i want to swap my 6 for an 8
the car is a daily driver so it has to be street legal
what can i keep?
what do i need?
i would like to still use my 5-speed (temporarily at least)
note: i am a senior in high skool so I need the least expensive way as possible
the car is a 1991 rs with a 3.1 and 5 speed

 

it would be a whole lot easier and cheaper just to drop in 3.4 out of a 93 or 94 fbody. you'll get a few extra hp and w/ a few mods you could have ya a pretty quick car. I'm dreaming of my SC'd 3.4 that I'm gonna get me when my 2.8 dies!

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1986 SC, 2.8L, newly rebuilt 700R4, 3.42 Posi. 132K miles and counting, K&N air filters.

 

ur best bet is to go to ur local junkyard and find like a 91 305 TPI out of a Trans am or Z28 that has been crashed up. The reason i say 305 and not 350 is becouse a 5 spd and 350 combo was never made. Keep the 5 spd in the car, autos are boreing and the 305 will bolt right up (u might need a bellhousing). Get the computer and wireing harness out of the donor car and drop it in urs. It shouldnt be that hard. Just act like ur GM putting a 305 in the car from the factory, that way resale will be good

 

I have to disagree with the "autos are boring" remark.

You should see if the junkyard can sell you the whole v8-equipped car; it'll make life easier.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

im sorry auots arent boreing just not as fun as a 5 spd I mean to me nothing beats that feeling of lightly going through the gears and getting that snap in the neck thing goin on......BTW i was acctually thinking on buying a 94 formula, green with grey leather and it had an auto. I wouldnt be getting rid of my third gen for it so dont worry.....im still loyal to my thirdgens(that and i think my car is alot nicer

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1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
-------------------------
system: 2 10" MTX thunder 2000 in a Professionally done custom bandpass box.
Blaupunkt CD player
Blaupunkt 4x6 and 6x9
600 watt rockford fosgate 4.6 amp

http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html

 

I was going to swap to a v8 but decided against it mainly because of the cost (easily 5-6000K) and becuse of gas prices.

 

Exactly what I was about to say. I wanted a LT1 SCed with a 6-speed in it. But damn, for my first car I also thought that I was gonna get a 1999 SS. Its not worth the trouble. I would get the 3.4L engine instead. I cant believe Im saying this but its the logical thing to do.

1: lightness
2: less gas
3: wait till you see the look on the guy thats driving the IROC when you beat him with your 3.4L.
4: You can keep your tranny along with alot of other parts.

So just think about it, Im not gonna sit here and tell you that the 3.4L swap is the RIGHT THING because it depends on what you want. So good luck and if you decide to change over to the V8 side.....sniff....we will understand

------------------
1992 Camaro RS 3.1L
T5 Manual 5 speed
Open Air Intake
Z-28 Exhaust
8.5mm MSD Ignition wires
TB Coolant bypass

Kills:

95 (****) Probe GT
94 Mustang GT
91 CRX (dont ask me why he raced me)
2nd Gen Z28 (350) haha to you V8 guys!
1992 RS 305 TBI (good race)
More to come

 

well, i think i'll tell topGuy I think that you can drop in a v8, it's not going to be easy though, and especially for a highschool student, trust me, i am one. Now, like tom said, your best bet would be to buy a 305 doner car, and switch out all nesecarry appliances, and if you go with fuel injection you'll also need to change out your computer. I'm not totally sure if your 5 speed will bolt up or not, i've heard arguments either way, but i feel that it might not bolt up right. You'll basically have to change a lot of little stuff.
motor mounts
radiator
computer
motor
possibly tranny
possibly rear end
front springs (i think, because of the extra v8 weight.)
tach
emmessions stuff,
probably some exaust stuff (maybe)
and some other things i'm not thinking of. In general it'd be cheaper to just buy a v8 car, that's in good running condition. If you're just looking for a bigger motor, i'd say drop in a 3.4L, or keepit as a 3.1 and just buy a v8 later. You can still mod that 3.1 to be a quick car. But, if you want the v8, go for it. Just know how much work your getting into before hand.

 

Man the V8 would tear the 5speed all to hell. Ive heard you have to get the T56.

------------------
1992 Camaro RS 3.1L
T5 Manual 5 speed
Open Air Intake
Z-28 Exhaust
8.5mm MSD Ignition wires
TB Coolant bypass

Kills:

95 (****) Probe GT
94 Mustang GT
91 CRX (dont ask me why he raced me)
2nd Gen Z28 (350) haha to you V8 guys!
1992 RS 305 TBI (good race)
More to come

 

hell yeah dude..swithing ur v6 to a v8...go the t56 route if u can afford it..it'd be a pimp *** ride just with that in it not to mention original with a 4th gen 6 speed in a 3rdgen!!

------------------
Flowmaster 80 series, Random Technologies Cat, 3" intermediate pipe, SS
Hand Made Tips, 3 1/4" out, Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Coil, MSD Ignition Module,MSD 6A Box
Currently Working On:
T5 swap
Next to buy:
Slp dual cold air intake!

1982 z28..
350 4bbl black leather inside and black outside...no mods yet except for maybe the exhaust from my firebird

 

to change to a V8 isnt much more than a change to 3.4, besides a stock 3.4 isnt gonna run many car so figure in some mod pricing. Ur tranny and rear end are the same as in n e other v8 f bod. The only thing i could possibly see u changing on the tranny is the bellhousing. Just get it out of the donor car....

 

bull**** say i ,the 5 speed in a v6 is a v6 specific trans it WILL NOT stand up to a 305 it will blow up the minute you drop the clutch and the rearend prob wont stand up to the power either youll need a complete donor car well you dont need one but life wil be hella easier this is the route im gonna take i think as my gnx turbo motor apparently wont fit without tta heads. dude go for teh v8 swap its cheaper to make hp and its not gonna cost 6000 bucks id figure about 2000 and that will get you alot of power compared to if ya stayed with a v6 go v8.
my 2cents

 

like mark said, go for the v8 if you want it. And also, how you'd have to mod the 3.4L to get it running up to v8 standards, and he's most likely right about the tranny too, it'll probably split into a million highspeed pieces. Now, the 305v8 did come with a 5spd tranny, yet if you're going the 350 route, which i hope you are. just remember, there was never a 5speed option, so you'd have to go with a T56, or 6spd. Also, 305's often came with open rearends, just like our 2.8's/3.1's. So, a 305 might be ok on that axel, but a 350 will snap it in half. Just my .02, go the donor car route, and do the swap yourself, you'll save a lot of money, and have a quick car, sorry, fast car.

 

the only way the rearend will survive is if you never get traction and always spin 1 wheel if ever one hooked up or both hooked up you could kiss the rearend goodbye youll be pickin up the pieces and dude go for a 350 or maybe a 400 and if you want to do it on the cheap side carburate it fuel injection is great but extremely expensive and you can get way more power for your buck

 

do some research. there was never a dedicated 6 or 8 cyl tranny. Its either a borgwarner T-5(WC in certain years) or a 700r4. It wasnt the 6cyl T5 or a 8cyl T5, its just the T-5.

BTW there are a few V8 guys on the board that took the whole rear ends out of the 6cyls and work fine

 

On this swap I have been told time and time again, do not do it to the car ya need to drive everyday cause it can be tied up as little as a weekend to as much as a month to get the job done right..

 

Mark28V6, the rear axle is the same for a 2.8 V6, 350 V8, and even the 2.5l I-4. GM didn't change them because of the motor. All the externals/internals are the same. The axle will withstand the power of a v8. Whoever told you otherwise is wrong.

However, the manual trans is a different story, people have told me it will work as long as it's babied.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

sorry mann i was mistaken so sue me i know for a fact the trans will not stand up to small block v8 torque i saw one grenade on the first power shift it was my friends car and i helped him do the swap and dude invite about 3 to 4 friends over start on a friday work hard plan ahead and youll be done by sunday if you know what yer doin if not i wouldnt do it.its really not that hard oh yeah buy some polyeurathane motor and tranny mounts while yer at it and do yer u joints too,nothin worse than gettin it done and havin too crawl back under it a week later cause yer tranny mounts gone south or yer u joints are goin bad.just think ahead dont rush but dont take yer time and go for it ,if you know whast yer doin,have fun dood good luck if you go for it

 

Cool; thanks for the verification that they are different trannies. Do you know if the whole thing is smaller than a v8 manual?


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

n e T5 will explode if u power shift thats just not good for a tranny.

 

nnot so i can power shift my t5 and have never had a prob with it granted 135hp wont blow it up but just sayin iv never had a prob powershiftin.but anyway im not rtyin to start a flame war.just voicin my opinion.see ya guys and dude on the rearend didnt the guy say he wanted power and will the rearend stand up to alot of power nope.

 

well u keep power shiftin away and see how long its gonna last u reguardless of hp. The factory rear end in his car will hold up. He isnt asking for a 400hp beast he wants a mild 305 or 350 in which case the factory rear will do fine.

 

Like ONEFINE8T9 said; the axle will be fine, unless he sends it 400 HP. WS6TRANSAM wrote up a great article on strengthening the 10-bolt axle, here's the link: http://www.isthq.com/~dan/10bolt.html

But hey, most 350's don't need an axle that supports 400 HP. If they did, you'd hear of them breaking much more often.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

why the hell go thru all da trouble of the swap for a 305 come on,thas just stupid,go 350 or 400 and get a edelbrock performer rpm package for it boom 420 at least then go sth gen rear get some nice 17s 1 1/2 drop there ya go ya got yerself a kickass ride thatll whuup up on newer cars like no tomorroww.go 350 man youll be happier if you decide you want more ponies down the road.good luck

 

If you dont mind the gas consumtion go for the 305 tpi, trust me its if you get a good setup for your car its like god kicked your car in the *** and youre skytocketing to the moon .

Its a simple mod, you need the engine and comp. from a wreck and you need to do something about your brakes!!

Don get me wrong guys, I used to have an 87 305 Formula, but due to excessive school brokeness fever, I now have an 85 2.8 with 200,000 Miles and I love it!!! This engine does'nt die.

Thinking of getting a 3.1 or 3.4 and Im definitely going turbo, woohoooo!!!

 

*OFFICIAL NOTICE* REPEAT *OFFICIAL NOTICE*

do not do this as a modifcation, or a simple mod. Yes it can be done, and yes it's easy hp, but it's not a mod, and shouldn't be performed as one. This should be done only if you wish to keep your car for a long while, remember, if you do the swap, sell your car the next day, i'll guarentee you'll lose money on it. I wouldn't even tell someone to do a 3.4L for just a mod, itd be idiotic, it'd be a gain of 25hp, the only difference is you'll be gaining nearly 100+hp,which is more than a v6 can take even on juice. So, go for it, but not as a mod, an investment.

 

Good point, 85f-bird!

Plus it's so easy sometimes to say "why bother with the 305, drop in a 350"- although the ultimate decision lies in how much cash is available. Besides, if a 305 swap's done now, a 350 swap can always be done in a few years- and it would involve much less parts.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Can always get a 335 stroker kit for your old 305 I always like being different that is why I have the 2.8, and hope to have a 84 Vette one day...

 

in response to 85f-bird: i am planning on having the car 4 a long time i want to do it as an investment

 

Okay, few things. #1 You will need a new tranny! The Bellhousing is like once piece with the casing, so its either new tranny or new casing w/ belhousing attached. We looked into the swap with my Camaro when I blew the engine, but I hate that car with avengance so we said no way.
With the 3.4 swap, it isn't really worth it I have discovered. You cannot find a 3.4 in my area for a descent price. The V-8 swap woulda been cheaper then the 3.4 swap.
And lastly, as for a T-5 standing up to a 350... it will, as long as you baby it. I know a couple guys with 355s or 383s and T-5s. Yeah, they do go through a tranny every 4-5 months, but well..... it will kinda work for awhile, but as I stated before, the V-6 one won't hook up to the V-8

 

what whack r u speakin?

 

to TOM P will the engine bolt up or not?
can i put on a bellhousing? i'm not worried about how long the tranny will last i just want to know if it will fit
im going in circles
first everyone said no
then everyone said yes
then no
then yes
get the idea?

 

I am under the assumption V6 blocks use a metric bolt pattern. (What ever that means)Thus in now way unless you get custom will it work. My thoughts on this is:

1. Why not just buy a nice 700 R4 from Jet fully preped for 1200

2. Swap in a 6 speed they now sell brackets for it and it would be cool and highly exotic

Either way you get a new tranny and a hopped up one that can handle what ever ya toss at it.. Since it is an investement and all that..

 

The v6 automatic won't fit up to a v8; the bellhousing has a different pattern, and the v6 tranny is smaller (so the bellhousing couldn't be re-drilled.

It's possible a v6 manual-tranny's bellhousing could be redrilled. Or, maybe, a v8 bellhousing used on the v6 manual trans.

Your safest bet is still to hunt down the correct trans- what if the v6 manual only lives a week behind the v8? All the time/work for the v6-trans-conversion is lost, and you'll be getting a v8 unit anyway.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

OK, I will speak up here. You're looking to do exactly what I did about a year ago, with the exception that I used to have a 2.8L V6 and I was in my first year in college. But the idea is the same...low cash; ditch the V6. I decided that the cheapest way to go (although not the easiest to pass emissions, but possible) was to go with a non-computer controlled V8. I bought a rebuilt 350 long block for about $600 (although any junkyard 305 or 350 will do). But anyways, the main point I wanted to make is that a T-5 and 350 will bolt together. The T-5 was offered with a 305, and a 350 block is the same as a 305 block. So you just have to find a bellhousing for a T-5 that fits a smallblock. The bellhousing is seperate from the transmission itself. 4 bolts hold it on. While my 350 is nothing spectacular power-wise (only the intake and exhaust are upgraded...cam and heads are stock), the entire drive train has held up fine. That might be different if I had posi, but I lose traction long before anything would break. Just use the clutch like you are supposed to, and you shouldn't have any problems. Let me know if I have said anything you would like to know more about, or if anybody thinks something is questionable/wrong. Glad to offer any help, as this is basically the same swap that I did a year and a half ago.

Mike

'84 Camaro
350 w/T-5!

 

the v6 bellhousing will not bolt up to a v8. the 60*v6 and 90*v8 chevy enginges are totaly different. The T-5 will hold up to a 350 as long as its a later model. there are lots of guys doing it. you don't "need" a t-56. The 700R4 from a v6 will also not bolt up to a v8. You could try to get an adapter plate from www.advanceadapters.com

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Performace Red =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

tas------duh!!!!!!!!!
we already know that the 6 bellhousing will not bolt to an 8
we want to know if an 8 bellhousing will bolt to a v-6 tranny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes. It fits perfectly.

And as a side note, the only differences that I know of in the T-5 transmissions meant for the V6 engines vs the ones meant for the V8s is the number of splines on the input shaft, and the gear ratios.