interesting code change,is it possible?
05-06-2002, 01:06 PM
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interesting code change,is it possible?
One of my crazy ideas is a wide band o2 sensor translated to the ecm ,then emplement in the code a readout of a/f ratio in the diagnostic data stream that coud be read from a scan tool.That would make tuning a snap.I am trying to learn how to read the bin without tc.I have done some changes by modding the bin manually. Someday this would be nice to add to the code.
05-06-2002, 01:22 PM
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Car: 78 Regal
Engine: 82 FBod LG4 305, 730 ECM
Transmission: M20
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Anything is possible as long as you know how to manipulate the code. All you have to do is look for an open input in the ecm (which it has various ones open) and feed the WBO2 there. Then write code for it to be seen by the ecm and sent to the scan tool in the diagnostic output serial data. Actually, I believe someone has already done this and replaced his narrow band O2 input with that of the WBO2 and then runs the thing in open loop and tunes by the WB output on his scanner. Sounds simple enough if you know the inner workings of the ecm's code but impossible if you don't. Not to mention the fact that it's not just add code but intertwine it to the existing code which then means that the editor you have for making nice quick changes to your tuning will probably be no good and you'll have to make anew definition file to make up for it. Simple right?
05-06-2002, 06:20 PM
#4
Because:
A) The ECM is outputting the stock narrow-band sensor voltage and it's not accurate for WOT tuning
B) A spreadsheet conversion is useless because of that inaccuracy.
C) That still has nothing to do with altering the ECM source code.
A) The ECM is outputting the stock narrow-band sensor voltage and it's not accurate for WOT tuning
B) A spreadsheet conversion is useless because of that inaccuracy.
C) That still has nothing to do with altering the ECM source code.
05-06-2002, 07:27 PM
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Oh, I always assumed that a WB O2 sensor's output was the same voltage at 14.7:1 as the narrow band one. So you'd just use the (correct) WB readings instead.
Easier than altering source code IMO.
Easier than altering source code IMO.
05-06-2002, 08:50 PM
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I'd second the thought of mapping a WBO2 signal into a pre-existing input that is already carried to the ALDL stream. For instance, the MAT sensor of a 165 unit. If you could get the signal from the WBO2 in the right range, it should be pretty straightforward to bring the data from the WBO2 to the ECM to whatever datalogging system you have. Then just do the calcs post-facto.
Heck, if someone cares to demonstrate this or a similar approach, I'd be MORE than happy to add the calc to my ALDL program. Then you could have a nice field which gives WBO2 voltage and the related AFRatio. If you want, I could even make up a little bar-meter which shows rich-lean condition along with the AFR value as it moves around. Might even make it red & green like those little ***** deals.
Deal? Somebody do it, give me the specs, and I'll do the ALDL end of it. If you're deadset on modifying the code, give me a holler about what input you want to use and maybe we can figure something out.
Heck, if someone cares to demonstrate this or a similar approach, I'd be MORE than happy to add the calc to my ALDL program. Then you could have a nice field which gives WBO2 voltage and the related AFRatio. If you want, I could even make up a little bar-meter which shows rich-lean condition along with the AFR value as it moves around. Might even make it red & green like those little ***** deals.
Deal? Somebody do it, give me the specs, and I'll do the ALDL end of it. If you're deadset on modifying the code, give me a holler about what input you want to use and maybe we can figure something out.
Last edited by Craig Moates; 05-23-2003 at 08:57 AM.
05-07-2002, 10:02 AM
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One of my crazy ideas is a wide band o2 sensor translated to the ecm ,then emplement in the code a readout of a/f ratio in the diagnostic data stream that coud be read from a scan tool.That would make tuning a snap.I am trying to learn how to read the bin without tc.I have done some changes by modding the bin manually. Someday this would be nice to add to the code.
Been done already so yes it is possible.
1. The DIY-WB output is already 0-5 vdc so no hardware is needed, but you cannot input it on the o2 sensor pin. The place I chose for the input was tps2. I found the correct pin at Ludis' site.
2. Adding code is as simple as finding a spot to put it and a spare ram value. You intercept the code right after the NB O2 sensor read and goto your code for a wide band read. Once you have read the value then you can do an index lookup table for an actual A/F ratio. Then you place this on the ram value you have chosen..
3. Then you can take the ram value in the data stream that represents battery voltage and substitute the new ram value. Craig Moates software says its battery voltage but what I am reading is A/F ratio.
This is where source code would help a lot. I do not have source code but to do this I disassembled the bin and made changes and then reassembled the bin.
Anyone who wants to try this let me know and I will help to walk you through it.
John
Been done already so yes it is possible.
1. The DIY-WB output is already 0-5 vdc so no hardware is needed, but you cannot input it on the o2 sensor pin. The place I chose for the input was tps2. I found the correct pin at Ludis' site.
2. Adding code is as simple as finding a spot to put it and a spare ram value. You intercept the code right after the NB O2 sensor read and goto your code for a wide band read. Once you have read the value then you can do an index lookup table for an actual A/F ratio. Then you place this on the ram value you have chosen..
3. Then you can take the ram value in the data stream that represents battery voltage and substitute the new ram value. Craig Moates software says its battery voltage but what I am reading is A/F ratio.
This is where source code would help a lot. I do not have source code but to do this I disassembled the bin and made changes and then reassembled the bin.
Anyone who wants to try this let me know and I will help to walk you through it.
John
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05-07-2002, 02:13 PM
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Could you walk me through it in detail?You used the battery voltage for af ratio.How does it work.Is 12.2 volts 12.2 a/f ratio or what?
Battery voltage output is a/d count divided by 10. So you choose table values that are A/F times 10 so that 12.2 volts on the scan tool equals 12.2 a/f
Do you have a disassembler and an assembler? Have you disassembled your bin and then reassembled it and gotten the same file? Which ECM are you working on? Have you been to Ludis' site and looked at the schematics?
I will be glad to answer all questions about this. I do have limited time so please excuse my short answers.
John
Battery voltage output is a/d count divided by 10. So you choose table values that are A/F times 10 so that 12.2 volts on the scan tool equals 12.2 a/f
Do you have a disassembler and an assembler? Have you disassembled your bin and then reassembled it and gotten the same file? Which ECM are you working on? Have you been to Ludis' site and looked at the schematics?
I will be glad to answer all questions about this. I do have limited time so please excuse my short answers.
John
05-14-2002, 08:00 AM
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I can get a disassembler from tc right?
Tunercat's disassembler will work. You also need the motorola assembler. You should disassemble then reassemble, convert to a bin file and then check to see that the new bin is the same as the old. Once you are sure that the disassembly that you made is good then you need to pick an input pin. Let me know when you have done the dis/re assembly and I will help you pick a pin.
John
Tunercat's disassembler will work. You also need the motorola assembler. You should disassemble then reassemble, convert to a bin file and then check to see that the new bin is the same as the old. Once you are sure that the disassembly that you made is good then you need to pick an input pin. Let me know when you have done the dis/re assembly and I will help you pick a pin.
John
05-14-2002, 11:01 AM
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Ok from what I understand,I need to disassemble and reasemble the bin to gain access in to modify things,right?I can read up on how to do this.Then find the pin to run the w/b to.But the next part I might have a bit harder time doing.I have read the bua hak and can make some sense of it all.But you stated I will need to code the w/b into the bin.I have never coded anything and don't want to get to a point where I am wasting your time.But if your willing to help I can do it.
05-14-2002, 01:15 PM
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Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
kvu, if you are using the same mask as the BUA it might be
easy. On the diy_efi incoming site there is a copy of the BUA
hac that is assemble-able already. Something like bua.txt.
The name may by different and might have a different case
(case sensitive server).
Then just replace the calibration info with the stuff from your
bin and re-assemble. Done. Plus it is already commented.
RBob.
easy. On the diy_efi incoming site there is a copy of the BUA
hac that is assemble-able already. Something like bua.txt.
The name may by different and might have a different case
(case sensitive server).
Then just replace the calibration info with the stuff from your
bin and re-assemble. Done. Plus it is already commented.
RBob.
05-15-2002, 04:24 PM
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I have never coded anything and don't want to get to a point where I am wasting your time.But if your willing to help I can do it.
I have always been thankful for people who were willing to help when I wanted to learn. If you wish to learn you will not be wasting my time. The programming involved in not difficult. Maybe 10 lines or so. To use the 6E you will also need to go to a larger PROM(256) or cull the program to allow space for the extra code.
John
I have always been thankful for people who were willing to help when I wanted to learn. If you wish to learn you will not be wasting my time. The programming involved in not difficult. Maybe 10 lines or so. To use the 6E you will also need to go to a larger PROM(256) or cull the program to allow space for the extra code.
John
05-20-2002, 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by kvu
I found the assembler but need some help how to use it to assemble my .src.32v-dohc can we swicth this to email,this thread is getting burried.
I found the assembler but need some help how to use it to assemble my .src.32v-dohc can we swicth this to email,this thread is getting burried.
I'd sure like to be able to see what'll you guys are up to....
05-20-2002, 05:49 PM
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This thread happens to be worth devoting the space to IMO.
I agree.
Maybe we can convince one of the moderators to make it sticky.
What about rbob's comment about the bua ready to reassemble?
The bua is 32b mask. If you want to do this to the 32 then we can do that also.
I found the assembler but need some help how to use it to assemble my .src
If you want you can email me your file and I will take a quick look at it.
John
I agree.
Maybe we can convince one of the moderators to make it sticky.
What about rbob's comment about the bua ready to reassemble?
The bua is 32b mask. If you want to do this to the 32 then we can do that also.
I found the assembler but need some help how to use it to assemble my .src
If you want you can email me your file and I will take a quick look at it.
John
05-20-2002, 06:01 PM
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I think while you are getting the assembler stuff taken care of we should look at the choices for pins. The wb has an output of 0-5 VDC and this is what most of the sensor inputs for the computer are. I have cropped some images from Ludis's site (I hope he does not mind) in order to show what I mean. The 165 has two unused Map ports that may be used for signal input.
05-20-2002, 06:13 PM
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This is the a/d chip in the 165. It shows map2 on channel 0 and map on channel 3. We will use this information to write the software for the input. We need only hook the output of the wb to pin c11 or d8 and make the appropriate changes to the code to allow us to store, manipulate, and log wb data through a scan tool.
John
John
05-20-2002, 06:34 PM
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Car: 84 SVO
Engine: Volvo headed 2.3T
Transmission: WCT5
Axle/Gears: 8.8" 3.73
Hope you don't mind if I tag along. 
This sounds very interesting (something I'd try). But I am running a '749 with $58 mask on a TPI. Looking at Lugis site I see several inputs that maybe usable, I am looking at the unused MAF input (F10). Any suggestions? I have the HAC you posted a while back for the $58 and have a .pdf titled Functional Features of the PFI 2.0 Turbo, really breaks down whats what. 
Like kvu I do not have much programming skills, but will put the time in to sort it out. thanks, Bob
This sounds very interesting (something I'd try). But I am running a '749 with $58 mask on a TPI. Looking at Lugis site I see several inputs that maybe usable, I am looking at the unused MAF input (F10). Any suggestions? I have the HAC you posted a while back for the $58 and have a .pdf titled Functional Features of the PFI 2.0 Turbo, really breaks down whats what. Like kvu I do not have much programming skills, but will put the time in to sort it out. thanks, Bob Last edited by SATURN5; 05-20-2002 at 06:48 PM.
05-20-2002, 08:55 PM
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I have sent you my bin disassembled.I'm using the 6E mask.I was looking at the bua to see generally where my tables are.I don't know the starting address so I'm not sure if it's disassembled right.I still need to learn how to assemble my source file.Glenn or Traxx should make this sticky,I agree.It just seems like the final missing link in the w/b project.I guess whatever pin (c11 d8)will be better,if it matters.Thanks again for your generous help 32V_DOHC.I have made straight fs from 6 grade up to 10th,then I quit school.But I am picking this up,so far.
Last edited by kvu; 05-20-2002 at 09:08 PM.
05-22-2002, 06:14 PM
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Looking at Lugis site I see several inputs that maybe usable, I am looking at the unused MAF input
I would stay away from pins that are not ground seeking. The way the MAF pin appears to work is that the difference between 5v and sensor voltage is taken on the resistor. This means current flows to the sensor. This may or may not be a problem. The sensor voltage is also inverted. This is something you would need to account for.
I think that the TPS2 or MAP2 pins would be more appropriate. This is the way I did it for the 8d code
HTH
John
I would stay away from pins that are not ground seeking. The way the MAF pin appears to work is that the difference between 5v and sensor voltage is taken on the resistor. This means current flows to the sensor. This may or may not be a problem. The sensor voltage is also inverted. This is something you would need to account for.
I think that the TPS2 or MAP2 pins would be more appropriate. This is the way I did it for the 8d code
HTH
John
05-22-2002, 07:28 PM
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Thanks John, I'll go with your suggestion and use the MAP2 pin. Presently dis/*** my bin, and comparing it to yours to see if I did it correctly. Other than changing the Knumcyl to $00 (8) and changing the injector size to reflect my injectors I have not made any further changes to my bin, ABYN base. cheers, Bob
05-23-2002, 11:21 PM
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Hi 32V_DOHC,I got your email.I understand and can do all of that.But before I disassemble my bin I have a few more questions.Will the file start address and the disassembly start address be the same($c000)?Should the start address use # before $c000.Do I need to fill the dis start and end address or use default?What about the comment character and label symbol,leave it alone?Should I include hex values,ASCll or just the hex address.After these questions I should have a dis/reassembled bin,ready to go.
07-10-2002, 02:58 PM
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I know this sounds lazy but what about a patch to add the needed code for an input.It would complete the w/b package.My wb pcb fits inside the 165 case.I could run the wb sensor output to the ecm case.Then read the wb a/f ratio from the aldl.It would be self contained.Would it overheat the pcb?Will it fit in a 730 case?
Would it overheat the pcb?Will it fit in a 730 case? 
It has gone stale.
07-27-2002, 11:04 PM
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I'm liking this thread a lot and plan to hook in the WBO2 when I get it built.
I have a 6E source that assembles to the identical bin (APYP, manual version of ARAP), if anybody's interested. I recently made the code totally relocatable and have put in some time (with a capital T) trying to add commenting. It assembles using AS150 (sorry, don't remember where I got that, maybe somewhere on diy-efi?) The source code is at:
//ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/APYP7165-relocatable.asm
Feel free to comment out the areas I haven't gotten to yet! I have a burning desire right now to figure out the transmission code/calibration sections.
HTH,
Jim
I have a 6E source that assembles to the identical bin (APYP, manual version of ARAP), if anybody's interested. I recently made the code totally relocatable and have put in some time (with a capital T) trying to add commenting. It assembles using AS150 (sorry, don't remember where I got that, maybe somewhere on diy-efi?) The source code is at:
//ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/APYP7165-relocatable.asm
Feel free to comment out the areas I haven't gotten to yet! I have a burning desire right now to figure out the transmission code/calibration sections.
HTH,
Jim
Last edited by 86Red4+3; 07-28-2002 at 12:36 PM.
01-13-2003, 01:06 PM
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I know this post pretty much died, but I am interested in attempting to make this work for the $6e ARAP code. My car is off the road till April so I won't be able to test it or finish it for a while, but I will start working on it in my spare time.
02-04-2003, 10:12 AM
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Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
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Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
TPI WB datalogging
Originally posted by dgoodhue
I know this post pretty much died, but I am interested in attempting to make this work for the $6e ARAP code. My car is off the road till April so I won't be able to test it or finish it for a while, but I will start working on it in my spare time.
I know this post pretty much died, but I am interested in attempting to make this work for the $6e ARAP code. My car is off the road till April so I won't be able to test it or finish it for a while, but I will start working on it in my spare time.
I finally got around to building a WB kit
of my own to play with, so I went again
and coded up an AFR lookup table for
some TPI bin files..
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/WB_hacs/
I should have more of the bins tested
in the next few weeks and can post them
alongside the AUJP hac..
mike
02-06-2003, 11:37 PM
#36
I don't suppose this post could be made into its own catagory? Or maybe a Sub-catagory of DIY PROM? That might make it easier to keep track of.
I know nothing about writing code or disassembling code, but it looks like I'm going to give it a whack when I get a WB board built and get it up and running.
I know nothing about writing code or disassembling code, but it looks like I'm going to give it a whack when I get a WB board built and get it up and running.
02-07-2003, 06:37 AM
#37
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Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
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Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Originally posted by Morley
I don't suppose this post could be made into its own catagory? Or maybe a Sub-catagory of DIY PROM? That might make it easier to keep track of.
I know nothing about writing code or disassembling code, but it looks like I'm going to give it a whack when I get a WB board built and get it up and running.
I don't suppose this post could be made into its own catagory? Or maybe a Sub-catagory of DIY PROM? That might make it easier to keep track of.
I know nothing about writing code or disassembling code, but it looks like I'm going to give it a whack when I get a WB board built and get it up and running.
made into it's own catagory.. (Esp now
that the WB sensors are on nationwide
backorder)
But as I say on my web page, I'm willing
to help/share code with anyone interested
in porting this to another ECM...
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/WB_hacs/
mike
02-07-2003, 10:18 AM
#38
Thanks for the link and info.
If anyone is looking for the O2 sensor for the DIY-WB and doesn't mind using a used one, you can try here http://uneedapart.com/
If anyone is looking for the O2 sensor for the DIY-WB and doesn't mind using a used one, you can try here http://uneedapart.com/
02-07-2003, 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by 85MikeTPI
It's probably not wide-spread enough to be
made into it's own catagory.. (Esp now
that the WB sensors are on nationwide
backorder)
But as I say on my web page, I'm willing
to help/share code with anyone interested
in porting this to another ECM...
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/WB_hacs/
It's probably not wide-spread enough to be
made into it's own catagory.. (Esp now
that the WB sensors are on nationwide
backorder)
But as I say on my web page, I'm willing
to help/share code with anyone interested
in porting this to another ECM...
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/WB_hacs/
02-23-2003, 04:42 AM
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is there no follow up on this, it seems to me that any aid in finding out what our engines are asking for, would save time and put the stand alone engine managment people in there place,,, i would really adore being able to view the AFR in Craig's software... tuning my 6e with a mod/MAF would be alot easier and allow me to add other options, {namely a ECM controled Electronic Cut out}....
02-23-2003, 08:12 AM
#41
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Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
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Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Originally posted by fun Pain
is there no follow up on this, it seems to me that any aid in finding out what our engines are asking for, would save time and put the stand alone engine managment people in there place,,, i would really adore being able to view the AFR in Craig's software... tuning my 6e with a mod/MAF would be alot easier and allow me to add other options, {namely a ECM controled Electronic Cut out}....
is there no follow up on this, it seems to me that any aid in finding out what our engines are asking for, would save time and put the stand alone engine managment people in there place,,, i would really adore being able to view the AFR in Craig's software... tuning my 6e with a mod/MAF would be alot easier and allow me to add other options, {namely a ECM controled Electronic Cut out}....
'7730 MAP ECM,and there doesn't seem
to be any available ground referenced
inputs to feed the WB data into.
It may still happen, but it may be alittle more
work than the code-only '7730 hac.
mike
02-23-2003, 09:03 AM
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that will work too, i have a 90 vette/auto, that i could test it out on, so if it works out as a great addition, i will definally switch to SD on the Bird
02-24-2003, 09:07 AM
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Now I have the 730 .But it would be nice to have a switch in winbin to turn on w/b input.The coding is the part I can't do.But is seems to be a popular idea.So could'nt you programmers out there make it happen?I'm sure there is enough talent on this board to do it,no problem.
.But it would be nice to have a switch in winbin to turn on w/b input.The coding is the part I can't do.But is seems to be a popular idea.So could'nt you programmers out there make it happen?I'm sure there is enough talent on this board to do it,no problem.
02-24-2003, 10:53 AM
#44
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Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
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Originally posted by 87400tpi
Now I have the 730 .But it would be nice to have a switch in winbin to turn on w/b input.The coding is the part I can't do.But is seems to be a popular idea.So could'nt you programmers out there make it happen?I'm sure there is enough talent on this board to do it,no problem.
Now I have the 730
.But it would be nice to have a switch in winbin to turn on w/b input.The coding is the part I can't do.But is seems to be a popular idea.So could'nt you programmers out there make it happen?I'm sure there is enough talent on this board to do it,no problem. switch/flag, but changing 7 bytes and
adding 100 bytes of code.
A "patch" program would be relatively easy
to do (I know some VB programs already
exist) but would be custom for each BCC.
I just presented the base bin with the hac
applied to it so people that are used to using
editors like Winbin, could just add their
custom data to a base bin already containing
the hac..
mike
02-24-2003, 11:05 AM
#45
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Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Originally posted by 85MikeTPI
At least with my WB hac, it's not just one
switch/flag, but changing 7 bytes and
adding 100 bytes of code.
A "patch" program would be relatively easy
to do (I know some VB programs already
exist) but would be custom for each BCC.
I just presented the base bin with the hac
applied to it so people that are used to using
editors like Winbin, could just add their
custom data to a base bin already containing
the hac..
mike
At least with my WB hac, it's not just one
switch/flag, but changing 7 bytes and
adding 100 bytes of code.
A "patch" program would be relatively easy
to do (I know some VB programs already
exist) but would be custom for each BCC.
I just presented the base bin with the hac
applied to it so people that are used to using
editors like Winbin, could just add their
custom data to a base bin already containing
the hac..
mike
RBob.
02-24-2003, 01:35 PM
#46
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Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Originally posted by RBob
Hi Mike, a patch program already exists. Check the 'patch method demo' sticky.
RBob.
Hi Mike, a patch program already exists. Check the 'patch method demo' sticky.
RBob.
and didn't think that's what it was??
I'll have to go back and read it a little
more carefully and digest it.
If so, I'll add the patch file on the website
along with the bins..
thanks
mike
05-13-2003, 12:53 AM
#47
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You guys are incredible!
I have downloaded the modified bins from Mike's site, for both SD and MAF. I have a WB O2 on order and will be building the controller "board-box" this month sometime. My question is the following: Can you run the VOUT from the controller to both the ECM and an LED display or only 1 at a time?
Thanks
I have downloaded the modified bins from Mike's site, for both SD and MAF. I have a WB O2 on order and will be building the controller "board-box" this month sometime. My question is the following: Can you run the VOUT from the controller to both the ECM and an LED display or only 1 at a time?
Thanks
05-13-2003, 06:08 AM
#48
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Car: 87 T/A
Engine: 441 SBC 12.5:1 0.680" Lift
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 4.10 TruTrac Moser 9"
I put together a patch that brings the WB voltage in to MAP2 of a 165 under 6E code, and am using a display simultaneously. Seems to work fine. There's a very minor offset (ca. 14.9 vs 14.7 or something like that), but I have no issues.
Last edited by Craig Moates; 05-23-2003 at 08:58 AM.
05-13-2003, 06:53 AM
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Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by OMINOUS_87
You guys are incredible!
I have downloaded the modified bins from Mike's site, for both SD and MAF. I have a WB O2 on order and will be building the controller "board-box" this month sometime. My question is the following: Can you run the VOUT from the controller to both the ECM and an LED display or only 1 at a time?
Thanks
You guys are incredible!
I have downloaded the modified bins from Mike's site, for both SD and MAF. I have a WB O2 on order and will be building the controller "board-box" this month sometime. My question is the following: Can you run the VOUT from the controller to both the ECM and an LED display or only 1 at a time?
Thanks