I wanted some more opinions on this because im getting so many mixed answers. Some people are saying if i remove the smog pump, egr, pcv valve etc. ill gain horse power and get better gas mileage, some are saying ill lose both, some that i wont notice anything.

If i remove everything emissions related from my car without touching the ECM what exactly is going to happen? Will it run like crap? Better or worse?

Heres the current condition of my car. Its an 88 base model with a 2.8l v6. And no im not doing an engine swap for a 350 like everyone harasses me to do. I like this motor and i enjoy the decent gas mileage.

 

You can remove the egr air and the pcv. It will not gain you any substantial Hp however. That is a myth in my book. Are you wanting to remove these things to clean up the engine bay?? If you do remove all of that stuff, keep the pcv! I dont see why youd ever want to get rid of that unless you need to mod it for boosted applications.

The car will throw codes if you remove the egr and air system. It also will probly get shady mpgs compared to before. It could be worse or the same. IMO to remove all of that stuff youd want to tune your car. Tell the ecm that you never want to enable those items.

 

How can i tune my ecm? Does this require computer software and adapter to hook it up to the computer?

 

if u want some gains since u have the motor that far apart port the heads, and install a 260 grind cam from delta for 115$'s

those will show much better gains then removing the emssions stuff

if u remove the emiisions stuff and dont tune the ecm it will throw error codes all the time and run like crap

 

If you really are set on removing all the emmisions.... get a moates gp1 chip and adapter kit. If you get that and send me a chip with 2 stamps for shipping in the envelope, ill send the chip back with the emmisions all disabled. Free of charge burning.

 

Yes sir!

 

Heres the kit. If your serious pm me and well get her done.
http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm....html?cPath=64

 

I absolutely will. Anything else you can tune on a stock setup for kicks and giggles?

 

dont forget he has the 302ecm mass air system, so not sure if u use the same adapter

 

Removing the PCV, and EGR will gain you nothing, but an engine that has excessive crankcase pressures and gasses that usually lead to premature failure of seals and gaskets, along with an engine that is more susceptible to pinging under light to moderate acceleration, and a possible loss of mileage, actually a probably loss of mileage. I have only seen benefits of running EGR and PCV, over not running them.

AIR system is debatable. While the theory behind it is a sound theory, I don't completely agree with the need for it.

I've never understood the desire that people have to throw away parts of the car or engine that makes it run or perform better.

 

when i pulled my egr i had 0 gains , and no loss of mileage , if u can get one of these low compression engines to ping even on the cheapest of gas u have something else wrong, like overly advanced timing , or its running super rich or super lean

 

I dont understand whats different about my engine without emissions crap and say a 1st gen v8 which had absolutely no emissions or sensors of any kind. And then for some reason all of a sudden they came out with emissions laws and suddenly car hp and torque stats went way down. The motors didnt change.

A 1969 350 made 295hp and 380ft lbs of torque based on my research. An 86's 350 had 220hp and 320ft lbs of torque...so either they somehow came out with a crappier motor...or emissions standards starved the engine of its true potential...this is what i was brought up to believe so thats why i want to remove all that emissions stuff.

All of that crap to my knowledge and what was told to me is nothing more than to help make a cleaner atmosphere not make the engine more powerful. Over time they have improved the system but its original intention was not to make more power...that i understand anyway. tell me if im wrong.

I dont think race cars have cats or egr valves etc....if your correct in that they add power why dont top fuel dragster use them for example?

And by the way EGR is only one component, there are tons of components to the whole emissions system.

 

The engines produced back in the '60s are very different than what is produced now or even 30 years ago.

The chamber designs, port designs, etc, all have a large influence on how an engine runs, and is what makes the engines different. The '60s engines most certainly did have emissions equipment, most had a PCV system, some had what were called "road tubes" that were simply a tube from the back of the intake manifold, and pointed down to the road, but were long enough to get into the air passing under the car that would create a vacuum at the mouth of the road tube and pull crank case vapors out.The closed PCV system that was used later, improved on this to provide the extraction of crankcase vapors when the vehicle was moving slow and not at all.

The EGR improves engine performance by re-introducing inert gasses to the combustion chamber and filling in the voids that is created in the cylinder filling by high vacuum, which creates hot spots and susceptibility to pinging.

The PCV system can add power, and is why you will find some sort of crankcase evac system on every race car out there. Most usualy use a true vacuum pump or fittings attached to the header collectors, but they serve the same purpose as the PCV system, just done in a different way.

The reason that the '80s engines made less power was not BECAUSE there was emissions equipment added, but because the EPA placed restrictions of the emissions expended from a vehicle that the OEMs didn't know how to get around while maintaining the power output. Also people started realizing that they didn't need huge amounts of power to drive to and from work. Looking at later engines, into the '90s the power output was increased with cleaner tailpipe emissions, which proves that the emissions devices do not reduce power output.

In the end, what's wrong with having cleaner tailpipe emissions?

Look at it a different way. If you add emissions equipment to the '60s engine do you really expect power output to go down?

 

Lets think this in a logical way. the air with smog does pull power to turn the pulley. The cat creates more back pressure from less flow. However the egr valve closes when you deside to get into it, so really that wont hurt you, but the benefit is better mpgs when you arent on it.

 

This will be a debate that will always be in threads.

My 2 cents... I dont see a point in ridding the car of emmisions unless you are removing it for simplicity of the engine bay (cleaner) mainly for racing.

 

I'm removing it because I like simplicity and ya for a cleaner look

 

cleaner look, less weight, less things to go wrong, but if you try to resell it, good luck

 

That depends...anyone looking to buy a 3rd gen is most likely into cars...and they might like that.

 

Yeah but also it depends on where you live I dont have emmitions so I love it but really atleast in CO only farmland has that because the car isn't before 75 when you have to get it checked.

 

Just keep the emisions stuff somewhere in the garage and if you ever sell it, you can put it back on.

 

I just got my EGR working again and found it slightly hurt my fuel milage. Im sure EGR works well for knock suppression and NOX reduction, but I have no use for it anymore. For now it is disabled in the code.

See my thread for details.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ml#post5544877