I'm baaaack. Funny thing is, my 3.4 still won't run... heh.
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 185
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From: Spotsylvania, Va.
I'm baaaack. Funny thing is, my 3.4 still won't run... heh.
How has everyone been? I know half of you probably don't even remember me. Well, I just graduated high school, my parents gave me their '93 Cougar XR-7, and the Camaro is now an un-insured project car. I just got to thinking about it too. I have a feeling that my dad may have gotten the 3.4 out of an S-10 if they even put them in there. I'm not sure if they did, but it's another factor in why it just won't run. Different cams went into the truck motors, which could be screwing with my computer. I don't know.
However, another guess is that the oversized 3.4 injectors are dumping too much fuel into the motor. Which would explain why the catalytic converter was burning up. I don't know... maybe I'm just beating a dead horse with this one.
Either way, now that I've had the tech part of the post, anyone that wants my car can take it home for $800...
However, another guess is that the oversized 3.4 injectors are dumping too much fuel into the motor. Which would explain why the catalytic converter was burning up. I don't know... maybe I'm just beating a dead horse with this one.
Either way, now that I've had the tech part of the post, anyone that wants my car can take it home for $800...
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
WAIT A MINUTE!!!!
No way your car is dead!!
The injectors don't hurt the swap
Neither will the cam.
Something is going on and ya gotta problem solve it.
That's why ya keep it stock to problem solve then play with it after ya got it running.
You did keep it all "stock" during the swap, it could be many items. Start with the usual (Fuel, Air, Spark) and let us know!
I've been there and it's "FUN
" to learn how simple it can be.
NO, 3.4 were NOT in S-10 Blazers.
Check CRANKING compression!!
That's was the reason why I could not start mine, all the valves were open!
THAT'S WHY I SAID IN MY SWAP THREAD, USE A COMPRESSION GAUGE TO ADJUST VALVES DURING THE SWAP. THOSE VALVES/LIFTERS ARE REAL PICKY AND I HAD TO TEAR APART THE WHOLE TOP INTAKE TO GET TO THE VALVES TO READJUST THEM AFTER MY HERION ADDICTED MECHANIC FRIEND SAID, "OH DO IT THIS WAY, IT'S EASY!"
YEAH, that way works on small block chevies, those lifters work better doing the adjsutment by feel.
BUT I HAVE DISCOVERED THAT THE V-6 DO NOT LIKE THE VALVE ADJUSTMENT THAT WAY! Like after three engine swaps. How do you think I know the compression readings? I did the compression valve adjustment, works 100% always and PERFECT!!
What ya gotta do is get a compression guage, and the SPARK PLUG FITTING FOR THE THREADS OF THE SPARK PLUG and crank over the engine and check your compression.
I will bet that you have no compression in the cylinders.
TRY IT!
That is your problem.
Others may laugh, but, I think I am correct!
Besides, I'd buy your car in heartbeat, right now!
I can use a 3.4 block!! REAL BAD!!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
No way your car is dead!!
The injectors don't hurt the swap
Neither will the cam.
Something is going on and ya gotta problem solve it.
That's why ya keep it stock to problem solve then play with it after ya got it running.
You did keep it all "stock" during the swap, it could be many items. Start with the usual (Fuel, Air, Spark) and let us know!
I've been there and it's "FUN
" to learn how simple it can be.NO, 3.4 were NOT in S-10 Blazers.
Check CRANKING compression!!
That's was the reason why I could not start mine, all the valves were open!
THAT'S WHY I SAID IN MY SWAP THREAD, USE A COMPRESSION GAUGE TO ADJUST VALVES DURING THE SWAP. THOSE VALVES/LIFTERS ARE REAL PICKY AND I HAD TO TEAR APART THE WHOLE TOP INTAKE TO GET TO THE VALVES TO READJUST THEM AFTER MY HERION ADDICTED MECHANIC FRIEND SAID, "OH DO IT THIS WAY, IT'S EASY!"
YEAH, that way works on small block chevies, those lifters work better doing the adjsutment by feel.
BUT I HAVE DISCOVERED THAT THE V-6 DO NOT LIKE THE VALVE ADJUSTMENT THAT WAY! Like after three engine swaps. How do you think I know the compression readings? I did the compression valve adjustment, works 100% always and PERFECT!!
What ya gotta do is get a compression guage, and the SPARK PLUG FITTING FOR THE THREADS OF THE SPARK PLUG and crank over the engine and check your compression.
I will bet that you have no compression in the cylinders.
TRY IT!
That is your problem.
Others may laugh, but, I think I am correct!
Besides, I'd buy your car in heartbeat, right now!
I can use a 3.4 block!! REAL BAD!!
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,414
Likes: 6
From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
I don't think it's a cam issue; you should still be able to get the car to run. It doesn't start, right? Check the fuel pressure.. and is the gas old (and dead)?
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: Spotsylvania, Va.
You know... now that I think about it, the gas has been in there since last March... I suppose that could be a major problem. It's got fuel pressure, and we didn't even touch the lifters or rocker arms when we did the swap. So I honestly don't think it's a valve train problem. I don't know. I guess I need to get my un-motivated butt up to do it.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,414
Likes: 6
From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
As in, March of 2000? Yeah man, get some new gas in there!! Change the fuel filter, too. When I totalled my Firebird in May '96, the car sat for a month until I had the cash to have the frames swapped. When I put my car back together, the thing wouldn't start... I had a "horror vision" of putting the wiring harness in all wrong. My dad suggested I put some new gas in. I had 1/4 tank when I wrecked it, the gas only sat for a month. I made a few trips to the gas station.. I think 3 trips, and our gascan holds 2.5 gallons, so that's 7.5 new gallons of gas. I tried the key again, and the car almost caught... a few more cranks and it roared to life! (I also threw a smokescreen over my neighborhood; I had squirted oil into the spark plug holes before starting the motor!)
Definately throw some new gas in there... drain the tank if you have to. I'd say to hot-wire the fuel pump so it pumps the old gas out- but you don't want to run that fuel pump dry. When pumps run dry, they burn up- and you'll be replacing a pump. If my gas sat for a month and turned bad, yours must really be shot!
Ah- you could hot-wire the pump to run, but put your key "on", and watch the gas gauge. When you get near 1/4 tank, or a bit below, kill the fuel pump. That way you wouldn't have to siphon a ton out... the fuel filler neck points right at the fuel level sending unit; I don't know if a siphon hose could make it past the sending tubes and into the tank. Like I said, this is how I drained my tank both times I changed the fuel pump. Remove the filter, and put a foot-long (or so) piece of scrap heater hose on the fuel filter's "inlet", from the tank. Point the hose into a large fuel can.. you might have to turn the can on its side. (Be Careful not to drop any wrenches (sparks), or have any light bulbs nearby, or extension cords, or cigarettes, or firecrackers...) Then wire the pump to the battery and let it hum away. It won't take too long; when your car's running, excess fuel is returned to the tank thru the fuel pressure regulator (and fuel return line). The engine doesn't use all the gas the pump can supply. But, this method won't return any excess fuel; it'll pump all the gas out. Just don't let the pump run dry! Hope this helps; it'd be a shame to sell the car after all your work.
Oh yeah- DO THIS OUTSIDE!
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
[This message has been edited by TomP (edited August 08, 2001).]
Definately throw some new gas in there... drain the tank if you have to. I'd say to hot-wire the fuel pump so it pumps the old gas out- but you don't want to run that fuel pump dry. When pumps run dry, they burn up- and you'll be replacing a pump. If my gas sat for a month and turned bad, yours must really be shot!
Ah- you could hot-wire the pump to run, but put your key "on", and watch the gas gauge. When you get near 1/4 tank, or a bit below, kill the fuel pump. That way you wouldn't have to siphon a ton out... the fuel filler neck points right at the fuel level sending unit; I don't know if a siphon hose could make it past the sending tubes and into the tank. Like I said, this is how I drained my tank both times I changed the fuel pump. Remove the filter, and put a foot-long (or so) piece of scrap heater hose on the fuel filter's "inlet", from the tank. Point the hose into a large fuel can.. you might have to turn the can on its side. (Be Careful not to drop any wrenches (sparks), or have any light bulbs nearby, or extension cords, or cigarettes, or firecrackers...) Then wire the pump to the battery and let it hum away. It won't take too long; when your car's running, excess fuel is returned to the tank thru the fuel pressure regulator (and fuel return line). The engine doesn't use all the gas the pump can supply. But, this method won't return any excess fuel; it'll pump all the gas out. Just don't let the pump run dry! Hope this helps; it'd be a shame to sell the car after all your work.
Oh yeah- DO THIS OUTSIDE!
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
[This message has been edited by TomP (edited August 08, 2001).]
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Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
Tom has a good point.
But, borrow a compression tester to see what's going on, too.
Because,
NO COMPRESSION, NO START!
You'll need a battery charger for this job now. Go borrow one, too.
A REAL ONE, not a tinker toy one.
Don't try killing a car battery from another idiling car for this job. DO it the safest way ya can.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
But, borrow a compression tester to see what's going on, too.
Because,
NO COMPRESSION, NO START!
You'll need a battery charger for this job now. Go borrow one, too.
A REAL ONE, not a tinker toy one.
Don't try killing a car battery from another idiling car for this job. DO it the safest way ya can.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
Hey, atleast you're smart enough to not work on it in the hot sun.
You'll solve it!!
Do a compression test, let us know what's going on in each cylinder.
If you even have less than 100 lbs, the car will run.
Promise.
My S-10 Blazer w/211,500 on the botom end starts right up with on about 100 max to lowest 75 lbs of compression in the cylinders.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
You'll solve it!!
Do a compression test, let us know what's going on in each cylinder.
If you even have less than 100 lbs, the car will run.
Promise.
My S-10 Blazer w/211,500 on the botom end starts right up with on about 100 max to lowest 75 lbs of compression in the cylinders.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: Spotsylvania, Va.
Ok... first things first. I guess I've forgotten my manners. Ked, Tom, nice to see you're still here. I hope you're both still doing well.
Now, as for the "thing" I refer to as my Camaro (as you can tell, I'm not too fond of it anymore). Would the stale gas cause such a dramatic loss of power? The one I described before? We had the timing right, the car running, but it wouldn't rev. It would hesitate dramatically. Plus, when pulling up to stopsigns (it was barely drivable enough to take around the neighborhood), it would want to die. I checked the EGR and it was fine.
Now, as for the "thing" I refer to as my Camaro (as you can tell, I'm not too fond of it anymore). Would the stale gas cause such a dramatic loss of power? The one I described before? We had the timing right, the car running, but it wouldn't rev. It would hesitate dramatically. Plus, when pulling up to stopsigns (it was barely drivable enough to take around the neighborhood), it would want to die. I checked the EGR and it was fine.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
Likes: 0
From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
have ignition module tested. take to autozone, they doit for free. make sure they test it at least 3-4 times in a row. i work there, and have seen somme pass the first time, but when warmed up they fail.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 13,414
Likes: 6
From: Central NJ, USA
Car: 1986 Firebird
Engine: 2.8 V6
Transmission: 700R4
Hehe, yep, doing as well as ever... man, I love this heat! I have to start taking weekdays off to go to the shore...
Dead gas = dead car... even a lawnmower barely runs on year-old gas. (Ever see that gas-stabil stuff, meant to keep gas alive for a year in lawnmowers?) Drain it out, it can't hurt anything; and it seems like you've checked all the rest.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
Dead gas = dead car... even a lawnmower barely runs on year-old gas. (Ever see that gas-stabil stuff, meant to keep gas alive for a year in lawnmowers?) Drain it out, it can't hurt anything; and it seems like you've checked all the rest.
------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 1
From: ****SoCal, USA****
Good going, you did have it running!
Check compression.
Check anything that affects timing.
ANYTHING.
It could be a bad MAS.
When I got mine started, I had abad MAS. It pinged and it died several times coming home from Santa Paula to where I live at the beach.
I was shiiting bricks. My Wife and baby were following me and the sun was fading.
Mine was just a bad MAS unit. Swapped that and no more problems.
Until the tranny died.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Check compression.
Check anything that affects timing.
ANYTHING.
It could be a bad MAS.
When I got mine started, I had abad MAS. It pinged and it died several times coming home from Santa Paula to where I live at the beach.
I was shiiting bricks. My Wife and baby were following me and the sun was fading.
Mine was just a bad MAS unit. Swapped that and no more problems.
Until the tranny died.
------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA
Supreme Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,375
Likes: 0
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Car: '99 Trans Am, '86 Camaro
Engine: LS1, Scrap
Transmission: T56, T5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Stock ZT, 3.42 Open
I had a blast of stupidity. Message deleted.
------------------
'86 Camaro SC, black /w silver racing stripes
2.8l MPFI/700r4 /w special 2nd gear delete option
In search of new v8 engine & transmission, now contemplating t5 swap to get me out of this mess.
Misc Mods: Cut air box, '83 Firebird spoiler.
Performance Parts: MSD coil, Accel 8mm wires, SplitFire plugs, Gabriel hijackers.
Audio Mods: Pioneer DEH-P3000, two 12" Optimus Pro Audio subs in hand-made enclosure each powered by a 260 watt Optimus amp. Working on shaving the box for weight.
My Homepage, with pics.
[This message has been edited by TechSmurf (edited August 11, 2001).]
------------------
'86 Camaro SC, black /w silver racing stripes
2.8l MPFI/700r4 /w special 2nd gear delete option
In search of new v8 engine & transmission, now contemplating t5 swap to get me out of this mess.
Misc Mods: Cut air box, '83 Firebird spoiler.
Performance Parts: MSD coil, Accel 8mm wires, SplitFire plugs, Gabriel hijackers.
Audio Mods: Pioneer DEH-P3000, two 12" Optimus Pro Audio subs in hand-made enclosure each powered by a 260 watt Optimus amp. Working on shaving the box for weight.
My Homepage, with pics.
[This message has been edited by TechSmurf (edited August 11, 2001).]
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