Thanks for the input. I agree with what you are saying. Actually surprised anyone is still following this thread lol.

This build was more or less a dirty setup. Getting my feet wet so to speak to see if I had what it takes. I am a pretty smart person if I do say so myself. Not trying to be cocky, its just how I am.

All of what you said will pretty much be what goes down with the hybrid build; the real money will be spent on that build, which is why that one may take awhile.

As for the trans, I know I'm not making a whole lot of power, though it is one hell of a potent setup for a 2.8. The rebuild stuff is on the way, all hard parts and wear parts are being replaced, the 3-4 clutch pack flaw is being addressed, Dana is also modifying the transgo shift kit for my purposes. I explained everything to Dana and he has me taken care of. I'm also using my late 700 core as well.

Thanks for the tips though, even being late to the party your input is greatly appreciated.

 

Second theme that seemed to stick out is idle and less so general tuning issues. I have specific things picked out that I may get to later, but in more general terms even though I've done some megasquirt tuning (I've owne 2 megasquirted cars, and tuned multiple cars) and some other tuning (a bunch of different gm ecms, old and newer accel DFI, Haltech, fast, a little bit of holley), a lot of the time reading this I had "what are they doing?" going through my head.

First, where did your HEI settings end up (both to figure out if you've figured it out and possibly give me ideas of other things to try)? It's funny since MS was first designed around a TPI car but it seems like there are tons of different directions for how to set up HEI, few consistent (honestly I haven't been able to figure out a pattern), and much of what I read here, well you might be able to get it to run but not consistently on anything I've tuned...

Secondly, there seemed to be a lot of "it will want this here" discussion where, at least to me reading it I was seeing sort of generic, "it will run like this" settings but not what really works well. Second, tuning often ends up being "start someplace that we know it will run, get it running and then adjust till you give it what it wants. For a while I tried to give engines what theory said they wanted rather than what they actually needed.

I'm pretty sure that this is a large part of you chasing your idle all the time. Yes, you don't have IAC control, and that would help (honestly, you could have a pretty crappy idle tune and then fix it with IAC control. I tend to turn off IAC when tuning idle because of that, and then when you nail down a base idle tune the IAC function and you end up with a bulletproof, perfect new car idle. Even without IAC that idle would be 85-90% as good if you get it right.

So what am I talking about specifically? FORGET about stoich (14.7) at idle, you won't get a nice idle there chasing it manually or as an autotune target. It just doesn't work (and I would argue that there are enough variables there especially when you get to bigger cams, turbos... that I wouldn't entirely trust what you're seeing on a WBO2, BTW, you did try to figure out a reasonable delay for your O2 readings didn't you? Same for your injector dead time? Without those 2 setup you'll be chasing your tail tuning other things).

If you've ever tuned an old school carb idle think of it that way. Don't worry about A/F at all. Lock down your timing (I usually just set a fixed timing in the tune) something like 15-20* (something in the middle of SA curve for the idle range) works well with most engines, set a reasonable idle with the idle set screw, and look at the range on the VE table that it's idling in. Select that whole range and pick a VE that is about average for that range. With the car idling and that whole range selected increase it or decrease it (though I can just about guarantee you'll have to increase it) one step, and then sit and let the idle stabilize for 30 seconds or so. Did it go up or down? If it went up go another step in the same direction, if it went down, well go in the opposite direction. Do this until you have the highest idle. If in doubt choose the next leanest setting just like you would do with a carb.

At that point your idle is probably too high, so go and turn the screw out and try again. Keep doing that till you get your best idle, and don't be suprised if your WBO2 is saying something "crazy" like something in the 12's, even high 11's (If you're running a cat, need to pass emissions or will spend a lot of time idleing and are worried about economy you might want to set it a little leaner but be aware that you'll be going back to chasing your tail getting a nice idle, AND that tail chasing if at all significant will cost you more in economy or emissions then just dealing with the "rich" (not really but according to the WBO2) idle.

You should at this point have a decent idle, if you use autotune then protect it, set a rules to not tune a few hundred rpm above it (depending on how your axes is scaled you might still rarely see it trying to change those ranges).

I also tend to set the target AFR to something slightly higher, typically 13-14, just to get a little bit of economy back if you're sitting and idling warm.

attached is a VE table see the highlighted range that's richer than the surrounding? that's where this engine idles, I think this one likes right around 12... well it likes in the high 11's but left it slightly leaner than it wants. I also attached the target AFRs that that tune has... this is a stock iron headed 305 TBI, really stock, that runs 13.6/100 in the quarter (really, the only thing done to it that makes it any faster is headers) and gets mid 20's mpg in mixed driving and passes emissions (but technically is not legal).

Ignition next

 

Well it seems to like the idle best around 13.5 ish. Anything lower likes to bog down, same with anything over 16.

HEI running dwell set to 2ms. To be honest, alot of the problems I was having was this "new" cardone dizzy. The shaft was bent, which I discovered when I reset the base timing back to 10* from 0*. This just about completely fixed the hard starts.

I have the idle VE cells locked out, and have halted tuning until the rebuilt trans goes in. The trans in it currently slips randomly, goes in neutral randomly, and overall is the 85 700 bastard child version. I have the tune far from optimal, but am not going to waste the effort because the tune will have to be redone almost from the beginning. Im getting 16-20mpg consistently even with an incomplete tune.

But at any rate, keep the tips coming and I will fill in the blanks.

 

I hope you didn't think that I was picking on your "little" 2.8. Honestly, I think that with careful tuning and driving the setup you've built could be run down into the 13's giving a lot of V8's a run for their money. I think that with a few minor changes to the engine/turbo package (still using the parts that you have) and the right converter and a posi (have I mentioned that, besides fixing what is broken I think the biggest improvement that you could make to this thing is a good posi, though unless you get your hands on a used one for cheap and if it's not a DD and going with your doing it on the cheap built style I'd be tempted to mini-spool it, and I know that people will jump all over me for saying that, I daily drove a spooled 3rd gen for 2 years and would do it again, it's much better than the locker in my current 9").

I'm very curious what changes he's making. I've done a few of them on 700r4's and have always been happy with them, I've even gotten a whole season at the drag strip out of one that had some _really_ bad slipping on the 1-2shift by installing one (though at that point when I killed it... well I killed that trans...)

I'm working on a 4L80e right now and I know that there is some controversy about some of the transgo parts for that one, maybe I should give him a call and see if he has any thoughts what I should do with that one (to give you some idea how firmly I believe in putting the right converter I'm cleaning up a JY 4L80e and putting a 3600stall PI with a triple disk lockup clutch... look up what that ran me (It's more expensive then everything else in the car, it's actually very close to what I paid for the car)

 

I'd be surprised if you really have a good usable idle in that wide a range. I'd also be pretty surprised if it's really idling best as lean as 13.5, but it's possible (I've honestly never seen anything that liked idling above about 13, maybe 13.2, you can get it to idle quite a bit closer to stoich, but you typically have to throw a lot of timing at it, and it's hard to keep it stable).

I think you said that you're using an AEM UGEO, if you are you might want to search for some posts I made over that the MS forums (probably the MS extra forum, I don't remember now, probably as "Silverback") about my "issues" with them. Honestly, after what I've seen with them and talking to their engineers I would _never_ buy another. They're just not accurate by design and their output has a tendency to float. If I'm really worried about accuracy I've found that I need to recalibrate it at the beginning of every run, and typically if the ignition is cycled I'll find that the output changes.

A base timing of 0 is rarely a good idea. If something goes wrong it's pretty hard to limp it home like that. I usually go for something a few degrees under the lowest I think that I'll need to go. I think that my current project is using 10 or 12*.

I wish I actually figured out some way to keep track of notes when I set these things up. I have an aftermarket ignition box in mine which changes what works and doesn't work here.

What's "bastard child" about the '85? As far as I've seen 84-86 is good, an 88- is best. 87 is a bastard child with a main valve body and auxiliary.

 

I didn't think you were pickin on the 2.8, lol. Idle SA is 20* it really doesnt like lower than 13, which would be richer than stoich. 13-14 seems to be where the 2.8 likes it, has a crisp idle.

It is a daily driver and im hunting a cheap used posi unit. The open diff is fine for now as im not going to drag race the car. The current trans is just battered. Sometimes the 2-3 is quick, sometimes it lags, sometimes it doesnt shift at all. Same goes for launching; sometimes its lazy and sometimes itll try to blow the tire off.

Im only running 7psi right now. It has a 1998 4l60e converter in it, the one with the woven carbon fiber clutch, lockup almost drops 1000rpm and its a 2500 stall. It is strong; ive locked it up in 3rd at 5-6ish psi and it held, boy did it hold. However its apparently a stock converter. It was the variable slippage converter and works fine with a lockup switch.

Yea its not at 0* base anymore thankfully. Glad it likes to start way better now. As for the WB delay, I honestly didnt touch it, never even looked into it lol. Guess Ill have to do some more research for when I get the rebuilt trans back in and start tuning again.

I know I haven't grasped every aspect of tuning yet, its a quite complicated path, though I have learned a helluva lot throughout the process.

 

Just thought Id add, my 3.1 and the same with the hybrid version idles best at about 13.5-14.5 any higher and it starts to hunt a little but its not terrible. On a hot day it idles leaner, arround 14.5 with no problems. Any lower then 13.0 or so at idle and my plugs start to fowl. I also run the car in open loop and its been that way for 3 going on 4 years now.

I used Idle speed spark compensation (the ecm commands spark advance plus or minus to keep the idle smooth) for a little while but really it didnt help a issue i had a year or so back with a hunting idle. Since then the problem dissipated with the new 3400 top end on it and has never came back.....lol

Words of wisdom told to me a few years back by a tuner, "just give the car what it wants and it will love you for it"

 

Well, my response there is pretty much what I've already said... I'm surprised it wants to idle that lean, but it's possible. I suppose if 2 of you are seeing the same thing with a similar engine it's more common than what i've seen. Good to know.

FWIW, I have no desire to have it idle rich, if you look at the VE target table in that area that I posted I usually start with around 14:1, but I've never seen one that didn't want to go richer from there.

If you read through my VE/idle part, that's exactly what I suggest, just a procedure for figuring it out...

 

Forgive me for saying so, but if stoich is 14.7, then 13.5 is rich. Not as rich as lower, but still rich.

Rich enough to smell gas in the exhaust.

What are your tips for WB delay and injector deadtime?

 

So ignition is a bit easier, but it took me a bit longer because I didn't have an appropriate example sitting around (what I do for ignition for a car without IAC is different then with, and I didn't have an MS tune for one without IAC on my laptop).

In a nutshell, as a whole, where I think that your fuel tables have been too stringent, trying to follow a set AFR, I think that your ignition tables have been too conservative as a whole. The first one attached here is one from an iron headed TPI car. It was initially dialed in NA, both driving around with KS input for the low range and at the track for the mid and high ranges. Initially I ran this car with 2 different curves, a 87 and 92 octane curve, I found that even tough most engines (this one included) have timing curves limited by detonation the difference in what it wanted at light load cruise conditions (think MPG) were minimal, and I found that the car would break up and loose power on either gas up top before I got knock- check out the knock retard at 100kpa and higher rpms, so the end result was that I ditched separate track and street tunes because I found they were unnecessary. You could get _a little_ more aggressive in the light load/middle rpm range, but I didn't see a measurable MPG increase and the tune got more sensitive to gasoline quality (not octane so much), so it wasn't worth it.

(the red and blue "the number was adjusted colors in these don't mean anything, I scaled the axis to make what's going on more obvious, and I didn't like some of the odd steps I had in there).

For the most part, this is a "this is where it's happy and doesn't ping" down low, and "this is where it runs fastest and doesn't ping" up top.

The boosted numbers on this one are not as aggressive (not as tuned), but quite safe, it sees no detonation in this range with decent gas. What hasn't been tested on this one is how much more there is to be gained up top, and if it still needs the retard that it wanted at higher rpms NA with boost. But this is more about idle tuning.

The second screen shot one is what i would do to get the idle under control on a car without IAC. This car idles around 750 warm, so scaled the map upward and added a column below that value (somewhere 100-200rpm below where you want it idling usually works well) and gave it values that are slightly higher than what the regular idle is. Essentially if the idle RPM tries to drop the SA goes up a little and "catches it." almost like giving it a little bit of throttle (to get this to work right you might have to retard the SA slightly in the normal idling column, and some engines respond to a little extra fuel with the increased SA down there, some just the timing is enough).

The circled area is where you'd have to experiment slightly. It could cause some wandering during warm-up or if load conditions suddenly change and it's an easy fix, just flatten the map in the circled area (oh, and the additional SA in the 650rpm column isn't necessary above about 60kpa)

 

On several engines I have tuned in my area (mostly E10 gas) I can get all of them to idle very smoothly around 14.1.14.3 AFR Built and extremely cammed big block Olds, running TBI is about the only exception.

I have actually just playing around got my L28 to idle around 15.6:1 AFR with only a slight hint of chop. More chop than I liked, but I was just messing around to see what I could get away with. This same engine would perk right along at high way speed in the mid 15s to low 16s without issue. Though transition to quick throttle snap would show that a lot of AE was needed, which caused problems at other times, so I ran it a little richer, usually in the mid 14s at cruise.

If your WB is consistently telling you that you need to run a rich AFR (richer than about 14.0:1 using E10 gas) to get a smooth idle, there's one or a few things going on, the WB sensor is old and needs to be replaced, or the controller is failing, there's a mechanical issue with the engine, or there's just something really messed up elsewhere in the tune that needs to be addressed.

 

ive been so busy i havent been keeping up but six is right the engine should idle well into the 15 afrs

and injector deadtime needs to be tuned to each set of inectors the procedure for doing that is in the manual

 

More than one car, more than one WB. My current project has had an old LM-1 and a brand new UGEO (with different sensors installed) on it and both pretty much agree. No gas smell or any other signs of running rich.

It will idle OK with an IAC and the idle control settings tweaked much leaner but I could just about guarantee that none of your examples will idle well with the IAC disabled (he's trying to tune without an IAC).

I spent a couple of minutes looking for it and can't find it right now but I know that there was an MS tuning guide out there that recommended ratios in the range that I was talking about it. DIY Autotune's "How do I get a smooth idle like my stock ECU had?" doesn't go quite as far but does say:
Looks like they also recommend a timing curve like I did but like I said, I usually don't bother with that if I'm using an IAC...

 

If that is in refrence to where I said, "that lean," then I was talking about as lean as you were saying (in other words, leaner than what I was saying), but yes, it is richer than stoich

The Lambda delay I don't have a great answer for, what I did was looked through logs to find transients that should have caused a change, and then looked to see how far down that change was and tweaked the values till autotune gave consistent results (basically once everything was happy it didn't try to change cells much if at all). In my current case my sensor is mounted further down stream than I would like and I ended up increasing the high rpm high load setting a little bit, but the low rpm/light load setting A LOT and then interpolated and tweaked till I got good results.

Injector dead time- there's tons of stuff out there about this (you might be able to find a tested number, be aware that IRL they are not perfectly linear) and can be tested fairly precisely on an injector flow bench (which I have) but I've had better real world results by picking 2 different squirts per cycle/injector staging settings that _should_ deliver the same fuel (like 2/simltanious and 4/alternating), get the car nice and warm and idling well, then swap between the 2 settings while tweaking the dead time setting till you get as little a change in how the car is running (rpm, map, sound...). In my case the few times I've done this I've typically gotten a higher value than the tested value but I've been happier with the results in the way the engine reacted to changing conditions.

 

I guess I should go and tell those engines where the IAC was disabled (while tuning), or that were already closed at idle that they shouldn't idling so well as lean...

No, the IAC does not have a huge influence in this. It does effect the idle, yes, and the stability, yes, otherwise there would be no purpose for it. But that does not negate the fact that a properly tuned engine can idle well much leaner than in the 13s AFR.

Using a rich idle is masking other tuning issues.

 

I'll start worrying about a rich idle when I see fouled plugs, failed emissions test or as inconsistent an idle as my current car had with it's factory ECM (and before you say it, i'm sure everything was working correctly at the time, I'm **** retentive about that kind of thing)

 

Remember my past issue with this? It all came down to injector offsets that I had to call southbay on and send in my 48lbs injectors for them to test so that i could get the proper numbers. IIRC you are the one that told me to do this. After I did that i could lean it out alot more. I remember when it wouldnt idle over 13.5 without surging regulary, but I just choose to keep it near 14.5 now, its not like my car is tuned for mpgs... what are those?

 

Well, if I get the chance I'll shoot a video or datalog an '87 LB9 which is stock besides headers and axle that runs 13.6@100 and gets 24-26mpg mixed driving and runs flawlessly from -3* to 102*F (that's the range it's seen since it was converted). Then I'll shoot one of a supercharged 302 ford in a bigger car that runs/idles almost as well and has run 10s after driving >200miles and getting over 24mpg and then driving home. Both tuned as I suggest.

Well, here is the TA at the dragstrip but the coil wire kept popping off that day (you can hear it popping/misfiring during the burnout, it wouldn't rev over 3400rpm in the burnout box and the coil wire was just sitting loose on top of the coil after that pass. I don't know how it was running at all but it's still fast(ish) for a stock 305...)

 

willexoIX, the other thing about your build that I was wondering about was the intercooler... why did you bother with mounting it in/under the hood (besides possibly the fact that you got it set in your head that was the way you wanted to do it)?

At some point when you go bigger you'll probably go front mount, and you could have just mounted that same intercooler (or possibly 2 of them) in front of the radiator as a front mount. You would have had _less_ volume between the turbo and the engine than most intercooler setups and it would have been more efficient.

Barring that, you have the airflow going backwards. Under hood is a high pressure zone, typically filled by the radiator/front air dam, and there isn't a good way for it to get back out. A fan can't build any measureable pressure, it just moves the air, so it can't fight a pressure buildup under the hood. I'd bet that the fan is only effective when you're sitting still, if you're moving at any significant speed it's probably blocking airflow. I wouldn't be surprised that if you datalogged 20mph fan on and off you'll actually have more airflow with it off.

Can you wire it to be a pusher rather than puller? Yea, it wouldn't cool down as much since it would be using warm radiator air, but I'd bet the whole assembly would be more efficient as a whole (without the scoop), or add a lip to the front edge or mount your scoop backwards and it should create a vacuum over the IC opening and work even better.

 

Small turbo+fmic with more piping = more lag. I have less than 2 feet of charge piping with a 2 inch diameter. The tmic was used cause its what I had, and it wouldnt have mattered anyway with a 50trim wheel. Either way the rate of rise of the intake temp would be rapid. The cowl seal at the rear of the hood is removed, and it made a big difference. Once I put the scoop on it cut the rate of rise drastically and dropped intake temps above 80mph in boost.

As I said, this was a dirty and quick setup. The time and money is going into the hybrid and being coupled with a fmic and a T4 turbo. I size matched the 2.8 combo. 2.8l engine+3l diesel turbo+2 inch charge pipe+small IC=builds boost like a throatpunch. Sure it doesnt have any topend but man is it fun to drive. Cant wait to get my rebuild stuff for the trans.

I took the fan off months ago and wired it up as a pusher in front of my external trans cooler. It comes on with the coolant fan. Works great. It was only used on the ic when sitting still. When I was moving it was always off.

Without the scoop I would have blown the motor up. I shut it down before I hit 130* the first drive. Thats what made me not drive it until I built the scoop; it would have blown without it.

The second build will be more thought out; this build was the learning experience. I didnt expect it to light the streets on fire at 88mph. LOL

 

Real world it doesn't. You're not really running enough pressure to significantly compress the air volume so there is no noticeable change in response adding the 3 or 4 feet of tubing that you'd need to make it happen.

 

I didnt really think it would make a difference, but I figured I'd test the theory anyway. I have another section of 2inch charge pipe; maybe I'll have enough to move it to the front. Hell I already have another stock hood all I have to do is paint it. I hate the scoop anyway...

 

Yeah I went air-water intercooler last year and even though I more than 1/2d the amount of intercooler piping I did not notice a difference in lag. In addition to that, the A-W intercooler was more hassle than it was worth, but I won't get in to that here.

 

Well the size of the intercooler wont let me mount it up front without a bunch of modification, so I'll just wait and get a front mount when the hybrid is done or I get a bigger turbo. If not I'll just go meth/alky injection.

 

Just my 2 cents. Don't mask a undersized inter cooler with alky injection. I at one time ran nothing but alky for one whole year(this was dumb i know). I never had a problem but if that alky would have failed my car would have been toast. Since then I have a proper(bigazz) IC and have very solid low IATs with no alky. The best way to set it all up is to have a properly sized IC and then toss on alky for more protection against detonation.

Alky itself will not add HP and it will actually make your car slower at the same boost and timing compared to if you were not running it at all.

If you get into the alky, play with it and don't expect to make the car faster right off the bat. It takes time to dial that stuff in but it does work great. Just remember that if you have to inject a ton of alky or a mix to keep it cool then you may want to get a more expensive set up and get a progressive controller/pump to keep the afrs more steady at all boost levels. The best set up is to have a IC that is sized right and the tune dialed in so that if the alky failed it would not ruin you engine. For example if you would get a 1.5afr drop out of the alky then you are shooting way too much in there.

For me I generally ran 11.7-9 afrs at 14psi without alky and then ran right arround 11 flat with the alky rolling. Daves got my kit now, I wounder if hes using it yet?

Another note....... When I added all that piping for the IC last year, which it was alot compared to when I ran alky only, the spool up did not change. I could not tell the difference in lag at all.

I first got rid of the undersized IC i had in 2012 because I "though" that less piping=faster spool up. That is definitly untrue at least in the set up I had.

Though out my whole experience with turbo lag, my car told me that with the right size turbo, optimal gearing/converter, and the BIGGEST part..the tune, will help it not be laggy outta the hole.

 

Alcohol will build more power, hands down, Im running straight denatured(eth/meth mix) and was able to make a lot more boost than with the crappy 91 octane fuel out here. Its more risky to make power with straight mix since the engine is relying on the alky system to replace some of the fuel, just roughly dialing in my kit I reduced the fueling quite a bit, don't have exact numbers, though. A friend of mine has a Hot-Air Turbo Buick that just laid down an 11.92 on E85, no intercooling at all. He has enough power right now to crank off probably 11.60's, and not a touch of knock. He hasn't even turned on his alky kit yet, running 21 psi boost. Pretty sick for a HA car.

 

nope not using it yet , cars still in pieces


right now im working on another project just picked this up

going to turbocharge it and turn it into something like this




though i should have mostly done this weekend

 

I didn't mean to say that alky won't build more power. I'm just saying that if you were to hook up a alky kit and just run it on the previous tune...that the car would be slower because of the volume of alky you're injecting is taking away the volume of air(richer)

I'd love to do the e85 conversion one day. That would make a world of a difference.

 

I gotcha now. Yeah a lot of people around here are switching to E85

 

I might get lucky. Might be picking this up for free.

 

I wanted to the the OP know just because there is so many people that ask me how much HP did I gain running alky injection...so I tell them. well I ran Xpsi more boost and X more timing and I got this much faster, but I usually loose them after I said alky alone doesn't gain HP on its own.. It just allows you to run more boost and timing and have greater detonation resistance.

When you gonna put that on the GN or switch to 85>?

 

Nice! Free is always good!

 

Always. Might have to trim the inlet and outlet, and maybe some plastic in the bumper. Might just do what Orr (Justin) did to his grille and cut the center out as well as the center of the bumper support.

 

thats what i did , if u have acess to a plasma cutter its super friggen easy to cut , if not a citoff wheel will work just fine

 

Metabo ftw!!

 

I used to have a nose with that already cut out. I tossed it a couple months ago.

 

Lol. Just my luck haha.

Got the rest of the trans torn down using a steering wheel lock plate remover and threaded rod for the piston in the case, and the lock plate remover, small piece of angle iron, and two long vise grip clamps for the piston in the input drum. Who needs special tools? Lol.

Now to clean valve by valve in the vb, and swap springs for the parts of the shift kit in the vb. Separator plate is predrilled. Then its on to the pump. And all the seals, bushings, etc.

Taking my time with this one. Got the tech dvd from Dana and his instructions, plus the ATSG book to go with it.

 

Awsome man. Cant wait to see a spring video of the car back in motion!

 

Im still daily driving it lol. Hoping I can get out to Orlando sunday to pick some stuff up.

 

Didnt get all the goodies, but got some of them. 3" bullets and 3" pipe and fan thanks to rubberducky. New motor mounts, spark plugs, more black Plastidip, lens tint.

The intercooler is BEAST. Its so stout its gotta weigh close to 8 pounds. MP Performance made it. It "apparently" came off a supra. With the crap I cleaned out of it the turbo behind this thing blew the seals big time. I used purple power, then brake clean, then AC flush, then hosed it out and blew it out with compressed air. Thing is spotless inside. Outlets are 2.25. Ill be cutting the center of the grille section of the bumper cover like Orr did.

Last but not least the transmission. Working on it a little here and there. Valve body is done. Case is cleaned off and out. Finally picked up some decent snap ring pliers to get the last piston out of the case then I can start on assembly. Also got a set of master feelers .0015-.025. Everything has been cleaned thoroughly and checked. Taking my time with it cause there is no rush; unless my heavy foot takes out the weak transplant in the car now lol.

 

Good use for the 3.4 huh? Laptop holder for the trans rebuild, lol.

I can't believe I am already putting the trans back together. I haven't really spent alot of time on it either.

 

Pic

 

Well now I wait for a snap ring to continue. Shouldn't be long before this trans is being swapped back in.

All clearances so far check out. Wear areas aren't out of tolerances. Not nearly as much wear as I expected. Suprisingly the vast majority of the trans didnt look very worn at all, clutches and steels aside...

Hopefully at the same time Ill have the front mount intercooler installed, then I can give it a little more boost lol. I'm only kickin around at 7psi. Faster than a new BMW, slipping trans and all. LOL.

 

So I'm learning alot about the 700r4 throughout the rebuild. The 86/87 core I have in the car, felt like it would go into neutral in 3rd at WOT at around 110. Turns out it and wasnt neutral, it was trying to downshift to 2nd and cooking the band. I've narrowed It down to the spring on the line bias valve. I also now understand why a stronger spring was installed on the line bias valve in the trans I am rebuilding; makes it harder to get that 3-2 downshift alleviating that problem.

The current trans now slips in second at anything over half pedal. 1st and 3rd are still good. Looks like I get to baby this thing till I get this snap ring and governor gear and can finish the rebuild. Then Ill have to yank the other one out and pull the vette servo, boost valves and pan to put into the rebuilt trans. Then Ill need to rent the trans pressure gauge from work and double check everything.

In the beginning I was intimidated by rebuilding a 700; now, not so much. To me, its really easy, just follow the order to a T and use common sense. If it looks broke, replace it. If its not within spec, replace it. One little thing can undermine a trans rebuild, so attention to detail is key.

Kill list with the slipping trans.
Older V12 Jaguar
4.3 S10
New BMW (barely)

 

Got the snap ring, running out in the morning to grab the torrington bearing, waiting on the governor gear replacement to come.

Ill have this thing together before work tomorrow. Already have all the clutches and steels for the input drum pre stacked just need to soak. Put it back together without the pump seal and input shaft seals and check endplay.

Hopefully Ill get 2 days off in a row to swap it back in in the next couple weeks. I know I can do it in one but I'm planning ahead just incase.

 

Just gotta put the car up and pull select few parts off the other trans. Install the drop springs and the new motor mounts and torque arm mount and put it back down.

I have a 2.72 (IIRC) rear that I'm going to turn two wheel peel before I put it in the car.

I have grown quite fond of the feeling of the high stall and spool of the turbo at the launch. The way it rolls into it at only 6~psi is impressive.

I need a go-pro.

 

Yea work on the rear end next. You'll really enjoy the car alot more. The ole peg leg is embarrassing IMO...lol

It was the best upgrade i ever did to the car. Higher gears (3.73) and a LSD out back. Its a ton funner to be able to play with posi.

 

I figure the taller gearing wont be too bad with the turbo. And add to the top end a little; I want more gear to wind out.

Plus I figure it'll spin a little less off the line. If the tires are hot, they grab.

Got the intrax drop springs in. Re used the isolators for now to see where the ride height winds up. I can always take them out later. Also put the control arms in the bottom lcarb hole.

Lots of hours coming up so I'll be able to buy the couplers needed to run the piping for the front mount intercooler. Also a single to dual 3 inch split and dual 3 inch to single 4 inch collector, to a turndown at the rear axle. I already have the 3 inch pipe and 3 inch bullets. Thats going to be used with a T4 and 3 inch downpipe in the future.

 

So the new Kia Optima Turbo is supposed to have ~280HP. I know its FWD, but even with the slipping trans up to 80mph from a launch, I had 3/4 a car length lead then we backed off.

Is it really close to that high of a number at 7 psi?

Looks like I get Friday and Saturday off to swap this trans out and do the mounts. By then I will have the on car adjustable PHB too

26 1/4" in the front and 26 3/4" in the rear. I'll post a pic to this thread soon but you can find the pics on the last page of the "Tampa" thread in the "Southeast Region" Subforum.

 

Funny thing about new cars...I laugh on the amount of hp new cars make and how fast they actually are. My good friend has a 2014 mustang gt. so it has 420hp stock and only can manage 13.0 1/4 mile passes. To think it also weights almost 3800 lbs race weight. with all the safety features and added weight it just makes me laugh that it takes a 400+ hp car to run low 13s. I would bet money that back when. I ran solid low 13 I Mabey had 300-325 hp at the very most and had completly stock suspension which is ancient compared to that 2014 mustang.