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Engine has had issues with oil pressure and leaks for several years, among many other annoyances and transformations. Air pump for emissions is gone, 2bbl carb is gone (if anyone wants it let me know) old intake is gone, replaced with Edelbrock intake and 4bbl carb, most sensors replaced with digital sensors.
Driving to work one day, several weeks past usual oil change date, engine speed slows regardless of fuel supplied. Engine stops and locks up completely. Turns out, there's no oil in it AT ALL. Needless to say i freaked out for a minute. Actually took a gallon of water and just threw it on the engine block. Dumped 4 quarts of oil in, let it cool, fired right back up. She's a fighter, if nothing else. Problem though, valves are making very loud clicking sound, and oil pump holds no consistent pressure at all anymore.
My plan: take it apart piece by piece down to the block by taking off the intake, heads, and oil pan. Replace the oil pump, as i'm pretty sure i blew it, clean EVERYTHING, and reassemble.
My questions are as follows...
1. Will cleaning up the valves and such stop the loud clicking and restore the natural order of things in the heads, providing there is no permanent damage to the valves?
2. Can I remove the cylinder heads without removing the camshaft?
3. Since I have the engine out of the vehicle and I have it torn down to such a state, is there anything I should additionally do while I am at this point?
4. What parts do I need for reassembly? I'm assuming at least 2 head gaskets, intake gasket, oil pan gasket. Do I need more?
5. How much time should this take? The intake and oil pan have been removed before so there shouldn't be an issue with parts being rusted or stuck in that section, and there's very little I need to detach to pull the engine, aside from the engine itself.
A few key points...
I know the engine is small and old and should be replaced. I don't have the funds right now. I barely have the funds for new gaskets.
This is a daily driver. I have plans to make it a show car eventually, but we're looking at 5-10 years from now.
I have experience with taking apart most parts on the engine, but I have never taken a cylinder head off on a V6, only a 4 cylinder from a dodge neon.
I do have an engine mount which will make things alot easier, but I am unaware of any other special tools I may need for bolts/springs etc, if applicable. I intend to leave the heads fully assembled and clean them as a singular part, I'm not taking the valves out unless they are permanently damaged etc.
I'll be documenting this journey picture by picture and maybe a video or two as I go. I hope to complete it in two days or less, if possible. My biggest worry: I hope I'm not in over my head. Last time I disassembled an engine to this degree, I took an engine from a plymouth voyager and tried to stick it in a dodge neon. Both were sent to the scrapyard. Please keep me from scrapping my baby. I love my car!!
If you ran it low on oil, there is a good chance that the bearings throughout the engine got worn down as well as the cylinder walls. These engines can be rebuilt if your on a budget but you really have to search around for parts and avoid the autopart stores like auto zone and oreilly as much as possible. Machine work would drive the cost up if you have any damage on the crankshaft or cylinder walls. It may be cheaper finding another engine than repairing what you have. I've seen them go for 200 bucks around where I live.
I know there are some fans of these motors around, but GM discontinued them and only offered the 3.1l as a replacement for a reason. After what happened to this motor, I'd look around for another replacement like firebird904 says.
1. Will cleaning up the valves and such stop the loud clicking and restore the natural order of things in the heads, providing there is no permanent damage to the valves?
-Maybe. Pull the heads off the engine. Remove the valve springs one-at-a-time and only work on one valve at a time. Remove the oil rings from the valve and pull the valve out. Inspect the valve to make sure it isn't bent. Clean all of the carbon off of the valve (a wire wheel work great on this) and relap the valve. O'Reilley sells an inexpensive lapping tool and the compound. This will clean up each valve. Figure 45 minutes per head.
2. Can I remove the cylinder heads without removing the camshaft?
- yes. there is no relationship here. Loosen the rocker arm and pull out the pushrod. Keep them organized/labeled as to which cylinder they came out of. Make sure they are not bent. Rolling them on a hard flat surface like a sheet of glass will tell you if they are bent.
3. Since I have the engine out of the vehicle and I have it torn down to such a state, is there anything I should additionally do while I am at this point?
-Check your rod and main bearings. There is a good chance they are bad if the engine was run without oil. If they are bad, change them.
4. What parts do I need for reassembly? I'm assuming at least 2 head gaskets, intake gasket, oil pan gasket. Do I need more?
-new oil pump, new head bolts, new gaskets, new oil, new antifreeze, new valve seals (see above).
5. How much time should this take? The intake and oil pan have been removed before so there shouldn't be an issue with parts being rusted or stuck in that section, and there's very little I need to detach to pull the engine, aside from the engine itself.
- a couple of days.
1. Will cleaning up the valves and such stop the loud clicking and restore the natural order of things in the heads, providing there is no permanent damage to the valves?
-Maybe. Pull the heads off the engine. Remove the valve springs one-at-a-time and only work on one valve at a time. Remove the oil rings from the valve and pull the valve out. Inspect the valve to make sure it isn't bent. Clean all of the carbon off of the valve (a wire wheel work great on this) and relap the valve. O'Reilley sells an inexpensive lapping tool and the compound. This will clean up each valve. Figure 45 minutes per head.
2. Can I remove the cylinder heads without removing the camshaft?
- yes. there is no relationship here. Loosen the rocker arm and pull out the pushrod. Keep them organized/labeled as to which cylinder they came out of. Make sure they are not bent. Rolling them on a hard flat surface like a sheet of glass will tell you if they are bent.
3. Since I have the engine out of the vehicle and I have it torn down to such a state, is there anything I should additionally do while I am at this point?
-Check your rod and main bearings. There is a good chance they are bad if the engine was run without oil. If they are bad, change them.
4. What parts do I need for reassembly? I'm assuming at least 2 head gaskets, intake gasket, oil pan gasket. Do I need more?
-new oil pump, new head bolts, new gaskets, new oil, new antifreeze, new valve seals (see above).
5. How much time should this take? The intake and oil pan have been removed before so there shouldn't be an issue with parts being rusted or stuck in that section, and there's very little I need to detach to pull the engine, aside from the engine itself.
- a couple of days.
-Mark
I appreciate the help and advice Mark! If the bearings are bad, the price on those shouldn't be terrible, but what all is involved with changing them? I'd like to avoid pulling the crankshaft/camshaft if at all possible, but I understand I may have to..
Originally Posted by rgauder
I know there are some fans of these motors around, but GM discontinued them and only offered the 3.1l as a replacement for a reason. After what happened to this motor, I'd look around for another replacement like firebird904 says.
I'd like to at least attempt a venture at saving it. I won't be buying parts for replacement until I know what the damage is internally. If it's bad enough, the money is better spent on a replacement engine like you've stated. Otherwise, I'd rather simply stick to what she's got, if it can still work. The option of a 3.1 would be great to be honest, but around here, its actually hard to find cheap engines..
If it got starved of oil, the valves aren't going to be your main concern. It's your crankshaft, main and rod bearings, camshaft and bearings. Those are the first things to take the hit when oil is gone.
How sure are you it is valve noise and not a rod knock? My guess would be you've spun a bearing. There is nothing to "clean" from the valves that would make them start clattering like that after this has happened. It's likely your rods banging around the crank.
Please take no offense to this, but it does sound like rebuilding the engine, especially in a couple of days, is over your head. There is a lot that goes into gutting an engine, especially after something like this has happened. You COULD backyard hack it back together by slapping some new gaskets in it and maybe bearings, but it won't last very long. Only way to know 100% is to tear it down, but the cheapest fix would likely be a used engine from another 3rd gen. You can find a 3.1 long block, swap your external parts on it and be off and running, with a bit more power.
If it got starved of oil, the valves aren't going to be your main concern. It's your crankshaft, main and rod bearings, camshaft and bearings. Those are the first things to take the hit when oil is gone.
How sure are you it is valve noise and not a rod knock? My guess would be you've spun a bearing. There is nothing to "clean" from the valves that would make them start clattering like that after this has happened. It's likely your rods banging around the crank.
Please take no offense to this, but it does sound like rebuilding the engine, especially in a couple of days, is over your head. There is a lot that goes into gutting an engine, especially after something like this has happened. You COULD backyard hack it back together by slapping some new gaskets in it and maybe bearings, but it won't last very long. Only way to know 100% is to tear it down, but the cheapest fix would likely be a used engine from another 3rd gen. You can find a 3.1 long block, swap your external parts on it and be off and running, with a bit more power.
No offense taken! I know this is above my level of expertise alone. What I am banking on is the experience of my brother and father, who have both done engine rebuilds before.
What rod do you mean though? Piston rod? if so then i basically have no other choice than to tear it down to a bear block if i want to save what I have, and then it would definitely be best to just get a 3.1 from the later models and drop in. I know I can do something that simple, the only parts I'd need to change would be the intake system since my vehicle is set up for carburetion. At the very least though, I want to tear this engine down, and if its a piston rod, to a bare block, for the experience. If i don't do it then I wont ever get the experience for later use. If I can save it, yay, if not, oh well, at least i learned something.
I'm in full agreement if I can find a 3.1 used laying around then It's going straight in, even if I have to pull it from a junkyard myself. So far though I havent had any luck, and buying a refurbished one from a parts store is out of the question, with a 1400 dollar price tag or higher. I did find one site that manufactures them for 900, but thats still above what I want to put into it for a 6 cyl, I'd rather go another 200 and get a new 350 for it. That's planned but far off in the future. The tranny isnt compatable, and while I have found an adapter plate, when I do go for the 350, it's going to be a standard tranny too. The current tranny is the 700r4.
If I can bank on my father's experience, I feel I can tear it down to a bare block and put it back together successfully. If the bearings are shot, I can replace them. If valves are bent, I've replaced those before in other engines and can do that. If a piston rod is knocking around though, does that mean the piston rod itself is damaged, or something else? I may not succeed, but when i get down to digging around there I want to know what to look for so I know for the future. Like i said, I have no intentions of buying anything for it until I have torn it down to the bare block and confirmed with my father, and you guys, that its even salvageable. I plan to post images as I go for advice. If you all feel its salvageable, I'll try it, with my father's help. If not, I'll go 3.1 hunting.
EDIT: If I do end up looking at swapping in an engine for it, could I go with a 3.4 from the fourth generation camaro, or is that going to be too much for a hassle? I only ask because I recently found a few for sale.
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 05-25-2017 at 01:40 PM.
Reason: Additional Info
Yes I was referring to the connecting (piston) rod.
Definitely tear it down for the experience, no better way to learn it!! Won't cost anything, other than time, to do it either.
If you have bearing damage to the rod or main bearings, you will have to have the crankshaft resurfaced, since that will also be damaged. Make sure you pull the camshaft and look at those too since the cam is further away from the oil pump and may have also suffered damage if it starved.
It's hard to say what all could be damaged once an engine has not had oil. The cylinder walls may get scored/damaged, bearings, crank or cam, the list can go on. Heads likely won't suffer as bad from it. May only have some scoring on the rocker arms or the tips of the valves. If a valve is bent, it would be running bad because it would be stuck open or closed on a cylinder.
You can also get a 3.4 long block, not quite as straight forward of a swap, but still not too bad to do.
Good luck w/ the teardown and remember, we always like pics of that kind of stuff!!!
Alright, it looks like the teardown may begin tonight, ive made time for it and plan to lull the engine at the very least. I tend to work through the wee hours anyway so the night time work will be great. Ill post pics as i go so i can get advice on what to be looking for. I may even order a performance camshaft since it sounds like im pulling it anyway!
EDIT: should I make a new thread for the actual process and images, or keep posting here?
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 05-25-2017 at 04:31 PM.
Reason: Typo
So I've ran into an issue. The nut on the exhaust manifold is stripped, as in totally circular. pretty well attached too, and in a place thats hard to reach. Should I just cut through the bolt rod it attaches to and replace the manifold? I'm not sure I can get the nut off, its just in a very bad spot
EDIT: If i cut through the stud, it looks like i can purchase a replacement stud! Is that a good idea?
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 05-25-2017 at 10:29 PM.
Decided to cut through the manifold studs after finding some in stock at advance. Cheap too. Now i'm not sure if I have all the bolts out for the transmission to block mounting. I found 5 that i took out without problem, needed over 2 feet of extension but still no problem, however there appeared to be an empty hole on the driver side corresponding to a bolt on the passenger side so I feel I may have been missing one, making a total of 6. How many should I be looking for? There is a 7th i can barely feel up top on the drivers side of the distributor area but it also feels as if there are a few wires with it, so i am afraid it might be a sensor. I can't see it well from underneath. Once it is unbolted fromthe transmission though, I just have to remove the hood, and undo the two engine mounts and itll swing clear of the vehicle. This is the last real obstacle to removing it.
Couldn't power through today, 15 hour shift killed me. Though I did look up a good bit of information on the 700r4 transmission and specifically the bellhousing itself. Judging from the images, I feel that the bolt I have found isn't actually part of the transmission, it must be some form of sensor. It looks as if there should be six total bolts, three to each side, parallel to each other on either side, and the bottom bolt for the driver's side was missing, so with my other five bolts I feel it's safe to pull it. I'll give it a go tomorrow.
I found the 6th bolt last night around 10:30, it was buried under some sort of massive dirt cake. Once it was out, the whole assembly began to separate and I knew I was on the right track then. My only concern was when i started to lift the engine out, it seemed to disconnect from the tramny a bit rough. I've looked over the tranny's parts there and everything looks ok, the only thing that threw me was the fact that the rod coming from the tranny that runs through the torque converter doesn't really lock into anything it looks like. I would have expected it to lock into the engine in some way, I didn't think all the torque from my engine was transferred to the transmission through just 3 bolts attaching the flywheel to the torque converter. It was unexpected. Either way, here she is!
Engine up and out! 1:30AM and she's mounted on the stand and ready for cleaning/ teardown!
Next major step will be cleaning out the engine compartment. It looks like 30 years of dirt is waiting for me in there, and I have every intention of cleaning and re-painting the entire area to increase rust protection. Gonna rest today however. It was an incredible rush to finally have it freed and mounted!
Something I thought of while at work here at Advance Auto Parts, what if I could get a cheap crankshaft from the 1990 3.1l engine? Could I swap that in along with new pistons while I am here and basically upgrade to a 3.1 instead of buying one used? I am sefinitely not a fan of used engines around here. Usually you don't know if it will work til you drop it in, and then its too late. Thats actually one of the reasons I am so adamant about rebuilding.
Awesome thread man and good work , there may be a block difference like main bearing difference between your older motor and a later 3.1. Also you would need to match rings and cyclinder wall. There may be nothing wrong with whats in there ?? Id wait and see what youve got.
oh yeah liking the green rocker covers
Glad someone likes the green! It earned the car the nickname of "Goblinoid" for a long time when I first did it. I intend to repaint it black with silver trimmings, such as the rocker covers and carb, rest being black. It needs a severe cleaning first. BUT, I do have good news, father is convinced my only problem really is a messed up connecting rod bearing, and says if that is the case, I only need to drop the oil pan and figure out which one is the culprit. I'm not sure if I should continue to tear it all the way down now, but I want to make sure everything else is in good condition..
Alright, so I've taken the rocker arm covers, the carb, spacer, intake top half and bottom half, and the oil pan off so far, as well as the water pump's main pulley and the alternator. I spun the crank while watching underneath for any weirdness at the connecting rod bearings, I didn't see any out of the ordinary movement... Oil pump hissed like an angry cat so it's definitely working well. Figured out the oil leak while working there, the oil pressure sensor unscrewed itself almost completely! Didn't get to look at the parts up top while rotating, worked on that after checking out the bottom end. Either I don't have the eye for it, or my father was wrong about that connecting rod bearing.. Any other ideas? Here's a few images.
Alternator, valve covers, intake manifold, carb, oil pan are now removed.
Some water got splashed on the underside after the oil pan was off, hoping that doesn't cause too much of an issue.
Here's a look from the top
I can't see much here except a good bit of dirt really.
...and the bottom
Again, these seemed to rotate just fine, when the #1 piston begins to rotate into the cylinder I can feel some very slight vibration on the ratchet as I turn the crankshaft.
Fishing tackle box... aka rebuild lifesaver
Just a pro tip right here, if you ever do any kind of tear down or rebuild or anything involving more than just a few parts, get yourself some fishing tackle boxes, the small kind with modular inserts for compartmentalization. It REALLY helps organise your parts, allowing you to label everything and know just where things go when you go to put it back together!!
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 05-30-2017 at 10:30 PM.
Sounds like a plan. Best part, I won't have to take any of the top end stuff off. I don't know why, but I am just very apprehensive about messing with the heads. I'll pull the crank tomorrow. Honestly, I may just pull the heads too, just so I can say I've done it. I'll have to psych myself up for that one though, but with the crank and pistons out I may not have to. I just realised I can look at the valves from underneath at that point! Thanks again for the continued help! Also, while I am at this point, is there any real way to get rid of that orange corrosion in my coolant areas? I hate it. And all this dirt and grime on the parts needs to come off prior to painting obviously. What is your preferred method of cleaning? I was gonna pressure wash em with degreaser and hot soapy water, blow dry them, then coat em in brake cleaner/carb cleaner to prevent rust. Can the whole thing be painted? Should I avoid gasket surfaces or just polish them off afterwards? What about cylinder walls, just paint everything then hone them? I'd like all my info before i go in.
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 05-30-2017 at 11:43 PM.
You can't reinstall the pistons from the bottom. If you pull them, they have to go back in the top. There's no way to get the rings compressed and slid back in from under. (You will need a piston ring compressor for this)
Also, you can't drop a 3.1 crank in that engine, the main journals in the 82-84 2.8s were smaller.
You're going to need some heavy duty degreaser to clean everything up, then hose it down w/ brake/carb cleaner to get the degreaser off, but that won't help keep it from rusting. It will evaporate quickly and leave you with bare metal, which will flash rust. You need to either paint it or coat it with oil until it gets painted. If you are going to clean and paint it, do it the right way and strip that engine; get all the accessories off, pull the distributor, water pump, etc.
Heads are no big deal to pull off, pulling the pistons and crank is more of a concern than a head IMO.
Good progress so far!
Got any pics of the connecting rod and main bearing surfaces? See if you can get some clear pics of those once the crank is out.
"the only thing that threw me was the fact that the rod coming from the tranny that runs through the torque converter doesn't really lock into anything it looks like. I would have expected it to lock into the engine in some way, I didn't think all the torque from my engine was transferred to the transmission through just 3 bolts attaching the flywheel to the torque converter. It was unexpected."
that "rod" coming from the front of the trans in the trans input shaft. It goes in the the torque converter. As the engine turns the torque converter spins on the flywheel (yes there are only 3 bolts that hold the converter to the flywheel) and the power from the engine gets sent to the trans and ultimately to the rear end and your car moves.
Decided to go with the heads first. Good idea! mostly. The exhaust manifolds are, for lack of a better way of saying, screwed. I got one bolt to turn, one head snapped off, and the third broke two sockets. So i left em on. Id rather not break something, especially considering i have yet to find any replacements for exhaust manifolds on any site.
anyway.. first up, an image of the block! It is free!And now for the heads! Underside only right now.
Right side first, cylinder number 1 on the right And right side, cylinder 2 at the top
So here is what i have found. I ran my finger over each valve underside, and while all of them were relatively smooth, only one of them felt otherwise. The smaller valve on cylinder #2 feels almost rusted! Its not smooth at all, it is actually rough feeling to the touch.
I gave the crank a spin, just to see if i could see anything, and I really didnt notice anything out of the ordinary. The cylinder walls are very smooth, except right at the top millimeter or two. I am assuming thats due to that being part of the actual combustion chamber once the cylinder compresses. I've stopped here because I don't own the proper tool to pull that front thing (cant remember the name) that gets pushed onto the crankshaft. Until I remove it, I cant oull the crank itself, but I can easily remove the pistons here. I would be able to check the connecting rod bearings visually from this point.
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 06-01-2017 at 06:12 PM.
Reason: Typos from using phone
CULPRIT IDENTIFIED
The one on the right was from cylinder 6. Its still in great condition, has a good thick lining of whatever that is, and the gm stamp is even visible. The middle one is from cylinder 3, and as you can see its so shot the metal itself is falling off. The left one is from cylinder 2 and is close to being the same shape as cylinder 3. The others were decent, but nowhere as good as cylinder 6 had. I used it as a baseline for comparison.
The crankshaft is smooth except for cylinder 3. It has a very fine, almost invisible groove worn into it. The others are smooth as glass. Cylinder walls are smooth too, except for where the combustion chamber would be, and a little on the bottoms where the piston doesnt touch.
So, here is my gameplan.
1. Order new connecting rod bearings, all cylinders.
2. Determine the value of replacing any of the valves.
3. Clean all surfaces and give it a good paintjob.
4. Polish all gasket surfaces
5. Hone the cylinder walls to get rid of deposits? Would like a second opinion on that one.
6. Order new gaskets for everything
7. Reassemble and, if all goes well, head right down the road once more.
Honestly, your valves don't look like there's anything wrong with them. To save money, I'd leave them. There may be some carbon build up, but nothing a wire brush won't clean up. If you do anything w/ the valves, you'll need to get the valve seats on the heads done too, to make sure they seal up correctly. You will need to have the crankshaft looked at before you buy bearings. It may just need a polish, or it may need to be ground. Get that checked before ordering any parts.
Is there a cross hatch still noticeable on the cylinder walls or do they look like they have vertical lines on them?
Also, what do the other side of the bearings look like? That's where the contact surfaces are. What to the crank journals look like for those affected cylinders?
brettr81: Since he's trying to keep this as cheap as possible, a 3.4 swap would end up costing him more money due to this being a carbed engine. He will have to buy some sort of aftermarket inline fuel pump since the 3.4 block has no way to mount the pump. Plus all the little additional things that always come up with swapping a 3.4, there's always something lol.
You are looking at the wrong side of the bearing. We need to see the side that goes on the crank itself. I would have the crank checked. The machine shop may be able to polish it and you will be good or it may need to be machined undersize. Get this checked/done before you buy any bearings.
As for the heads, you have a couple of things you can do that are cheap. Wire-brush or wire-wheel the carbon off of the valve pocket. Change the valve seals. Re-lap the valves to make sure they seat perfectly.
You can buy a lapping tool at O'Reillys for about $7.00 and I think the compound is about $5.00.
They will rent you a valve spring compressor so you can get the springs off so you can a) lap the valves and b) change the seals.
I should've shown the wear on the underside of the bearings, they are definitely shot trust me, totally worn away, in some places the metal was actually looking like it had melted and been smeared like butter. I actually own a valve spring compressor so im good there, and im picking up one of those suction cup sticks for valve lapping while i am at work today, i just dont know what i am doing from there for the valves. The cylinders have no markings at all, vertical or crosshatch. Nearly smooth as glass. I live next to a machine shop so hes gonna come down and check the crankshaft for me, that way i dont have to pull it but i am grabbing a garmonic balancer puller just in case.
Gonna want to hone the cylinders, and if you can budget it, maybe rings too. If you pop the pistons out, see if the rings move freely in the piston or if they're all gummed up and stuck in place. Big potential for power loss and oil consumption there.
We all have a budget of some sort, just a different numerical figure. You've done a great job so far to say you're new to this. If you want the best possible outcome, completely disassemble, clean, measure, machine and replace whatever is needed. It's cheaper to do it now rather than later. You've done too much work not to. You have to put some type of value on your time and if you don't do this right you may waste a lot of it.
As alwways I appreciate the input! My neighbor is gonna look at the crank once I pull it, and a guy at work is gonna give me a hand assessing the valves. I got some engine assembly lube, some valve grinding compound and the lapping tool, along with some gasket sealant and the harmonic balancer puller today. Unfortunately I'm too worn out to work on it right now, so I plan to start up again tomorrow. One thing I know is this: never work on a project when you are tired. You'll get frustrated easier, screw things up, and its just bad practice all around. Best to take my time and do it right. So tomorrow, the crankshaft comes out!
My only worry is getting it put back into timing properly once its pulled. Up until now I've done my best to avoid pulling the crank or cam, so I wouldn't have to mess with the timing chain and resetting the engine. But if I plan on doing this right I guess I have to muster up the courage and just do it. Any tips on timing, since until now I've never undid the timing relationship between the cam and crank, would be GREATLY appreciated.
Timing set should have alignment marks. On a sbc it's dot to dot for #6 firing, can't say what it is for a 2.8. Undoubtedly if the chain is original it is stretched out and worn out, replace it, they're cheap. Not difficult to get it in time when aligning marks. You will want to replace the cam bearings. I would suggest replacing cam and lifters too, flat tappers are cheap.
Timing set should have alignment marks. On a sbc it's dot to dot for #6 firing, can't say what it is for a 2.8. Undoubtedly if the chain is original it is stretched out and worn out, replace it, they're cheap. Not difficult to get it in time when aligning marks. You will want to replace the cam bearings. I would suggest replacing cam and lifters too, flat tappers are cheap.
You have a really good point there with the chain, i should check that definitely. As for the cam, I've been looking at this for a good year now, I'll just need to check my budget to make sure I can accommodate it. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3790
yes, the are pretty old and rot from behind
Tear it down completely have your machinist look at everything measure bores etc. If it seized it did lots of damage too much work to put it back in to shortcut
Know youre budget ltd and want a V8 but if you dont shortcut too bad you can drive this longer while saving for what you want.
Don't leave paint on the gasket surfaces. You don't want to "polish" the gasket surface either. I always used a right angle die grinder with a 3M disc like the link below to scuff up the gasket surface. Never fails.
Too smooth of a surface (polished) and it can leak. The disc I linked gives it a smooth, but not a polished surface. You will be able to see a non-directional finish it, like swirl marks. I guess the word "scuff" was a bad word to use. It will be smooth to the touch, but won't have a mirror finish like a polish would give.
From what I understand, the gasket has to have something to grip to. Small imperfections to attach and seal into, otherwise it doesn't seal. Kinda like when painting, you want the paint to stick, and you need small imperfections in the sanding surface for it to cling to, thats why you dont polish your part when painting! At least I think.
Well, i pulled the crank, and shockingly the crank bearings themselves are in great shape!! Quite smooth, no grooves, no warping or "smearing" like the connecting rod bearings were. The crank has a groove in ONE journal, which ticks me off because the others are fairly fine. Still gonna run it up to the machine shop to have a look.
I fired up the pressure washer and blasted 30 years of grime off the block, then stuck it in front of a torpedo heater for an hour to dry it off before rust could take hold. I plan on painting it tonight before anything else. The timing chain was VERY loose! Thank you for suggesting I check it.
There are some things I'd like to do to the block, some of which I've already done but some i wish to check with first. I have a cylinder hone which uses stones, and it looks like it connects to a drill. Is that common? I mean, do you hand-hone or do you use a powertool? I dropped some cleaner down inside the antifreeze areas, then hit it with the pressure washer. I'll say this: what came out the drain holes was the color and consistency of diarrhea. It severely needed it. I have scraped and cleaned all surfaces, and gave each seal surfaces a good hit with a wheel meant for removing light rust. It removed the remaining seal material while still giving the gasket surfaces a slight scratched look. It should seal up very well now.
I plan to take a look at the heads and polish the valve surfaces etc and see if they are good for sealing. I will also see if i can pull the exhaust headers off again.. I dont think they will be going anywhere though. As usual, a picture of progress!
She may be old, but she isn't gonna give up so long as I am behind her!
Honing your cylinders without knowing where your cylinders are at currently could be a dangerous thing to do. First off, it's very easy to egg-shape or hour glass your cylinders when honing. The speed you move the drill when honing has a lot to do with it.
Another factor is, what if your cylinders are already out of shape, honing will just make it worse. What if they're close enough to needing to be bored, you'd never know without getting them checked. Honing would just make it worse, making your compression worse too. I'd say either get your block checked or leave it alone. Others may say go to town with it, but I like to know where I'm at before I start removing metal.
sounds like its time to get the micrometer out and check before i do anything then. I'm not wheeling the block up to the machinist when i can check that myself XD but if it's not in the right i'll be taking it up.
You can't check it with a micrometer, you need a dial bore gauge. The micrometer won't get down into the cylinder far enough. You could check it at the very top and maybe the very bottom. When I was doing machine work, we did it in about 9 different spots, 3 near the top, 3 in the middle, and 3 near the bottom (think 12, 4 and 8 o'clock positions). You also need to know what the specs for the cylinders are, your machine shop may be able to tell you that stuff, it's not in a manual.
Machining is not that expensive considering the peace of mind it gives. You need to have them install your cam bearings anyway. I'm hoping you will be replacing them? You've come too far to skimp out now.
05-23-2017, 10:02 PM
