I'm still trying to find the ECM. I'm restoring my interior right now and this car came complete with no drivetrain..lol. I'm considering engine options right now and I'm tring to get a handel on what the job entails. The ECM is not where my says it is, but there are a few unused clips at the end of the wiring harness next to a light green platic box with a 70's looking curcuit board inside (CHIP?) is this where my ECM is supposed to be?, or is it that assembly with the diagnostic tester.

 

Well the ECM (Engine Control Module) is the complete brain or computer. The chip resides in this brain. The entire module should be inside the passanger side kick panel.

 

Thats where I thought, it definitly not there, just a piece of that tar stuff covering a hole. Hhhmm another part to ad to my list. Where do I find interchange info?

 

The computer (large metal box) is behind the passenger side dash piece (map pocket on Firebirds). Sit in the passenger seat and kick your feet up and remove the panel that you hit. Look for a large bundle of wires, they go to the computer if it is still there.

Dale

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1986 FireBird
2.8L MPFI
Gutted Cat, No muffler (Sweet Sound)
Was 700-R4 --> Now T5

 

Where did you find the light green plastic box? What year is the car?

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

It's definitly not there. I at one point last weekend I had the dash completely apart for restoration and I even replaced the heater core while I was there. It's an '83 Firebird and the light green box came out at the very end of the wiring harness next to two white unused connectors which I'm now certain are for the computer. The only other wire present was one for the alarm's door switch.

Now this leaves me wondering about the perviouse drivetrain. I have no idea about the history of the car. The only things I know are from the vin and that there's no frame/body damage. So it's entirely possible that at one point somebody else already fiquired out how to put in a mpfi engine keeping the same harness and putting the computer in the engine bay like I was inguiring about here about but never got a real staright forward answer.

I'm killing time at work right now so I can't look at the car now but I seem to remember that there where more than a few wires comming from the gas tank. QUESTION: How do I tell if I have an electric fuel pump?. It should be obvious I would quess (more wires than needed for a fuel gauge). But is there anothe obvious way to tell. I changed one in crysler lazer a few years ago but cant remember what it looked like.

This all didn't occur to me last night so another thing I want to look for tonight is for the computer. Hopefully its nicely wired up somewhere in the engine bay. That would be most convienent.

My parts just showed up, I REALLY can't wait
to go home now. New hatch shocks, rear shocks, brakes spring kit, three e-brake cables and a crome diff cover..JOY!. I'm having way too much fun with this car. My friends think I'm nuts and dad just shook his head when the tow truck dropped it off and said "You don't plan on having a life this summer...do you?". But as long I keep beer in my fridge my friends seem eager to help mmmmm beeeeeeerrr. Weird how I'm asking these simple questions and they (my friends) think I'm some sort of godly know-it-all expert mechanic.

Anyhow thanks everyone, now and in advance. In the next few months I'll be asking many more questions. Just wait till I get an engine and start rebuilding. I've only rebuilt 2.2l dodge crap maybe four times and replaced head gaskets on them 20+ times and that was three years ago.

This is my only source for firebird-specific info. Places here in Regina, SK seem pretty clueless, I'm still looking a place that even knows what subframe connectors are.

Another question I have but doesn't come into play for about a month is: Why would a 5spd transmission be special for 1983 Firebird. One of the more proffesional wreckers here (our one and only insurance place) told me it was a specific tranny for that year but he didn't know what was different. I have a feeling I'll find out when I go to put that last bellhousing bolt in . I plan to make sure the engine and tranny match when I buy it but it could be something else thats different. ANYONE know whats different or have quesses?


Thanks.

 

Sounds like a fun summer to me! Like I said in my other message, you can tell what year engine was in there by checking out those white connectors. If they have many holes in them, they're for 85-up computer. If they have a long slot in each, with metal contacts extending into the long slot, that's the "card edge" connector (similar to what you see inside your computer when you add a Soundblaster or etc), and it's for an '82-84 computer.

I wonder if the green box has something to do with timing. V8's got an .. oh, what's it called... ESC? Electronic Spark Control? If the knock sensor went "off", the ESC would retard the timing... I think. It's been a while since I read about that.

I hope nobody put the computer in the engine bay..! I don't think these '80's ECM's could handle heat/weather temps well compared to the new cars... but anything's possible. It's colder in Canada, I hear.

With the electric fuel pump, you could look for the high-pressure hoses, and a bunch of tubes, high above the driver's side of the axle. You know the deal w/fuel injection; one fuel feed line (high pressure), one return line (low pressure), one charcoal-canister-fumes-vent line (low pressure), and one "plastic" tank-pressure-valve (low pressure). I'd say if you only have three hoses coming off the fuel tank (for fuel feed, evap canister, and pressure valve), you've got the mechanical guy in there... I think.

Kind of reminds me when I totalled my car.. long story, but I had to strip two cars to get the frame of the parts car welded onto mine. My buddy showed up on leave, and said "Not that I'm an *** or anything, but this is kinda cool." (I glared at him... then he said) "No, not about the crash, but that you're actually rebuilding a car, like we always talked about." He helped me out a ton on it... when it came back from the body shop, he and I took 4 days to put mine back together and get it started!

How was it rebuilding the Chrysler 2.2- besides that head-gasket-problem? I want to rebuild a junkyard 2.8 this summer; I assume you never rebuilt a motor before the 2.2?


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

For your 1983 V-6 car, you will not have an ECM
You have an IMPORT/FEDERAL carb'd car set up.
The ECM for your model was only for the V-8.
That said, I have the same drivetrain in my 1985 FEDERAL S-10 Blazer with 2.8 carb.
I DO NOT HAVE A COMPUTER
Where as a 1985 CALIFORNIA CARB S-10 will have a computer (very little required, but, CA needed it for it's designated emissions standards).
ALSO Computer used for the 4 Cylinder TBI set up.
5 speed special?
Maybe.
Not sure, so I cannot comment.
BUT
4-speed was COMMON in V-8s THEN and 5-Speed was special (just starting to appear in the market place).
Stick with the plan to find the intake & carb & distributor from a S-10 Blazer.
You'll be on the road faster!! And put out for less beer funds, too!!
Lots of Labatts Blue! Love that stuff! Hope it stays 22 degees celcius alot for ya

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

So Canadian f-bodies didn't get a computer? '82-'84 US f-bodies, with the 2.8 carb'd, got a computer. Why didn't Canada?


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Awsome, just the info I needed. No computer needed thats killer. To me that means an easy engine setup. I was really happy to see how simple the vacuum diagram looked. No options, No complications. I remember having a b**ch of time with the 305 in my old Grand Prix after all the vacuum lines lit on fire. Hehe now I don't friends to rebuild carbs for me...needle and seat upside down..silly people.
I fiquired out there isn't an electric fuel pump. I'm now sure the stock engine/tranny is what was in there. This is good for now.

Yeah the best plan I have is swapping intakes. A bit more expensive (A T/L'ed car would cost as much a just the engine). If I find a donor V6 with blue interior it might be worth the 30 hours to strip it. I could prob trade the FI setup straight across for the carb setup at an autowrecker. And sell the other parts privatly. I fiquire I could end up saving big money but spending more time. O.K. cause I have more time than money but a decent amount of $$$$ anyways.

How to make $500 a day: Secrets Revealed

A bit about the 2.2l off topic but somewhat relevant (use the money to build up your V6). Find out if its worth it first if the block has a Volkswagon Stamp or bigger bonus the Japaneese Mitsubishi 2.2l, go ahead if its a Crysler block -scrap it- From experience I can tell cryslers work the best when your not using them. It's easy to rebuild them, I did it and at the time I didn't know a cam from a crank until I had them in my hands that day. Pull the head off, disconnect everything and the part I liked was attaching a chain to block, wrap the chain around a 2x4 and two scrawny people can easily lift the block out. The main defect with 2.2l and 2.5l v6 is that it was made in the first place. I believe these engines were the first to use the aluminum head and overhead cam design BIG PROBLEM. Every early 2.2l and most late 2.2l will need it's head gasket replaced at least once if not several times. My theory on this is that since Iron and Aluminum have different coefficents of expansion, over time heating and cooling cause the head (weaker than the block) to warp (like I said Lazers\Daytona's are nice cars, but there only reliable if you don't drive them or don't keep them outside).
With the head warped it's only a matter of how much coolant starts going into the oil. The head NEEDS and can be resurface cheap, but it's only $200 tax in to get it totaly redone. You might need to do the rod bearings, pop one off and if you see copper get new ones. (the oilpan gasket costs more than the bearings).
This is how I financed My 82' Camaro (RIP Driven off a bridge). I would drive up and down ally's and it's enivitable that you'll find a laser/datona in someones back yard with a blown head gasket. I would politely knock on their door, inquire and then depending on the shape of the car flash 4-10 $20 bills and tow it home (sundays are best, these types of people are broke on sat morn and sundays). These cars do not rust and if so someone tried really hard so you never have to do body work, just paint. Usually the paints gone (doesn't like sunshine) and the cars are bare metal and they're still not rusted. I heard they used zinc in the body pannels, right now I really wish GM did this. For a total price of about $500 you have whicked car, with a great motor (The blocks never get a chance to wear out), newly touched up paint (they seem easier to spray bomb) for $500. Some people really like these cars, so you can set the price ultra high like $2500 and you just might get it, Some might fiquire out what your up to and you'll only get $1200 at the least. And you don't have to feel bad either, you're selling them a good car for what it's worth, they think they got a deal because the engines rebuilt and sometimes theyu get a new clutch. They don't usally know it's a disc worth $40, The just know when you go to shop for a head gasket and clutch it costs a couple grand. I sold one that was severely knocking, and really needed struts (oilpan hitting ground)for $800.

Oh yeah do not even go NEAR a Turbo 2.2L or Laser XP (the one that talks to you), Too many more moving parts for crysler to screw up. I think crysler should maybe have worked on perfecting the drink holder that doesn't crack immediatly before they tried to make a car tell you your doors ajar and you're going too fast (Like I said before, don't drive it, keep it in the driveway). Anyhow those cars are hilarious when their computer's on the fritz. Try to stick with the 84' model, less things to go wrong even though it has a dual venturi carb that you can't rebuild, never had to anyway.

So when you got that extra grand in your pocket thank Lee Iacocca or whatever that dudes name is for making mopar what is today and put the money to good use, buy some GM parts. Any questions?

What a kick-*** summer job I have been paid very well for writing this novel. I spend eight hours a day reading about f-bodys and then go home work on one for four hours. Puurrrrfect.

Thanks and later

------------------
'83 Blue V6 5spd Firebird
interior done, startin' to look sweet, Aluminum riveshaft, flywheel and Rims. Cooper Cobra's on rear. Viper Alarm. Workin on getting an engine.

 

Tom, my statement is about Federal S-10 Blazers. My version does not have a computer.
IF IT DOES, is has nothing to do.
The carb & dist are in sync, like on the 80's GM.
NOW, using my S-10 Blazer factory Helms book (The Chevy service book for my Blazer), page 6E7-4
Federal
No computer
CALIFORNIA ONLY
(next page)
Yep an ECM & such.
HOW TO DOUBLE CHECK YOUR CAR, RIGHT NOW!
look under the dash, by right knee for the ALDL connection (for reading codes.
IF it's not there, neither is a ECM.
Tom, I believe you may be wrong, BUT PROVE ME WRONG.
Looking at my Chiltons for Camaro/Firebird, I do not see a specific answer, as I can find for my S-10 Blazer (I had to use this page often out in CA. They never believed me!)
BUT, look for the ALDL diagnostic connector to be sure if ya had one or not.
I hope this helps ya along the golden path of car crafting!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I can't prove it, only Blade can! Good idea about the ALDL connector. I just remember hearing that all f-bodies were computer controlled, starting in 1981.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Hi Tom,
Correct, but not totally correct.
IN California,
1980 started a CCC (Computer Command Control), I believe, it was only for the carb & dist.
This was on a 305 Chevy (Camaro, Corvette, etc). A 350 sized engine, put/pushed out to many pollutants. Couldn't pass back then.
All it really did was keep the air/fuel ratio to 14.7. Worked with the carb (electoinc piezo-fuel ratio) & distb. (adjustments of timing).
It made "15" corrections (big business, back then!), compared to, now a days. This is taken from my Chilton book for 82-92 Camaros.
I can always pull out the Helms book for the 1981 Corvette, but, that's the idea.
Later on, the Auto manufactures got better and smarter.
But, in my 1985 Blazer, that's what I have, NOTHING except for an EGR, smog pump & a PCV and LOTS OF HOSES, MILES OF THEM!!
I really believe, it will be the same as the earliest carb f-bodies. They are the same drive trains.
Unless someone else has the Helms books for those years, this is my guess.
But, check under the Camaro dash, for the MOLDED BOXED PIECE for the ALDL connection.
IF IT'S NOT THERE, I DOUBT the car had a computer.
ALSO!!!!
Check the dash for a LIGHT BEHIND THE SES section. IF NO LIGHT, NO COMPUTER, too!!
My S-10 Blazer has really gone thru smog hell for those little details. (Same story for my 1974 Corvette. I have a FEDERAL VERSION, it's different, too!)
Before I met this one guy, Smog stations were ALWAYS trying to make money off (CAN WE SAY RIP OFF ARTISTS!!!) of me. Luckily, I finally found a fair & truthful guy.
Really lucky!!

For my Corvette, I WROTE TO THE PUBLISHERS OF THE SMOG BOOKS (all three of them). I gave them facts and copies of the GM pages, to prove my point.
It was corrected the next printing.
OF course, they never wrote back, saying thanks for the correction!
BUT, atleast I know I have saved hundreds of others lots of aggrivations.
AND saved TONS OF MONEY for the owners of these federal cars in the Land of Smog & Haze!
Chalk up one more point for the Hot Rodders of California!


------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I'm starting to get confused. But good thing now and not ten minuted before I pick up an engine.

I can easily believe what Ked85 is saying. I had an 1984 omega 2.8l V6 FWD briefly that would backfire both ways and stall. After many days of troubleshooting and replacing parts using a U.S. Haynes manual I finally took to get diagnostics. After me doing all sorts of work they replaced a $25 part and it ran perfectly. I asked the tech about the part and I mentioned I used the haynes manual. He told me that that was my problem, and that the ingnition system is totally different on canadian models. I think it was an ignition modual I needed that wasn't even mentioned in the manual.


As far as this ALDL connector. If your talking about the diagnostic tester under the steering wheel, it is present and of course also present on the Omega. I gotten to now the electrical system in my Firebird pretty intimatly and I sure thats the only one. I searched for that harness someone mentioned that goes through the passenger fender and there's nothing there. The only wires on that side of the car are the ones for the heater and the door sensor. A remember a buddy's 84 blazer had one of those connectors I'm talking about too if i remember correcty.

I guess a call to the Pontiac Dealership will settle this. I'll do that and post what they say latter. For now tend to and like to believe Ked

 

I was just pondering something unrelated to this. In the U.S. do they say Zeeeee-28 or Zed-28. zeee-28 just dosn't seem to convey an image of power. Cam-AIR-O or Cam-er-o. Trans -AaaaM or Trans ahhM. To me the zee kinda sounds like like a child speaking thats been watching too much American T.V. and not enough Seasame Street. Or Cletus the slack jawed yokel off simpsons I can picture him saying "I got me a Zeee-28".
all matter of perspective I quess. I'm sure Americans can say something similar about how we pronusiate. No-Do'bt-abut-it

I hope I didn't **** anyone off, you've all been a great help.

 

The Dealship tells me there is no computer on a '83 canadian Firebird. Thats settles that. The 3.4L conversion is $5960!!! unflerkinbelievable. Even the parts guy let out a yell of disbelief. He couldn't tell me which engines from other cars would fit. The engine rebuilder say anything RWD 82-86. My fav. autowreckers say 2.8L or 305 thats it. Must be he's a real fan of keeping things stock. He recommended I buy a wreck for from SGI and transplant side by side. This is starting to look like my only option. The T/L lot is close to where I work so I guess that warrants a daily lunch hour visit.

 

So the car's all a Canadian thing then, eh? Thanks for the Canadian 82-84 info, Ked & Blade! (But, what does the ALDL do, then?)

It's pronounced "Zee-28". In the days of the 1st gen, Chevy wanted a special model, but they couldn't figure out how to name it. Someone suggested they use the next RPO option code available- which was Z28. There's some trivia for ya!

------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!