So i was driving back from st augustine to jax on christmas eve and on 295 i was going about 80 when i noticed i was losing speed an power so i got into the right lane and petal to the floor was only pushing 55-60 mph when i got off the exit my car starting to die so i pushed on the gas to bring her back to life an thats when a shitload of white smoke came from under the hood and out the exhaust...i got her towed an i just got off the phone with the auto shop my heads are blown and he says i need a new short block he also says that it would be cheaper to just get a whole new motor and that he wont charge me for leaving it there and he will look out for some engines for me.. nice guy...anyways i was wondering what you guys input would be. Would this be a good time to make a hybrid? Should i just drop a new used 2.8 in? Should i sell the car (really would only do this as a last resort i love my car ): I have two weeks to get this **** straight because i am a delivery driver for dominos and can use my sisters car for 2 weeks while shes on christmas vacation...any input would be great thanks guys...

 

Forgot to mention i only have $347 saved up

 

Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place...

With the little bit of money you have saved, a straight drop in engine would be best, and I would be REALLY surprised if you could pull that off, even if you did the swap yourself.

A hybrid will take a lot more dough and time to accomplish, and is best done when you don't have a short time frame to do it.

 

Sounds like your best and cheapest bet, is to borrow some cash and put a used long block in it. You overheated the engine (lack of power) and then it finally blew up (white smoke everywhere) In the business, we call that grenading the motor.

 

dont sound grenaded, just sounds like the cat got clogged and over heated, if it was me, i would go get the car and pull the heads and oil pan ... if you were not running up at 260 deg or more for long the chance you need a new block is going to be slim ... good chance you can get some used heads and gaskets and be back on the road in no time ... unless you were hearing the rods knocking or you can see a crack in the block

 

i wonder if this guys motor is any good or will work?
http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pts/4257613569.html

 

The heads, or head gaskets, are blown? Why do you need a new short block if the heads or gaskets are blown? The short block is the lower end, not the top end. I was wondering about the converter as well. I'm not saying you didn't blow the engine........ it sounds like it overheated to me too. I would like some more detail, did the heads or block crack..... what is his reasoning for this repair. Get pics of damage if you can too, if he says the head or block is cracked, either get pics or have him show you it leaking by a like a pressure test or something.

 

In 99% of cases where a head gasket has gone, and just the head gasket was repaired, the bottom end was replaced a few months later, due to coolant getting in the oil and softening the main bearings.

Basically when ever I work on a car that has bad head gasket(s), I just replace the entire long block now, save the headache and extra expense.

 

I agree with 84Z28 on this one. Try and borrow some money and get it fixed right. Having a job will benefit you in paying people back.

 

Im definently gonna contact this guy i actually live in the jax area thanks

 

Good point i need to know exactly what went bad so i could A replace just that or B if its bad enough replace the whole engine

 

Sounds like a guy that runs a shop by me that nobody likes, just sayin..

That guy told someone they needed a motor, made them pay for a motor, then replaced 2 bent valves instead of the motor and sent them on their way. This is why I don't take my car to a garage, although I know that ALL aren't like that. But still, why take the chance? Especially when I can do 95% of repairs in my driveway. But hey that's my opinion.

I do agree that you need much more information from the shop than just what he told you.

 

I call BS... My father's 93 Cavalier had a bad head gasket for a LONG time (I'm literally talking MONTHS if not over a year) before he finally could afford to have it worked on (between financially and the downtime), and the only thing that was wrong with the engine other than the bad gasket was the chambers were pitted. After the machine shop, that engine probably got another 20K on it over the next 4 years before the car was scrapped DUE TO RUST (the engine looked like new inside with about 170K and could still break the tires loose when the car was scrapped).

OP, go to the shop and tell the guy you want to LOOK AT IT FOR YOURSELF. If you're not sure what you're looking at, take pics and post them up. Dollars to donuts this guy is scamming you BIG TIME.
You still need to answer the question of whether the engine seemed to be overheating before you pulled over.

 

How can you call BS on my experience and observations?

Coolant in the oil is a very bad thing, and most people don't notice they have a head gasket problem until many months after the problem has actually started, at which point, the damage is done. I've had ONE engine that survived a head gasket failure, where only the head gasket was replaced, since it was caught very early on.

Besides, you mentioned machine shop, does that mean the bottom end was also rebuilt, as your post would suggest? That changes things. A full rebuild would also be a way to combat the later need to replace the bottom end. I also don't see how your ONE experience could possibly in anyway trump my many experiences over many years.

It's funny how people who are not even close to the situation call scamming straight off. It's not like engines never fail and from the description the OP gave, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more damage than just head gaskets.

 

I agree with Six Shooter on this one. Coolant in the oil is a death milk shake.

 

Im going to go check it out tomorrow they are closed on weekends i will definently take some pics and ask for full details on whats wrong

 

So just left the shop all i got was BS first the owner wasnt there so this other guy is telling me that dennis the owner is the one who knows an he wont be bCk till after new years and i say i need to know whats wrong with it so i can get the parts i NEED my car for work and he says that he doesnt know which mechanic worked on it so then i proceed to ask each mechanic if they worked on it and he comes up to me and says dont bother my technicians all u will get is a bad additude so im just like okay well i need to know whats wrong with my car dammit! And he says that if dennis says i need a new engine then thats what i need so i say that maybe i dont need a new engine i want to know WHATS WRONG DAMMIT! Not oh u need a new engine why? Because u just do **** that! So he goes and says he needs to answer the phone and then after he hangs up i can tell hes stalling to see if il just leave and a mechanic is walking up to the area im in and i ask if he worked on my car yes he did! Then out of nowhere other guy comes up oh r u the one who checked out the firebird? So i ask whats wrong and he says that he doesnt know that oil might be leakin in the heads or something that i need a new engine he doesnt know exactly whats wrong to call the owner he will find me a new engine ok whats the owners number? Just call here ok but hes not here yeah he will be back sometime after new years...so i just got pissed and left...wtf

 

wow dude, you need to get your car out of there ... the guy that worked on it has no clue what is wrong with it, but knows you need a new motor? ... go get that car asap ... do not let him "find" you a new motor, or he will just fix the one that is in it and charge you for another one from what it sounds like ... to me, it sounds like he is trying to scam someone younger that he thinks wouldn't know any better

 

i totally agree. i'd get my car out of there immediatley. dont hesitate or think twice about it. sounds like you ended up at the wrong shop unfortunatly. ask some friends if they can recommend an honest mechanic in your area, or its time to start learning how to do things yourself. could save you a lot of money and headaches over the years?

 

Get your car towed out of there and never go back. If I treated my customers like that, I should expect them to leave. You deserve to be shown exactly what's wrong with your car and to be courteously treated. Anything less is unacceptable and they have failed to earn your business.

 

If you have combustion gases in the cooling system or water in your oil, the heads have to be removed for proper diagnosis. A reasonable shop will charge you a teardown fee (around 2 hours) and will show you the damage to the heads/ head gaskets and or a cracked cylinder wall. (v6 GMs like to crack cylinders)

 

Im gonna have it towed somewhere else tomorrow i cant believe they think il just be like okay go ahead and drop a new engine in here even though u have not given me a reason to but even if i need a new engine i might be okay i have $615 saved up now and hopefully it will allow me to fix my problem and if im lucky let me get a new exhaust too

 

Sorry about the trouble . Sounds to me like you got to a shop that just bs's unfortunately most ppl see a old car and think you'll just agree that it went bad. Always make sure you check all your fluids at least once a week.. Water or coolant in your oil can be caught early and save you tons of money by doing standard checks yourself . Idk what all is wrong with your car , but I do know most likely you shot the heads . I'd do one want person suggested .. Pull them and go from there

 

It does sound like there may be something a miss, but I will say this as someone who has stood on the other side of the counter for much of my life: I have found that in many cases when it seems like someone is not very technical or versed in the subject at hand that it's many times not worth it to explain what the real issue is, because they simply won't understand and is usually followed by "Well can't you fix just that one piece?" Well, yeah, but it requires taking apart all of these items to get to it... Which many people think that it's a scam at that point. I wouldn't have said "I don't know what the problem is", if I was the one working on the vehicle, however. What he may have meant was that he doesn't know what the exact part is that failed, but knows enough from the symptoms found that a new engine is needed. What I mean by that is, assume that there's coolant in the oil, this could come from several reasons, failed head gasket (most likely), cracked head, cracked block, or cracked intake. He may have been in the middle of another job and didn't want to switch tracks with his thoughts on that job, and so went to the easiest answer he knew, that it needs an engine, but doesn't recall or maybe hasn't found the exact failure point yet.

There's also the fact that only one of us in this thread was there, and while I don't believe that he is lying or changing facts, I do believe based on my many many years on this planet that some details have not been transcribed here and most likely not on purpose either. We all miss details or think we heard something different than what was said at times, especially if we are frustrated.

That being said, I would want to get the straight scoop from whoever actually diagnosed the car, but may also mean that the work should be done somewhere else or at least a second diagnosis performed.

You just have to realize that there's more going on than what you see or think you see, so before you go throwing people under the bus, realize this and be patient with whoever you are dealing with and life will be much easier.

Really? The only time I've seen failed cylinders in a 660 was when other parts failed, such as a piston or rod. The cylinder walls on 660s are quite thick and are not prone to cracking, in my experience and observations, just on their own, without other mechanical failures involved.

I've seen SBCs open up a split in cylinders with no other obvious failures, but they also have about 40 years of production, and many, many different iterations and grades of iron used over those decades.

 

As a certified ASE Master Tech for over 20 years and a GM certified tech for over 15 years, I stand by my original statement.

 

i worked in a shop for about 10 years, and i agree with you ... also, i never once worked on someone's car and then told them i dont know what is wrong, but you need a new motor ... if that is what the op was told, he needs to get that car as far away from that shop as he can, imo

 

The 660 is known for certain failures, intake gaskets caused by DEXCool, early (<'85) 2.8s breaking cranks, genIIIs breaking cams, when regular maintenance is not maintained, but this is the first I have heard of any mention of cylinders cracking, without other mechanical failures, or possibly using water, when coolant should have been used in a cold environments. Not using coolant will cause any engine to have a cracked block or cylinder in cold environments though.

 

not see that happen to a car that is driving yet, but not saying that it couldn't

 

If you live in a climate where it gets below 0, you will see it happen, not when the engine is running, obviously, since the water would stay a liquid, but some people have used water in colder climates when the weather was warm and forgot to change it out when the temps started dropping. The water froze and cracked the block. I hear stories like this just about every winter and spring around here, especially when it comes to people's race cars, where they use water in the summer and forget to drain it before winter. They usually only do that once. lol

 

U make a good point although even if this is true i feel that the guy should have been a bit more professional and when he says he doesnt know who worked on my car and wont ask then when i proceed to ask around he says "dont bother my technicians all youll get is a bad attitude" that pissed me off...oh happy new years!

 

Yep, I'd be annoyed as well.

 

didnt the op say this happened while driving?

 

His problem happened while driving... I don't see what that has to do with the secondary discussion. I mentioned the only way I could see a cylinder crack in a 660 without other mechanical failure causing it, since this is the first thread I have read where "it's a known problem".

 

sorry, i must have misunderstood what you were trying to say, thought you were saying you thought his block may have cracked from only water in it ... and on a side note, the only 2.8 i have ever had any dealings with was in a s10 durango and it froze one winter, didnt hurt the block at all (i am sure it was just dumb luck) i just took of the belt and let it run a few min at a time, to let it thaw ... must be a tough block