CaptPicardsZ28

About two years ago I started my 85Z28 project. It had a 305 with stock tranny etc., and that has all since been replaced with items in my sig. I had to get an aftermarket chip because I upgraded past the point that the ECM could compensate. So, I ordered my chip from a place here in AZ where I live from a company that was recommended by a good friend. Cost was 400 dollars. Couldn't drive the car without one so I ordered it. Sent them all the specs on my motor etc., and it took about three weeks to get it sent to me. This was in March of '03.

Since then I have had trouble with running the car at WOT in first gear (manual shifting). It would spit and sputter from about 1200rpm to about 2000rpm, and sometimes beyond that until I shifted into second gear. After that it was fine. Anyway, I have spent the better part of a year trying to figure this problem out. I made numerous calls back to them about my problem only to be told it sounded like it was an intake issue. They kept trying to sell me another one (intake).

I had at the time, my tpi unit on top of the 406 which was highly ported. I didnt think it was the intake but after about 6 mos. I decided to upgrade to Stealthram. Well, the problem was still there. So, recently I had someone here on TGO read my chip for me only to find out it was all messed up. Namely, the VE tables were not matched up at both 1600rpm lines. There were also several other things that didn't line up either.

I called them (company) back and this time I told them my chip was messed up and never burned right to begin with. I asked for a refund (too long on time) and was told they would send it to their chip burner to have it analyzed and possibly reburned. They were very "shocked" that I had had the chip read. So, I sent the company the readouts my friend gave me and his analysis of what was wrong with my chip and they looked at it. Their chip guy sent a response back to the company with replies to the comments my friend here on TGO had made.

I just got the chip back two days ago. It took their chip expert "5" weeks to fix it. He had to get help from his retired "GM" calibrator buddy. Needless to say, all of us who are learning to burn our own chips etc. were called "message board gurus" by this guy. It boils down to the fact that their chip guy obviously didnt know much about SD to do it right the first time. I have since bought my autoprom from Craig. I bought tunercat as well to work with my 95Z28. It will be here any day. In the meantime, I am sending the chip out again to have my friend read it for me to see what this bozo changed.

I havent had a chance yet to check and see what the car does at WOT. Bottom line is, I wish I had known more about all this DIY stuff before buying the chip cuz now all I got for my money was a 400 dollar "starter" chip! OUCH...I was very disappointed in myself because I always make it a point to do a lot of investigating and researching before spending money on upgrading my car to make sure its what I want. Somehow I blew it this time. I want to personally thank everyone who has helped me on this issue, especially Vernw.
:yourock:

All of you that have written sticky's, made programs like autoprom, tunercat, prominator and so forth, and helped out guys like me are to be commended for your time and effort. It is much appreciated. I have a long way to go in learning this stuff but I think it's the best thing to do. I just wanted to write this to warn others about buying custom chips. I am sure my situation is somewhat unique and there are guys who will work with people to get things right but most of the time I think it is just a huge disappointment. I have wasted 16 months trying to figure all this out. I could have had the car race ready by now. Thanks again to all of you "chip specialists" for your time and support. :hail: :hail: :yourock:

3.8TransAM

Take the time to learn and you will be rewarded :-)

I play with my 99% stock GTA , my modified former 350 hotcamed Formula(383 built for boost within 2 weeks) and this weekend my TTA for the first time(new improved eng, gunning for 10's on pump). Each one taught me something new and the TTA should be an entire new curve as well. Hoping it piques a little of Bruces curiousity :-) (he already said he'd work with me)

Amazing what u can do as u learn what does what or influences the whozits(real word here).

later
Jeremy

VetNutJim

What you got is a $400 chip you can erase and start over with.

If you're running speed density it's likely a $40 Memcal that you can reuse to put your own tune onto.

At $400 a pop the company you got it from can stand to lose every customer that comes along as long as they get to sell them ONE chip.

Remote chip burning is a lot like remote surgery.
The outcome isn't going to be very good.

Good luck with your chip burning. The learning curve is a little steep in the beginning and then it levels out.

The only way to do this hot rodding stuff now is to get in there and learn to 'burn your own'.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Can someone make this a sticky?

RBob.

JPrevost

It's been printed 10 times and put in my notebook to hand out to people that tell me tuning is over-rated. Hard to believe that people think factory ecms are junk (no, they just have emissions to worry about) and that tuning EFI only gives you a better idle .

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Your the moderator.

-- Joe

Grumpy

Wonderful, simply wonderful.
Using some Elmer's Glue, Doc's posted about 1,300 copies of it as wallpaper, thoughout the entire house.....

3.8TransAM

I have one of those 350$ wonder chips too, trying to avoid downtime while my tuning stuff was on order.


Boy am I sure glad I wasted that money :-)

People here that know my, know exactly what 4 letter colorful phrases I keep that bin named under, and for good reason.

later
Jeremy

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If required I can UPS another bottle of Elmers. . . <g>

Or maybe printer paper?

RBob.

meridius

Im new to this whole Tuned port set as I use to own a 1984Z that was carbed and the chip didnt really do much in it at all. I now have a 1988 GTA with the L98 and I too am going to start learning how to make my own chips as I want to take advantage of every mod I do to the car so I ask everyone here to be patient with me as I go through this learning process and look forward to any advice anyone can give me, and as for this subject it has inspired me even more to start up the learning sooner but I have other things going right now so its still on the back burner for now.

CaptPicardsZ28

I am glad everyone likes the post. I wanted to tell others here my horror story so it would give them something to think about before buying a custom chip. Again, this has been a huge disappointment. My car is not sputtering anymore, but I also know that there are still issues with the chip that I will have to fix myself as soon as my equipment comes.

The chip I bought (that they burned for me), is a flash and burn chip so I can reburn it again. It was amazing some of the things the chip guy said in his responses. He doesn't know much about my system at all. This time he asked for some datalogging to look at (should have asked the first time). I tried explaining to the people I bought the service from that this wouldnt work without major dyno time or some datalogging. I told them I didnt want this guy to reburn my chip either. However, they stuck up for him and said he could fix it. It seems to me that when I was inquiring about the chip in the first place they could have explained to me that it would be better to take readouts with a scanner or get it to a dyno first.

That didn't happen. I am looking forward to learning all I can about DIY. It will be wonderful to finally be able to see just what my setup is capable of doing. I'm only sorry it took so long. Time is money and money is time. To me, if your going to mod your car and make enough changes to warrant a new chip then learn to do it yourself. Unless someone is going to work with you until they get it right then in my opinion you are just buying into a scam. Noone will be able to "get it right" for you without datalogging and several pulls on a dyno etc.

In closing again, I must say that I have visited several other "forums" like TGO and NOONE can put a candle to the vast knowledge about DIY that there is on this forum. Several people have generously spent hours and hours providing pertinent information about chip burning that you could'nt buy or afford to pay for anywhere. TGO has helped me with so many things that I cannot even imagine having to pay for the wealth of info on this site. This thread was just my way of helping to pay something back. I hope I have contributed something of value to help save someone else from making the same mistake.

CaptPicardsZ28

Markgyver

I am going through the same thing right now. The chip company that I spent $400 with cant get it right after dealing with them since July and they keep blaming my vehicle. So I started to burn my own chips and I have it pretty close after a few weeks. I am working with my credit card company to try and get a refund.

Grumpy

Both in large quanities, please.
Maybe a printer cartridge??.

CaptPicardsZ28

Unfortunately for me the time frame was 16 months. Too long for a refund. I tried.

CaptPicardsZ28

I received the chip back from the place I bought it and I used it for a few days before sending it out to my friend again for him to read. Well, it turns out that there are still major discrepancies with the fuel and spark tables. After five weeks of waiting for them to fix some basic stuff they couldnt even get that right. I think I was very patient for that time period but now I am just peeved off. I dont yet have a comparison from the chip readout but will get it soon.

Looks like I will be calling the chip people on Tuesday and asking for a refund again. I have a feeling this whole thing will become one big mess. I may have to resort to taking them to court if necessary. Dont really want to do that. I think I would have a really good case considering that it was never done right to begin with. It seems that this chip guy only changed what he thought was best instead of what I asked him to change. I just got my autoprom yesterday and I know I can now try and burn my own chip but thats beside the point. I paid them 400 dollars. You would think they would get at least the basics right. I refuse to wait any longer for another fix. Five weeks was way too long for me and totally unnecesary.

Looks like I will gather all my evidence to get ready for a possible court battle. The guy I dealt with from the beginning is a friend of my best friend so maybe he will refund the money or come to some compromise. I talked to my friend about what I should do (because they are friends) and he gave me permission to pursue whatever I deem necessary to make things right. Turns out they are not close friends. Just some past business dealings. We'll see what happens on Tuesday.

doc

Captain, I agree completely with your first post where you thank those who helped out on this board.. I too have received alot of help here from more experienced guys. So, to all of you, thank you from me also.

The rest of your post about the chip burning experience is also right on the money. It simply points out that you can not tune a car thru the mail. The tuner has got to have the car for tuning and analysis purposes. How else can a tuner do a "custom tune".

CaptPicardsZ28

Exactly...

Update: Took my car out for a 15 mile ride to my friends house to help work on his circle track Camaro and found out my cam has gone flat. My friend said it was due to fuel wash. This would be caused by the messed up fuel tables I had when the chip was first burned. I am really upset at this point. I am going to have the oil tested for fuel contamination and hopefully be able to put a case together for both a refund for the chip and engine repair. Will have to pull the engine now. The car was losing power real bad with any kind of throttle and popping real loud. It was coming from the CIA filter and the entrance to the TB. The oil is also dark. I just changed it a few hundred miles ago. Also, last time I changed it, it was black. Didnt think anything of it at the time and I thought it was kind of odd because I only drive the car 4000 miles a year. I change the oil anyway after 3-6 mos. even if it doesnt need it. I just got all my Autoprom stuff from Craig and now I have to deal with this. AARRRRGGGHHHH!

CaptPicardsZ28

Nothing much else to report yet except that I did talk to the owner of the company that burned my custom chip. The conversation went as I expected. No help from them until I check the cam etc...the owner also defended his chip burner as being correct on his findings that there was nothing wrong with the chip to begin with (not true). He said the car naturally wouldnt run right because I swapped out the intake to HSR. I reminded him that I swapped at the suggestion and hounding of his two employees who insisted the car was running crappy because of the modifed TPI system I had originally on the motor. I told him the problem existed from the onset after getiing the new chip, not after I put on the new intake system.

He also told me that he had never heard of a cam going flat because of fuel wash. Said that they were doing me a favor by re-burning the chip for me and that the guy who did it spent a lot of time on it to make it work with my current setup and even had to get some advice from his GM retired friend. (This was mentioned earlier in the post). However, the car still does not run right even before the cam crapped out on me. It idles really rough until it warms up and smells rich when it does.The fuel tables are still messed up and so is the spark advance among other things. They even changed things in the chip that I didnt ask for.

He also told me that to blame the cam problem on the chip was a long shot because so many other things could have caused it. I reminded him that the chip and ECM are what tells the motor how much fuel it gets. I told him that I had changed plugs several times and also O2 sensor, knock sensor etc. Needless to say this is not going well at all. I was very nice (as I have been throughout) even though I am very upset. Somehow I dont think this is going to be much fun.