno program to be sure, but I think that cam is going to be very weak for what you want to do later. I do know that those rocker arms are NOT going to fit on the studs in the heads, unless you get the modified studs (there's a set out there that has the stock thread size on the bottom and the 3/8" thread size above the nut). You might place a call into Crane to find out what springs and keepers they recommend with the cam you plan on using. The wrong spring means wiped cam lobes or other engine damage.

:edit: You do NOT want to build the engine for "now". You want to build it for the turbo "later" and adjust the ECM (whichever route you plan to go there) tune for the new parts. Otherwise, you could find yourself putting in a different cam and such in later when you could have done it all at once.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I think you have it backwards, that cam should do fairly well with a turbo, but not so well N/A, its a pretty similar cam to what dave runs..

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Like I said, I have to check on the P/N... I think there's 3 on my list, and IIRC, that's the weak one...

:edit: I think I lost the cam files for the Crane cams . I'll have to rebuild them later when I get inside from freezing my butt off working on my hybrid. It would help to know what turbo combination he plans on as well.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Curious how exactly does desktop dyno work, i.e. could you figure out a power estimate for me if I gave you a list of mods?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

PM me...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Any competent shop that works on custom swaps should have no problem figuring out how to make a hybrid work. Trying to get as much out of an iron headed 3.1 falls into the "custom" category, since it takes a LOT of work to get respectable power out of one.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

well ported heads, edelbrock intake manifold with a TBI setup, solid roller cam, headers and lots of tuning should get some noticeable results...


If you don't do anything with the heads you are shooting yourself in the foot.

you can put the biggest, baddest cam in there you can fit with stepped tube headers, high comp pistons, and whatever else you want but if you don't increase port flow you are going to have a complete dog of an engine. It'll be miserable to drive and i guarantee you'll regret it.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah, heads are what make or break an engine in terms of power output, they have a far bigger effect on it than anything else, goes for all engines. Aluminum head swap is pretty much good for 50 hp increase afaik. Can't wait till I have the money to put a 3500 top end in my car.
Can't wait till they implement electronic valves(huge loss of rotational weight in engines and a lot less friction due to not having to have pushrods, cams, rocker arms, valve springs, lifters....Can't help but wonder how hard it would be to add that to an existing engine since its still prototype technology, but it would probably have a big impact on head design as well, they wouldn't be constrained by having to work the ports around pushrods and what not.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

Looks like you guys covered just about everything.
One thing I would recomend is file fit piston rings.
I file fitted the piston rings for my non-turbo 6.2L/6.5T hybrid diesel engine I built and I am hooked. I am running about 24:1 compression (yes twentyfour to one) so it really made a difference for me.
I laugh at cold starts now (cold starts can be a problem for indirect injection engines like this).
Every engine I build form now on is getting them.