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Another 3.4/3500 project

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Another 3.4/3500 project

Old 02-16-2019, 01:36 PM
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Another 3.4/3500 project

Well, my 2.8l heads leaked out antifreeze/oil one day, but luckily it was in my driveway. My car has been sitting there for the past 4 months after that incident. I have an ls3 block, but I'm slowly building it, plus parts for my build are very expensive.

So for now, Im just gathering parts for a 3.4/3500 build. So far, I have a 3500v6 complete engine from an 06 Malibu. I'll be picking up a 3.4l complete engine from a 94 camaro next week. All this for $350... Not bad. Both engines rotate without effort. My question is, to take advantage of the added power, should I change the rear end, and trans, or would that just be a waste of money? For now, im happy with a 250-275hp build (flywheel). Heck, if i like it that much, ill probably sell my ls3 block, and boost the little bugger in the near future.itll be great to have 350-400hp with some boost, but for now, a n/a 250-275hp build is in the plans.

I have a stock 88 camaro sports coupe, 5 speed, 2.8l mpfi.


The 3500

Last edited by Pyramid_Head; 02-16-2019 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:56 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

I'd think you'd be OK with the rear- but you might want a posi with all that extra power
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:00 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Copy that. Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:50 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

how will you be tuning it? are you swapping the 3500 pistons in ?
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:22 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

I'm not sure yet. I'm sure I'm gonna need high compression to get those numbers. I may just get 3400 pistons from summit, and boost later. As for tuning, haven't decided yet either with mega sqirt, or just a tuned 1227730 pcm, maybe even keep mine and tune that one. I'm still reading up on that.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:31 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

seems to me you need to build for one or the other. NA or turbo. unless you want to use race gas in it with high compression and a turbo.


or unless you don't mind tearing it down again and replacing pistons when you go turbo.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:14 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

I'm just going for na for now. I don't mind tearing down an engine again.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:05 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

With today's technology, and the gen 3 heads there's no need to lower the SCR for a turbo engine... That line of thinking needs to be left in the '70's where it belongs.

The gen 3 heads have a combustion chamber design that is great and preventing detonation, and therefore higher SCR can be used than in the past under the same use conditions, as compared to older combustion chamber designs.

Add in the modern engine control, especially the DIS ignition that can be very accurate in timing and again, engines can be run with higher SCR and not have issues.

Then there's the whole subject of dynamic compression ratio and how cam selection can greatly effect that...

Now, for some personal experience. I have in my car an LX9, that has 9.8:1 SCR, and I've been running about 9 PSIG on it, I'd run more, but I don't have traction as it is... Using 91 octane fuel. I have had it up to 12 PSIG, but backed it off, because traction was even less.

I've also run a Nissan L28 that has an SCR of 8.9:1 and heads that aren't quite as good LX9 heads, and had no issues there either, because I used a GM ECM on it, that is quite capable, a 1227749 (similar to the 1227730), with DIS on that engine. I ran that one at 17 PSIG daily, with the same turbo I have on the LX9 (the L28 head doesn't flow nearly as well as the LX9 heads), and that engine saw 20 PSIG a few times as well. I also ran 91 octane fuel on this engine.

I'm in the process of building a more powerful engine to replace the LX9 (traction issues will also be addressed lol), an LZ9 and I'm increasing the SCR from 9.8:1 to 10.2:1. Why? I want to run double digit SCR and boost, for better off boost throttle response, quicker spool up and because I can.

So if the hybrid proposed in this thread uses 3400 pistons with the LX9 heads that'll be right around 9.3:1 SCR or so, which will work well NA, because the heads flow very well, and will really take to boost, again, because of the head flow.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:33 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Should I just stick with the 3.4l pistons with a 260 cam? I'm aiming for a friendly 91 octane tune.

Last edited by Pyramid_Head; 02-21-2019 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:55 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

ive read that the compression would be like 12.5:1 and that seems high to run boost either way
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:32 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Same here at wot-tech and the 60degree websites. I'll just stick with my previous plan.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:28 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by Pyramid_Head View Post
I'm not sure yet. I'm sure I'm gonna need high compression to get those numbers. I may just get 3400 pistons from summit, and boost later. As for tuning, haven't decided yet either with mega sqirt, or just a tuned 1227730 pcm, maybe even keep mine and tune that one. I'm still reading up on that.

I would use a $59 mask with a 7730ecm. Cheep and easy to use. Can do about anything with it.

I dont know how well a manual trans holds up but if you keep it all motor you will be fine. One wheel peel will get innoying but it will all hold up.

If you go power adder hold on. A turbo 3.4/3500 hybrid can make some significant power when done correctly. 450-500hp.

I think that if you do the hybrid swap first and keep it all motor you will be surprised on how fast it is over a lil ole 2.8l.

I'd use the 3400 pistons.. with the 3500 top end. Itll keep compression up arround 9.5 or so and 9.5-10.5 is about perfect imo for any street care and a turbo as well down the road. DONT use the 3.4l gen 1 pistons with a gen 3 top end unless you are planning to run e85 or 110 etc. I ran 3.4l gen 1 pistons with a 3400 top end at one time. Lots of compression 12.5:1 roughly. A huge cam helped my dynamic compression but still it was a tough tune. And delicate. Did I mention it was also turboed? S366 borg Warner. [email protected] as a best.

I ran 9.6:1 compression on my 3.4/3400 hybrid turbo and it worked perfect. (3400 heads 3400 pistons) 3.4l gen 1 block. Turboed s366 borg Warner [email protected] as a best

There is only so many on here that truly have the experience to get in depth info about the 660 engine and power adders to go with them. Six shooter is one of them! Trust me. I've been there done that and his knowledge is priceless. Sadly I havent seen many of the other 660 gear heads on here much anymore. Especially project 89... hopefully hes still kicking arround.

Last edited by fasteddi; 02-22-2019 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:47 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by WhiskeySierra6 View Post
seems to me you need to build for one or the other. NA or turbo. unless you want to use race gas in it with high compression and a turbo.


or unless you don't mind tearing it down again and replacing pistons when you go turbo.

Not true. With gen 3 heads we can run a solid 9.5-10.5 compression static and still run a medium amount of boost (15-20psi). Of course a good sized cam helps grately. When we get a larger cam we lower the dynamic compression which really is what matters, not static.

If he uses some 3400 pistons, and 3500 heads hell have arround 9.6:1 comp. Not too bad for a street car. With a proper cam with no boost the dcr may be 7.5 or so. Lots of head room. Alot depends on the compression, intake closing, cam info, etc. I would personally get a delta 272 cam though at minimum. Trust me. It's good to 6000 rpm roughly. Just add some better springs and you are good to go. Dont listen to anyone who may say a 260 or so adv. Dur. Is enough for that 3.4 bottom end. Call deltacams and you'll have a cam at the door with lifters for about 130 bucks. Well worth it. The bigger the motor the less that advertised duration effects our engines.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:06 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

I'm reading your old thread. Nice!

http://www.60degreev6.com/vb5/forum/affiliated-website-forums/3x00swap-com/27086-3-1l-3400-hybrid-swap
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:34 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by Pyramid_Head View Post
I'm reading your old thread. Nice!

http://www.60degreev6.com/vb5/forum/affiliated-website-forums/3x00swap-com/27086-3-1l-3400-hybrid-swap
Yeah I have quite a bit of threads back then. I was a die hard for a good 6 or 7 years with these motors I race them every weekend.

I am not putting down this website at all but 60degreev6 was the best forum I have ever seen when it comes to knowledge in the people that know about these engines expresly performance.

I still race every weekend but I went from V6 then small block Chevy and now I'm up to a 700 horsepower 509ci big block Chevy all motor of course. Just finishing putting it all together in the next few weeks hoping to run 10 flat or faster come Spring which shouldn't be a problem. A great head is a gear head.

Let me know if you guys have any questions I'll try and help as much as I can I try to get on here a few times a week I am more of the performance person though not somebody who can help figure out why your car will start lol that's no fun to troubleshoot

I have some stickys here in the v6 area that may help.
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:08 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'm still planning on a ls3 416 stroker in the future, but with a wife, house, and kids, plus EMS work/ school, I'm completely tied up, so I'll have to slowly build my LS setup, and work with what I can afford for now.

I'll keep in contact with you for sure. I'm still gathering the necessary pieces. Its just a matter of working some OT in the next 2 months.

Last edited by Pyramid_Head; 02-23-2019 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Misspelling
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:19 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by Pyramid_Head View Post
Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'm still planning on a ls3 416 stroker in the future, but with a wife, house, and kids, plus EMS work/ school, I'm completely tied up, so I'll have to slowly build my LS setup, and work with what I can afford for now.

I'll keep in contact with you for sure. I'm still gathering the necessary pieces. Its just a matter of working some OT in the next 2 months.

I totally understand. I've got a wife, 10 month old, and newly home as well. Take your time there's no rush. I will say the one thing in our family, is that racing is part of us. It's a necessity sorta like foodl. So thsts one good thing that had always kept me moving forward. Every Sunday we go race no matter what. And as a family. We load up the car, trailor and motorhome and off we go.

I reread the same post so many times on here. One good thing is research. Keep reading up as much as you can and it will make any v6 mods easier and the ls swap down the road easier too.
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Old 02-23-2019, 09:13 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by fasteddi View Post
Not true. With gen 3 heads we can run a solid 9.5-10.5 compression static and still run a medium amount of boost (15-20psi). Of course a good sized cam helps grately. When we get a larger cam we lower the dynamic compression which really is what matters, not static.

If he uses some 3400 pistons, and 3500 heads hell have arround 9.6:1 comp. Not too bad for a street car. With a proper cam with no boost the dcr may be 7.5 or so. Lots of head room. Alot depends on the compression, intake closing, cam info, etc. I would personally get a delta 272 cam though at minimum. Trust me. It's good to 6000 rpm roughly. Just add some better springs and you are good to go. Dont listen to anyone who may say a 260 or so adv. Dur. Is enough for that 3.4 bottom end. Call deltacams and you'll have a cam at the door with lifters for about 130 bucks. Well worth it. The bigger the motor the less that advertised duration effects our engines.
what I meant was use the 3.4 rwd pistons if na or 3400 if boosting. which is what you alluded to basically, unless you think 12.5 to 1 is too high for na
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Old 02-23-2019, 09:21 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

and if you're getting a custom cam ground, the specs would also differ na to boost so like I said, id decide which way I want to go before hand
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:04 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by WhiskeySierra6 View Post
what I meant was use the 3.4 rwd pistons if na or 3400 if boosting. which is what you alluded to basically, unless you think 12.5 to 1 is too high for na

YES 12.5:1 is way to high for na unless you are running e85 or race gas. Both are either exspencive or a pain trust me.

Stick with the fwd pistons op. You'll be much happier. I've been there done that.

With alum heads always keep compression at about 11:1 for pump gas. Depending on the cam, dynamic compression you can go a bit higher but once you get so much compression it's not as rewarding as say 8:1 to 9.6:1. That is rewarding. Going from 9.6:1 to 12.5:1 for what hes doing is not. It will just be a pain in the azzzzz to tune and not have detonation.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:31 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by WhiskeySierra6 View Post
and if you're getting a custom cam ground, the specs would also differ na to boost so like I said, id decide which way I want to go before hand

I agree though youd be surprised that I never had a straight turbo cam, and made a solid 450hp 500hp. It's not rocket science with these motors they really are not picky when it comes to boost but a smaller cam arround 270 advertised durration is a great starting point to rev to about 6000rpm which is all I did to run mid and low 11s at 120mph. Quite honestly there is nonsense in turning more then 6k with a set up and saves then engine alot trust me. Anything over 280 is only hurting you with a turbo and adding lag but then again to get one of our 660s to rev to 7k and take advantage of a 280 300 durration is no easy feat in a na form.
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:11 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Yeah I have the ol comp 260h w/ 1.6 in mine. when I picked it up I had no plans to change the car from the stock tune and I had heard it was the most aggressive cam that the stock ecu could handle. I had no idea that one day it would be a turbo car with megasquirt lol. I'd like to get a custom ground cam. I like to support companies still making parts for these old 60v6s. my problem would be I would want one with a mean idle, and that's probably not the best for a turbo. I love the way that 'La Fiera' Fiero sounds.
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:14 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

btw he did say "but for now, a n/a 250-275hp build is in the plans" and for that he probably WOULD need 12.5 : 1 compression and race gas lol.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:11 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Why not just install the complete 3500? Then you are starting with a better/stronger block. Add turbo cam and tune it. It will be 100hp over the 2.8 (with headers) and then you add turbo when ready for another 1-200hp! With the 3500 being from a Malibu it most likely has the forged crank too!

iirc the RWD 3.4 with 3500 heads gets you 11.5:1 CR

3400 with 3500 heads gets you 8.9-9.0:1 CR.
3.4 RWD with 3400 heads gets you 12.5:1 CR
3.4 with DOHC pistons and 3500 heads gets you 12.5:1 CR.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:59 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

So true. I've been thinking about that lately since someone beat me to that 3.4l. Now, I just have the 3500 in my garage. My only problem is that I don't have much welding experience, so im not sure if i can fabricate any custom mounts, although, I do I have a neighbor that is a foreman. He has welding kits, etc. It just sucks that no one sells 3500 custom mounts for our f-bodies. I'd buy a set in a heartbeat!

I also read that the stock k-member has to be notched, and re-boxed so the oil pan can clear, and I must grind off some of the tranny bellhousing so the starter can fit. This part seems straight forward, but it's the mounts that are gonna give me migranes!

Last edited by Pyramid_Head; 03-11-2019 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:22 PM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

Originally Posted by Pyramid_Head View Post
So true. I've been thinking about that lately since someone beat me to that 3.4l. Now, I just have the 3500 in my garage. My only problem is that I don't have much welding experience, so im not sure if i can fabricate any custom mounts, although, I do I have a neighbor that is a foreman. He has welding kits, etc. It just sucks that no one sells 3500 custom mounts for our f-bodies. I'd buy a set in a heartbeat!

I also read that the stock k-member has to be notched, and re-boxed so the oil pan can clear, and I must grind off some of the tranny bellhousing so the starter can fit. This part seems straight forward, but it's the mounts that are gonna give me migranes!
if you hold off on a cam for now you could buy a flux core mig welder (or a used mig) and make some mounts! Then you can build your own headers if you wanted too!

One of the best ways to fab mounts is get the engine in and bolted to the transmission, the use some carbord (from beer cases or cereal boxes) and masking tape. Then mock it up and use it for templates for the steel.

no grinding needed for the starter on the automatics. I'm running a 3100 turbo in a full size '93 1500 Chevrolet truck with a '94 Camaro 4l60e... all I had to do was make a 9/16 steel spacer shim for the starter to work with the RWD flex plate. Then the torque converter cover needs notches for the starter on the other side. If you are manual trans you will need the bell housing with the dual starter pockets or look into the 2.2 s10 transmission/bell housing.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:22 AM
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Re: Another 3.4/3500 project

I found a "Chicago Electric AC Wire Feed Flux Core MIG Welder 125 Amp 120v" for $60. Is that good enough for fabbing mounts and headers?

Never mind. I just found a century fc90 for $120.

As for the swap process, I'm following this old post for now:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/719344-3500-swap-how.html

Seems like I have a dual starter slot on my transmission bell housing, so all it needs is some minor grinding to make the starter fit.

Last edited by Pyramid_Head; 03-12-2019 at 06:22 PM.
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