HOLY S**T... gas mileage
HOLY S**T... gas mileage
I had checked my gas mileage around town and have been getting just under 20 MPG (19.9 to be exact) I got a chance to check highway mileage on a run between Cleveland, OH and Indianapolis, IN over Memorial Day weekend. and to my surprise I got over 32 MPG
(32.4 to be exact) Anyone else getting these kind of highway numbers?
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'86 Camaro SC 2.8 V6, 5spd, T-Tops
Mods:
(Performance)
Flowmaster cat back exhaust
(Non-Performance)
Pioneer DEH-P4000 head unit
Pioneer 6X9 Tri-Ax speakers
Jensen 8" dual voice coil sub
Blacked out tail lights and side markers (VHT
Nightshades spray tint)
3
[This message has been edited by BadBowTie (edited May 30, 2001).]
(32.4 to be exact) Anyone else getting these kind of highway numbers?------------------
'86 Camaro SC 2.8 V6, 5spd, T-Tops
Mods:
(Performance)
Flowmaster cat back exhaust
(Non-Performance)
Pioneer DEH-P4000 head unit
Pioneer 6X9 Tri-Ax speakers
Jensen 8" dual voice coil sub
Blacked out tail lights and side markers (VHT
Nightshades spray tint)
3
[This message has been edited by BadBowTie (edited May 30, 2001).]
When my bird is not trying to shake itself apart it gets 30mpg with a mix of city/hwy driving. I haven't had a chance to do much straight highway driving to check out the mileage.
Dale
------------------
1986 FireBird
2.8L MPFI
Gutted Cat, No muffler (Sweet Sound)
Was 700-R4 --> Now T5
Dale
------------------
1986 FireBird
2.8L MPFI
Gutted Cat, No muffler (Sweet Sound)
Was 700-R4 --> Now T5
Great going!
I may move there just to get milage as good as yours!
Wish I could get almost 20 in town!
I possibly got close to thirty, this weekend. Really trying to not hit the pedal, when the traffic permits!
Were you at Indy?
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
I may move there just to get milage as good as yours!
Wish I could get almost 20 in town!
I possibly got close to thirty, this weekend. Really trying to not hit the pedal, when the traffic permits!
Were you at Indy?
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 0
From: Halifax, NS,Canada
Car: 1995 Z28
Engine: LT1
Transmission: Built 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.23's - Limited Slip
Okay, I put $36 in, gas is $.879 a litre (3.78 litres in a US gallon) and I do alot of in town driving, with my friends in the car, but I have been able to avoid alot of WOT. (All them own crap Tempos, and Lumina's, cavaliers, so a one wheel peel that last for more than 5 seconds keeps them happy... 
On the $36, I drove a little over 400km, which works out to about 23 mpg. So, I think I will see a 30mpg mark on a long trip too...but isn't that the point of a V-6...
------------------
1987 Firebird
2.8L Auto
T-Tops
New Paint last Fall
No mods yet...

On the $36, I drove a little over 400km, which works out to about 23 mpg. So, I think I will see a 30mpg mark on a long trip too...but isn't that the point of a V-6...

------------------
1987 Firebird
2.8L Auto
T-Tops
New Paint last Fall
No mods yet...
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
From: First one out of liberty city, burn it to the ground
wow...i wish i was getting the mpg most of you are getting.. mine SUCKS!
------------------
1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in
Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil (Fireball in future) Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Ignition Module, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock (needed one) Fuel Pressure, and 5" monster tach) 4th Gen Seats
--For Sale--
(Who says drumsets are cheap? selling my car to get a new one..) EMAIL ME!
" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".
------------------
1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in
Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil (Fireball in future) Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Ignition Module, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock (needed one) Fuel Pressure, and 5" monster tach) 4th Gen Seats
--For Sale--
(Who says drumsets are cheap? selling my car to get a new one..) EMAIL ME!
" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
From: Chilliwack, BC
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: 5.7 V8 TPI
Transmission: T-5 5-Speed Manual
Ok I hope i figured this out right, I'm not too sure on how many gallons the tank is (I think I heard 12gal once)
I get 400km in town & 500km hwy; hopefully my equations are correct:
400k/1.6 = 250mi; 250mi/12gal = 20.88(etc) mpg
500k/1.6 - 312.5mi; 312.5mi/12gal = 26 mpg
so if i figured it out right i get 20.8 mpg city & 26mpg hwy
I get 400km in town & 500km hwy; hopefully my equations are correct:
400k/1.6 = 250mi; 250mi/12gal = 20.88(etc) mpg
500k/1.6 - 312.5mi; 312.5mi/12gal = 26 mpg
so if i figured it out right i get 20.8 mpg city & 26mpg hwy
Trending Topics
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KED85:
Great going!
I may move there just to get milage as good as yours!
Wish I could get almost 20 in town!
I possibly got close to thirty, this weekend. Really trying to not hit the pedal, when the traffic permits!
Were you at Indy?
</font>
Great going!
I may move there just to get milage as good as yours!
Wish I could get almost 20 in town!
I possibly got close to thirty, this weekend. Really trying to not hit the pedal, when the traffic permits!
Were you at Indy?
</font>
I think the tank is 15.5 gallons...
------------------
White 91 3.1 RS.
T-Tops
12" tube in the "trunk" (That hole they call a trunk anyways)
16" ROH Rims
Firestone Firehawks
BOSCH plugs and wires.
Energy Suspension Tranny mount and bushings
------------------
White 91 3.1 RS.
T-Tops
12" tube in the "trunk" (That hole they call a trunk anyways)
16" ROH Rims
Firestone Firehawks
BOSCH plugs and wires.
Energy Suspension Tranny mount and bushings
well actually I get a little better than that with over 100k. I get 420 per 12.5-13 gal highway and 325-350 in the city...I also only use premium gas though...it does make a difference. I use 93/4 octane. Going beween Illinois and Virginia I can approach the 420 at just above the E line. so I can probly get 450... And our tank holds 13.5 max...I have run it to fumes and beyond and thats all it took...I also found out that my low gas light does not work as well. I was going down he highway then the engine started stubbling and gaining after letting up on the gas...made it across the street to the gas station before dying what a biatch huh?...
Well the best mileage I got on the 2.8 was about 25 or 26. I drove to the beach(like 40 something miles away from the city and back and all I had was like a gallon in the tank and then bought two gallons on the way.
I do so hope to make it to Indy, one day.
And visit James Dean's Home, on the anniversay of his death (Sept 30th 5pm, 1955).
James is one of my hero's.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
And visit James Dean's Home, on the anniversay of his death (Sept 30th 5pm, 1955).
James is one of my hero's.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,414
Likes: 6
From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
The most I ever squeezed into my gas tank after driving on "E" for a while was 13.8 gallons. I have no idea why GM says we've got a 16 gallon tank! I think it was Jason E that suggested maybe an 82-84 un-baffled carbureted tank holds 16 gallons, and GM never bothered to re-measure the tank's capacity for later years.
As a reminder- it's not good at all for your fuel pumps to "suck air"! You can burn out your pump by doing that... so don't do it often. I used to run on E all the time when I was broke; after replacing the fuel pump on July 4th weekend of 1997, I've been very careful never to drive on E unless I had to. Ideally, we'd keep our tanks full all the time to soak some of the heat of the fuel pump off (since the pump gets submerged in the fuel). Just thought I'd throw that out there...
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
As a reminder- it's not good at all for your fuel pumps to "suck air"! You can burn out your pump by doing that... so don't do it often. I used to run on E all the time when I was broke; after replacing the fuel pump on July 4th weekend of 1997, I've been very careful never to drive on E unless I had to. Ideally, we'd keep our tanks full all the time to soak some of the heat of the fuel pump off (since the pump gets submerged in the fuel). Just thought I'd throw that out there...
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
Supreme Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
From: UCIrvine or SFV, CA
Car: 1999 Pontiac Trans Am
Engine: LS1 - 346 ci
Transmission: 4L60E
graeme & ked, do u think the crappy mileage in so cal is due to the fuel that we buy?? like all those clean air additives affect the MPG's??? juss a thought
------------------
Stock 2.8 MPFI auto w/ Flowmaster ?? Series (dunno what my dad put in), More to come......
New Pioneer Head Unit
Targa E-910 7-Band Equalizer w/ crossover
2x 10" Pioneer subs powered by 300 Watt Jensen amp
2- 6x9" Pioneer (rear)
More to come..... (hey, i dont got a job yet)
------------------
Stock 2.8 MPFI auto w/ Flowmaster ?? Series (dunno what my dad put in), More to come......
New Pioneer Head Unit
Targa E-910 7-Band Equalizer w/ crossover
2x 10" Pioneer subs powered by 300 Watt Jensen amp
2- 6x9" Pioneer (rear)
More to come..... (hey, i dont got a job yet)
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
From: First one out of liberty city, burn it to the ground
Im sure it is..i went to nevada and the MPG on my car went up my more then 45 per tank in city...my car originally came from texas..
------------------
1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in
Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil (Fireball in future) Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Ignition Module, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock (needed one) Fuel Pressure, and 5" monster tach) 4th Gen Seats
"I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to not have run at all"
------------------
1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in
Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil (Fireball in future) Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Ignition Module, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock (needed one) Fuel Pressure, and 5" monster tach) 4th Gen Seats
"I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to not have run at all"
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 960
Likes: 1
From: Fletcher, NC, USA
Car: 1982 Recaro T/A
Engine: LU5 CFI 305 V8
Transmission: TH-200C
Axle/Gears: 3.23 F-body Fanatic: Yes
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TomP:
The most I ever squeezed into my gas tank after driving on "E" for a while was 13.8 gallons. I have no idea why GM says we've got a 16 gallon tank!</font>
The most I ever squeezed into my gas tank after driving on "E" for a while was 13.8 gallons. I have no idea why GM says we've got a 16 gallon tank!</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I think it was Jason E that suggested maybe an 82-84 un-baffled carbureted tank holds 16 gallons, and GM never bothered to re-measure the tank's capacity for later years.
</font>
</font>
------------------
1982 Recaro Trans Am LU5/WS6/Y84, lowest mileage '82 T/A yet! - http://indiemonkey.com/82recaro
1985 basic Firebird, LB8/F41/GU6/DE1, '82 T/A wheels, CB, 128k - Get JPG picture here
2011 Norwood Gathering
ThirdGen Firebird Rep
ThirdGen Firebird Rep
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,435
Likes: 4
From: Sarasota FL
Car: 99 WS6 / 00 SS / 11 CTS-V / 13 300
Engine: LS1 / LS1 / LSA / 5.7 Hemi
Transmission: 4L60E / T-56 / 6L80E / W5A80
Axle/Gears: 3.23 / 3.42 Auburn / 3.23 / 2.62
Tom,
According to some old road tests, carbed cars were 15.8 gallons while FI cars (and L69s...they had in-tank pumps) had 15.5 gallons...same as a 4th gen BTW.
How Overclck got in 15.8 is beyond me
------------------
Jason E
'89 Camaro RS
Medium Grey Metallic
2.8, A4, T-tops, 91k miles
'97 Z28 w/30th Anniversary package
LT1, M6, t-tops
White with orange stripes, killer system, 42k miles
Speed Kills...Wanna live forever? Drive a Ford.
Long Live #3...
According to some old road tests, carbed cars were 15.8 gallons while FI cars (and L69s...they had in-tank pumps) had 15.5 gallons...same as a 4th gen BTW.
How Overclck got in 15.8 is beyond me

------------------
Jason E
'89 Camaro RS
Medium Grey Metallic
2.8, A4, T-tops, 91k miles
'97 Z28 w/30th Anniversary package
LT1, M6, t-tops
White with orange stripes, killer system, 42k miles
Speed Kills...Wanna live forever? Drive a Ford.
Long Live #3...
Most I've ever got in was about 13.7 gallons from E to topped off full. I was so low on fuel, every mild turn i took, the motor would starve for gas... hehe! aight payce.
------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"I'm out to seek those pesky VTEC boys!" (don't get me wrong, I'm asian myself! hehe)
Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro.
------------------
85 2.8L Sport Coupe 5-speed.
Mods: Hpertech chip and powerstat, MSD 6A-L, Crane fireball coil, Dynomax hi-flow cat and catback system with a dynomax magnum race bullet muffler on the i-pipe, K&N filterchargers, Eibach Sportlines and Tokiko springs/shocks setup, Global west sub frames, Suspension techniqs front and rear sway bars, and good ole 88 IROC wheels with Kumo Ecstas on em!
"I'm out to seek those pesky VTEC boys!" (don't get me wrong, I'm asian myself! hehe)
Wins: 2000 V6 Accord, 69 302 Mustang, 2000 Auto VR6 Jetta, 89 Toyota MR2, 90 Civic Si, 76 350 Camaro.
From my thinking, California gas is the best in the nation, because of all the adatives in it, for cleaner air. More refining.
It could be, for the few extra pennies, invested, it worth it.
Yes, gas prices still hurt, alot.
THE PLUS SIDE IS what it does to our engines.
I'll bet, they are "cleaner" inside, too.
How it affects milage? I would say, it's a Toss-up.
Keeping your own personal space on these crowded freeways, really takes it's toll on the gas gauge. That's why I love the canyons, out here. No traffic.
TIP for you SF Valley guys.
Oxnard & Hazeltine,
Gas4Less.
$1.85 regular,
$2.05 preminum 92 octane
Yesterday 6/01
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
It could be, for the few extra pennies, invested, it worth it.
Yes, gas prices still hurt, alot.
THE PLUS SIDE IS what it does to our engines.
I'll bet, they are "cleaner" inside, too.
How it affects milage? I would say, it's a Toss-up.
Keeping your own personal space on these crowded freeways, really takes it's toll on the gas gauge. That's why I love the canyons, out here. No traffic.
TIP for you SF Valley guys.
Oxnard & Hazeltine,
Gas4Less.
$1.85 regular,
$2.05 preminum 92 octane
Yesterday 6/01
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Hi Guys,
just bought my very own Firebird 1989 V6 2.8L and am starting to get used to it. I live in the Netherlands (Europe) and must say its different from driving an European car.
Anyway all your remarks about mpg etc etc made me wonder what that exactly means in liters. I bought my car under the impression that it drives about 13.5 kilometers a liter, however i fear that my gauge will tell me something different pritty soon. Can anyone tell me his/her experience and how many kilometers its doing a liter. All i know is that 1 mile = 1.6 km but the conversersion from mp3, i'm not so sure.
I hope anyone can tell me because fuel prices are sky high around here and i don't think gass is well solution.
info:
Pontiac Firebird 1989 T-Top
V6 2.8L
Everything in original condition
just bought my very own Firebird 1989 V6 2.8L and am starting to get used to it. I live in the Netherlands (Europe) and must say its different from driving an European car.
Anyway all your remarks about mpg etc etc made me wonder what that exactly means in liters. I bought my car under the impression that it drives about 13.5 kilometers a liter, however i fear that my gauge will tell me something different pritty soon. Can anyone tell me his/her experience and how many kilometers its doing a liter. All i know is that 1 mile = 1.6 km but the conversersion from mp3, i'm not so sure.
I hope anyone can tell me because fuel prices are sky high around here and i don't think gass is well solution.
info:
Pontiac Firebird 1989 T-Top
V6 2.8L
Everything in original condition
Supreme Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
From: UCIrvine or SFV, CA
Car: 1999 Pontiac Trans Am
Engine: LS1 - 346 ci
Transmission: 4L60E
i saw $1.79 for regular @ the exxon in valencia, but its kinda far. costco was $1.88. damn clean air fuel requirements. we spend a helluva lot more for a gallon and it doesn't even last as long.
------------------
Stock 2.8 MPFI auto w/ Flowmaster ?? Series (dunno what my dad put in), More to come......
New Pioneer Head Unit
Targa E-910 7-Band Equalizer w/ crossover
2x 10" Pioneer subs powered by 300 Watt Jensen amp
2- 6x9" Pioneer (rear)
More to come..... (hey, i dont got a job yet)
------------------
Stock 2.8 MPFI auto w/ Flowmaster ?? Series (dunno what my dad put in), More to come......
New Pioneer Head Unit
Targa E-910 7-Band Equalizer w/ crossover
2x 10" Pioneer subs powered by 300 Watt Jensen amp
2- 6x9" Pioneer (rear)
More to come..... (hey, i dont got a job yet)
Jason, I promise you when I was through the gas pump said 15.828.....I guess I was just runnin on fumes. That is after topping it out, so....unless the filler neck holds around .4 gallons, the tank HAS to be bigger.
You poor people and you clean air fuel... the Wawa down the street from me puts absolutly nothing in thier gas. I was behind a -heavily- modded 69 Camaro about a month ago filling up (had exhaust dumps an everything, was probably on his way to Englishtown)... Not to mention the cheapest gas in the nation ($1.54 for regular I believe, I'll look next time I pass).
Don't get me wrong... I don't wanna be sucking down sh*tty air either, but I don't wanna pay a fortune for sh*tty gas.
------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.
Mods:
Removed air baffles, mandrel bent cat-back pipes (but stock replacment muffler, Dynomax Turbo and Catco converter are on thier way)
Don't get me wrong... I don't wanna be sucking down sh*tty air either, but I don't wanna pay a fortune for sh*tty gas.
------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.
Mods:
Removed air baffles, mandrel bent cat-back pipes (but stock replacment muffler, Dynomax Turbo and Catco converter are on thier way)
For the conversion, seek out some guys from the GWN or Canada.
You have a T-Top in the Netherlands?
Are the babes like we hear?
Or, any of them going with you T TOPLESS??
Way cool outstanding ride in your area!
We may have what some consider $hitty gas, but, atleast it's not smelly like the dumps over by Newark along the Freeway.
Lots of great memories of Summernationals Englishtown in 1972.
Lots of good memories of the shore.
Lots of drinking in Trenton
And BRUCCCCCCCEEEEEEE!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
You have a T-Top in the Netherlands?
Are the babes like we hear?
Or, any of them going with you T TOPLESS??
Way cool outstanding ride in your area!
We may have what some consider $hitty gas, but, atleast it's not smelly like the dumps over by Newark along the Freeway.
Lots of great memories of Summernationals Englishtown in 1972.
Lots of good memories of the shore.
Lots of drinking in Trenton
And BRUCCCCCCCEEEEEEE!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver, BC
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Questor:
Anyway all your remarks about mpg etc etc made me wonder what that exactly means in liters. I bought my car under the impression that it drives about 13.5 kilometers a liter, however i fear that my gauge will tell me something different pritty soon. Can anyone tell me his/her experience and how many kilometers its doing a liter. All i know is that 1 mile = 1.6 km but the conversersion from mp3, i'm not so sure.
</font>
Anyway all your remarks about mpg etc etc made me wonder what that exactly means in liters. I bought my car under the impression that it drives about 13.5 kilometers a liter, however i fear that my gauge will tell me something different pritty soon. Can anyone tell me his/her experience and how many kilometers its doing a liter. All i know is that 1 mile = 1.6 km but the conversersion from mp3, i'm not so sure.
</font>
------------------
87 Camaro Sport Coupe
2.8L Auto, MSD Coil, Crane Cams 8.0mm wires, AC Rapidfires, K&N Filters, Brakes 100%
Z28 Hood and Rims
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,937
Likes: 0
From: Moorpark
Car: 1991 CAMARO 1968 FIREBIRD
Engine: CAMARO 3.1L FIREBIRD 455
Transmission: CAMARO 700R4 FIREBIRD TH-400
i ran my car empty before and when i filled it up at the station i put 16 gallons in it . From what i have herd GM cars have a small reserve of gas in the tank.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KED85:
We may have what some consider $hitty gas, but, atleast it's not smelly like the dumps over by Newark along the Freeway.
</font>
We may have what some consider $hitty gas, but, atleast it's not smelly like the dumps over by Newark along the Freeway.
</font>
------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.
Mods:
Removed air baffles, mandrel bent cat-back pipes (but stock replacment muffler, Dynomax Turbo and Catco converter are on thier way)
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