Blake

iTrader: (2)

hey guys I'm looking to put in a t-56 into my 91 camaro. it seems there are 3 types, one was made for the 93 camaro with a final ratio of something like 0.63 to 1. and then the one which seems to be most desirable with a 0.50:1 ratio and a capacity of 450ft/lbs of torque which is used on ls1's. now because it bolts up to a ls1, will it bolt up to my 406sbc? also what have you guys paid for yoru t-56's? I see one on ebay for $2000!!!!!! brandnew however.

your help is appriciated

cheers

blake

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Hey Blake!
I have a '93 T-56 behind the 350 in my car. There were actually two different T-56's in '93 depending on different vehicle options. The one I have has the following gear ratios:
2.97
2.07
1.43
1.00
0.8
0.62
and is allegedly rated at like 350-400 ft. lbs. of torque. There's been a fair amount of talk on the boards about these torque ratings though and how over the years of the 4th gen the tranny design never really changed so the torque ratings aren't necessarily all that crucial. From all the reading I've done the T-56 is extremely well built and the torque ratings are fairly conservative. When I bought my tranny it was brand new (my '84 was the 1st car it was ever installed in) and I got the tranny, bellhousing, and a flywheel redrilled to work with my 2-piece rear main crank for $1000. Shipping even ended up being free with how things worked out, so there are decent deals to be had out there!

LS1 T-56's are the same basic tranny but the input shaft is different, the bellhousing is different, and they are set up to work with a hydraulic throwout bearing, rather than a slave cylinder and clutch fork. I would stay away from the LS1 trannys just because it's not really worth the time, effort, and money it would cost to convert one to work properly with a standard SBC, at least from what I've read. Well, I suppose I've gone on long enough, I hope some of my info helped, good luck with whatever you decide to do!!

-Paul

Btw, here's a site that breaks out the trannys by part number so you can check the numbers if you find one to buy and figure out exactly which unit it is: http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English...s/T-56.asp#Car

Blake

iTrader: (2)

hey thanks for the input thats great, so I need a t-56 thats compatable with the LT-1's? making it compatable with my 406? so you said there were two types of tranny's made, I'm taking the ratio's were the only thing that changed? making one like yorus and the other the 0.50 6th gear ratio?


ps. I also read last night that the corvette t-56 has even closer gear ratio's for optimum exceleratation?


and that a t-56 is actually in the viper but withstands up to 550 ft/lbs ?

anywho fill me in guys, this seems pretty straight forward swap. and a bunch of fun.

cheers

blake

RB83L69

The most nearly direct swap-in is the one from a 94-97 Camaro/Firebird with LT1.

The 93 trans also has a lower first gear (wider ratios), and is said to be weaker.

I used one from about a 96 or 97.

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, exactly what RB said. I forgot to include some of the info because I was just about falling asleep at the keyboard when I typed that post But anyway, just like he said, there were 2 different ratio combos available in '93 and they're rumored to be weaker than the later units, but like I said, I still haven't seen any conclusive evidence as to why they would be weaker. Then there is the '94-'97 tranny which has different gearing than both of the '93 trannys including a higher ratio (.50) 6th gear for lower rpm's at cruise. I think that any of the other trannys (LS1, Corvette, Viper, etc) would be too much work to modify for our cars, although I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion about any of them except the LS1, which can be done, but isn't cost or time effective. Just keep your eyes out for a '93-'97 LT1 F-body unit and grab one when you find a good deal on it. I wouldn't be scared of a '93 unit, but if you want the .50 overdrive definitely go for the '94-'97 box. Also, if you find any info in your research that talks about differences in the boxes relating to the reasons for the different torque ratings, I'd be very interested to know. I'd just like to know what is different inside the tranny (if anything) that makes the '93 units get a lower torque rating than the '94-'97's I've always been curious about that. Once again, good luck, it'll be worth it in the end, you'll love the 6-speed. I don't think there's anyone on the boards who regrets swapping in the 6-speed!!!!

-Paul

GTA-SPD

I used the 94 up style in my GTA and let me tell you, the taller 6th is a double edged sword. If you have a gear taller than about a 3.73, you'll never be able to pull out and pass in 6th, however at like 90 with 3.27's the tach reads like 2200. I'm planning on putting a set of 3.73's or 4.10's in the car to put a little power to the ground in 6th. My brother's car has 4.10's in it and it cruises right about where my GTA cruised with the 700R4 and 3.27's. There is another consideration to think about during the swap, the speedometer drive. If you have an electric speedo then you have no worries really, if you can make the g*ddamned Dakota Digital buffer box work right. If you have a cable (I'm not sure what the 91 Camaro had) you'll have to purchase the $300 JTR tailshaft housing to convert from the electric VSS on the T-56 to a cable for your car. You mentioned eBay as your source so you may want to look for the guy with the "Third Gen Retrofit" tranny kit on there. It's like $2000 or $2500 for everything you'll need. When I was looking, I almost bought that, but then I remembered that I had a T-56 in the shop already, I just had to talk my wife out of using it in her Z.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

If you're willing to spend that much, get the aftermarket Tremec T-56. You will not regret it. It has all the +'s, uses the stock bellhousing (comes w/adaptor), comes with a shifter, fits in the stock t-5 hole in the floor( no cutting), has the proper speedo connection, it's brand new and has the steel 3-4 shift fork, has the .20 5th and the .38 6th. You will have to shorten the torque arm 2" and make a driveshaft 2" shorter. But I have done both and this is by far the cleanest install.

BTW the LT-1 pull clutch sucks.

Blake

iTrader: (2)

what in the world is a pull clutch?

were thinking of actually just going to our ICBC salvage yards to find a totalled camaro which were looking for, then bid on it, as they bid every car off to actual wrecking yards etc, try to get it use it for the tranny and then sell many parts on ebay ie. door skins, seats, dash, if still in good condition

I'm really looking forward to this, i've never owned a standard car, and only really kinda know how to drive em a little bit. I can get around town, but never got in the situation on a hill. and thats just by jumpin in the car with my gf.

I think I might need to practice a little more because I woudl be quite nervous with the prospected 500+ horsepower motor I'm going to be putting in the camaro.


cheers

blake

GTA-SPD

Yeah that pull-type clutch does **** me off a little, but it actually holds pretty good. A pull-type clutch is just that, instead of the throwout bearing pushing on the diaphragm to release the clutch, it pulls against the back of the fingers. It sounds wierd, but it is pretty simple. The one thing I've noticed is the Centerforce clutches work better on the pull type system than the do on the other type. Maybe it's just the fact that I want it to work better (to justify the price difference), but it sure seems that way to me. A OE repacement clutch kit for a LS1 (or T-5) is like $150ish, the same clutch for the LT1 pull-type is $269-$300. Even though the clutch is more, I would still advise anyone to go the LT1 route. The driveshaft and torque arm are identical and the fabrication on the crossmember is easy. There are numerous companies that have a conversion crossmember available that vary in price from $50 all the way up to $400 (Spohn gives you an adjustable torque arm for the $400). Have fun with it, it is probably the most rewarding job that you'll ever do to your car. The end result is a car that is way more fun to drive and more like what a sports car should be.

cam-

Its a sweetheart of a tranny thats for sure but with five hundred horse you are gonna want the Mcleod street twin clutch. Its pricey as all get out but I have heard too many complaints of Spec and the factory offerings won't hold that kind of power. It comes with an adjustable master cylinder and a billet steel flywheel and best of all if you do burn it out one day they can rebuild it for a couple hundred bucks. I wish I had of bought it right from the start instead of suffering with stock junk that has ended up costing me more. The stock shifter sucks too. Mushy and long throws so plan on an aftermarket short throw. If you are running the stock torque arm them I would shy away from a Vette version as it will be more grief. Another mod that seems common is to swap out the 3-4 plastic shift fork with a steel one. I have not yet done this but will when the new engine goes in. I'm not trying to deter you as I love mine and feel it was worth it but I was illusioned at the start and had to spend more than I had first thought to get it working sweet. All I need now is a street twin whoohoo!

KiLLJ0Y

Don is right, he did the Tremec swap for me and i helped install it. it was pretty easy, bolt in and go..

i highly recommend it

TheGreatJ

When I was researching my 6-speed swap I read that it's in the gear ratios. The deeper first and second gears make for more gear teeth which means smaller gear teeth. Smaller teeth are weaker. Hence the reduced torque capacity.

Blake

iTrader: (2)

what kind of price are you talking about for that clutch set up?
there was a sfi approved balanced billet flywheel for 300 bux on ebay. anyways is the centerforce dual friction clutch anygood?

let me know what u recomend

cheers

blake

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting J, I had never thought of it that way. That may very well be what it is. My only remaining question is, why are there several trannys listed here: http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English...s/T-56.asp#Car which have the same gear ratios, but different torque ratings?

In any case, I also recommend going with an LT1 T-56 over the "aftermarket" unit. That way you don't have to deal with shortening the driveshaft and torque arm. I'm not sure on Camaros but I know later model Firebirds had electrically driven speedos so hooking up the speedometer through a Dakota Digital box is pretty easy. My '84 had a cable driven speedo, so I swapped in a 120 MPH cluster with an electronic speedo from a '91 'bird and dealt with the issue that way. I also would recommend a Centerforce clutch over going with a stock type. Although I'm sure the unit that 87roc_t56 mentioned would be even better than my Dual Friction, which I'm quite happy with so far. I'm sure you'll make the right choice for your application though!

-Paul

cam-

I think its around $1250.00 for all the stuff. billet flywheel, twin disk clutch, adjustable master cylinder etc. I know that sounds crazy but if you search on camaroz28.com and other forums where the fourth gen guys are you will see why with that kind of power its the best and most cost effective way to fly when all is said and done.

I was going to run a dual friction but the race shop here won't sell them anymore for the t56 because of all the prblems they have had with them. Something about the design apparently grips well but those extra weights overcome the hydraulics at high rpm causing blown shifts and eats up the synchros. I hear that with Spec its hit and miss... mre guys seem unhappy than happy though.

If you don't want to spend that kind of coin the at least run the LT4 pressure plate with a good quality disc. Unfortunately there is no low cost answer for clutches here. If you are considering Centerforces billet flywheel keep in mind that it weighs something like 40lbs whereas the stocker is about half of that. Good luck with it and please let us know what you choose and how it works out

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

A lot of people like the SPEC clutch kits, stage 2 and 3.
I am going to be running a SPEC Flywheel and an Autozone clutch kit, basically an LT4 pressure plate and McLeod Disc.

I did buy a 93 T56 setup since the price was too good to pass up, $800 for everything. Only thing that concerned me was that my T/A has 4.10 gears and I didn't remember what ratios were in the 93 T56. In the end, I ended up swapping my 93 T56 for a 96 T56 since my friend had 3.42 gears and the 93 T56 was a better choice for him and the 96 T56 was perfect for me.

cam-

Here is another board member who was not pleased with Spec. Like I said do a search where there are loads in use on other forums where the fourth gen guys are and make up your own mind. Heres the link with pics of the street twin and a better price.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=254590