fire350tpi

ive seen some nasty sts turbos , for the lt1, and the ls1 but basicly besdies the ls1, and the speed density the lt1/tpi are basicly the same, could a lt1 system be modded to fit a tpi??

thanks

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Anything can be done with $$$$.

fire350tpi

hehe think i could buy the lt1 version and then maybe an extra 500-1k spent on modifieing it?

D's89IROCZ

I don't know if I am reading it right but ,are trying to have a rearmounted turbo system ?

89JYturbo

If you are going remote mount, the main advantage is cost and simplicity (very few mods to the car). I would recommend building your own system instead of spending the big $$ on and STS kit and still having to modify it. It's your money, so you can decide how to spend it, but to answer your question, yes, you could adaapt the STS kit to you TPI.

fire350tpi

well i mean im new to the car world hehe, and i woudlnt know where to get the parts, like id need to fab up mounts for the turbo and then bend tubing for the intake and such

what do you think it would run me, with like a good 100 + hp turbo?

thanks

D's89IROCZ

Thats the stuff you will have to find out on your own . Some places sell teh flanges for you ...then pipeing you will have to call around for . But I believe it will be ALOT less than buying that STS kit

nightrider87

i think you need to be "old" to the car world before you jump into a turbo as a project.

fire350tpi

True, but im a learning technician so i can learn quick

i think if i could find the right people to fab up some stuff for me, then well it be easy to throw in, im gonna look into it alot more and learn the best i can although i believe for a turbo set up itll need a higher flowing maf, ( i plan to throw vortech heads vortech tpi base slp runners + ported plenum bbk throttle body and an slp cold air intake on a fresh rebuild before i throw a turbo on

just planning ahead i suppose thanks for the input

rocluvr0013

the cold air intake isnt going to do you much good when you need to tear it out for IC piping so dont waste your $$

rocluvr0013

I would imagine that it would cost you much less money to build your own turbo "kit" then modify sts's since theirs is in my eyes overpriced as is. Plus way more fun to do it custom... shouldnt be a problem since your a learning tech...

FYI the stock maf doesnt become a bottleneck until about 400 hp supposedly

fire350tpi

Sounds good to me, although id like to maybe throw my own custom cold air on there ( like a summit neck of the tbto the maf- maybe a 10 inch or so long alumnum pipe then a nice k and n cone filter


lemme tell you guys something lol, never use a 2 ton jack from walmart on a firebird itll lift it, np but its nice noise lol and when u release the pressure it wont go down slow no matter how less u turn it ( example lol i turned it 1/90th of a turn whole car drops onto the jack stand)- lol as im pissing myself


thanks for the imput guys

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

you need to email Dave South at STS.. i have 3 friends that currently work at STS..

they have done 3 thrid gens to date... the LT1 system is very very close.. the only difference is the last piping that goes from under the car to the intake.

the big advantages of their systems are.. the turbo stays 500* F cooler when mounted in the rear, the turbo they use is one they specifically have modified to work based on rear mount system.. its a T3/T4 type of hybrid.. but not like the ones you get on Ebay.

the piping that leads back to the intake actually helps to cool the intake charge.. you can add a front mount IC if you want to

the exhaust note at idle is pretty sweet.. and at full throttle is fricken cool..

2 of my friends have an STS system on their car.. a 99 camaro and a 94 Vtec integra.. which on 12lbs of boost put down 290rwhp...

the systems are great.. but they are expensive.. but if you call them they will work with you on building a system..

if you were going to build your own kit.. you would really want to at least get their plumbing(oil filter, lines, return lines ect) then find your own turbo and make your own piping.

if you check their website.. look at the new SRT 10 viper truck.. its my friend and neighbor's dad's truck, just added an STS system with 5lbs of boost and that thing is a freakin ROCKET!. they used a modified T72 on it.. and it put down 570rwhp.. crazy

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

man i would love to have a rear mounted turbo on my car but i wouldn't know where to start

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Advantage?

You know, I hate statements like that… cutting out the BS, they used one smaller then you would normally size for an engine that size to get it to spool with the lower available energy at the rear of the car.

Shouldn’t be very hard to get something that would work on ebay or anyplace else, just look at the stuff intended for imports making about the HP that you want to on a smallish (say 3L or or smaller) engine and it will work and be sized the same as the STS turbo.

That is pretty slick, sorta, the problem is that they run the charge pipe through the section of the car that is about as hot as things get so you’ll never get great cooling… It does work though, I guess.

that really depends on what you consider sweet and what’s in front of it. There’s 2 of them locally that I see/hear on a regular basis, and they sound awful, at best, but they’re both LT1 cars. In general, LT1’s sound awful without a muffler (the reason that the original SLP loudmouth wasn’t sold for them), but LS1’s and most 305’s sound pretty sweet (actually, LS1’s and most 3rd gen 305’s sound very similar without a muffler).

Are they selling it separate now, I thought for the longest time they refused to. If it’s at a reasonable price I would agree, since that is the only part of the setup that is really any bit of a hassle…

Pony up the $$$ or figure out how to build it… anyone that can handle an exhaust can build the charge and hot side plumbing, but the oiling system is a bit of a hassle, and there the biggest deal is finding a pump for $$$ that you’re willing to spend that will work long term. Tilton, Weldon and a few others make assorted differential lube pumps that are perfect for the application but cost $$$, for a cheap alternative a few people have gotten away with running the surflow pumps, but I’m not sure how long they’ll last in the application, definitely way outside their intended use.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

are you actually asking me why there is an advantage for a turbo to run 500* cooler??? oooooooook.. we all know heat kills parts right?

plus that turbo is not in the engine bay, heat soaking everything.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I’m not asking anything… I stating that it’s questionable if that is an advantage.

Heat is a good thing in something designed to operate off that heat. Last I checked, turbos essentially work by recovering some of the energy from the exhaust gasses, and efficiency of energy transfer in any kind of system depends on the differential between what is available and what is already in whatever it is being transferred to. In other words, as applied to this example, it is MUCH easier to get the energy needed to efficiently harness the power to drive the compressor where the exhaust gas temps are 500* hotter.

I don’t know of anyone that has done it, but I’d bet that if you measured backpressure at the port, you’d have to live with more of it as the turbo gets mounted further down the exhaust stream to spool at the same rate, making the whole system less efficient.

Lazy underhood heat management is the builder’s/owner’s issue, it can be done very effectively, even in an all out race situation.

I would argue that there are only 2 REAL advantages to a rear mount turbo setup:
- packaging and
- there is almost no way to screw up the exhaust after the turbo, there isn’t room to do something restrictive.

That being said, I can see some justification in the setup on something like an LT1 powered 4th gen, which have especially tight engine compartments (much worse then the LS1’s or any 3rd gen), but it makes little if any sense on something like the full size trucks that I’ve heard them installed on.

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

Have you guys seen any nice single or twin turbo kits that can be used for the LB9?
The rear mounted setup sounds okay, just wondering what else is out there. Seems to be lots for the LT1/LS1, which is fine, just looking to the future and wondering if I will be able to do a turbo on the 'vert I am buying for a resonable price, even if it's at a lower psi until upgrading other areas.

Fred91GTA

There's actually quite a good market out for turbo kits right now for the thirdgens. Much more than a couple of years ago. You can do a search on here for B&G Fabrications, or go to BBS Designs turbos. www.bbsdesigns.net

They all look like good systems. Up to you what you want. Though if you have a convertible, I'd highly recommend strengthening that car first. Get some subframe connectors and a cage or something. The turbo would flex the hell out of that car.

high c

ive made many turbo kits for imports and one chevy(1 camry, 2 accord and even a chevy tbi 1500 truck) and ive made and welded the manis, fuel system up-greades and charge piping now with that on the table, i dont clam to know every thing about turochargers (ive done a lot of reading like, maximum boost by corky bell and so on,,,,) im now making a kit for my 305 tpi camaro my buget is around 500 for everything. im shooting for around 300 wheel hp and im 99.9% sure i will meat this goal and go past it

p.s inercoolers dont make a diff in charge temp (with in 15 deg.) until your running over 7 psi

D's89IROCZ

I got their 650hp kit . Everythngi looks awesome . Their customer service is Top notch aswell !

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

Did you install it already? If so, can you post or email any photos? It sounds like a great way to spend the money I have set aside for my property tax bill

rocluvr0013

Last i checked heat doesnt kill turbos...

D's89IROCZ

Hopefully this works my cardomain site is all wonky


and here it is on a L-98

Raven90IROC

Mine on and running. Its not a BBS kit but Ed made the RHD headers for me and gave me all the advice i could ever need.



A couple of vids after the build.

I had a zorst leak in this one

Fixed it

This was it all rushed up at the end of the build. Looks a fair bit better now with new charge-pipe, BoV and tidy up.






EDIT: The cars run a 12.3 at 3-4psi without extra fuel so far.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

you're right.. but heat kills the bearings that kill turbos

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

if your bearing housing is getting hot enough to coke modern oils and cause bearing problems you've got issues other then your turbo location.

the rest of that argument is pure, utter BS

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

I never really liked the additional heat that turbos often create under the hood, espcially on a f-body where the air flow isn't real high. I agree, good oil should solve turbo bearing problems from oil coke.

Still, who really wants all that heat under there? I just don't like it...especially in SoCal with A/C on in traffic in the summer, where temps go over 100 routinely.

rocluvr0013

Im not saying its not easier to rear mount a turbo and im not saying heatsoak is a good thing but those are the only 2 advantages of the rear mount system...

Plus all the intake piping has got to weigh something, maybe another advantage would be the turbo's and intake's weight is more towards the rear, however it is NOT the most efficient way to do it.

Granted it works, and can work very well. And i can see how many people would prefer it on a street car with full accessories, and/or and limited underhood space.... But keeping the heat in the turbo and headers and downpipe isnt that difficult, and its also ideal.

Another downside is getting oil to and from the turbo, it has to travel a very long distance.

FYI 89 JY turbo has done it both ways, he knows what he talking about. In fact i learned most of this in his thread....

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

I apologize if this question is redundant, but...
if all the reasons you guys give are true (I don't disagree), then what is the advantage of a rear mounted turbo?

nightrider87

rear mount turbos can be fabbed up and running in a day... its a real easy setup :shrug:

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

you forgot another +... no custom headers.. the ability to be 50 state legal..(granted some people dont have smog laws)

another + .. ease of installation..

another +.. less clutter in the engine bay when you need to get to something you need to fix or replace..

another +... less hoses lines.. and other stuff in the engine bay (depending on how you route things)


so there are other positives to doing it

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

Got it - that answers my question. Not so much heat, just makes everything else about turbocharging a thirdgen easier, especially here in CA where the AIR manifolds are mandatory...

Thanks!

WannaBeFast

how do u send the oil all the way in the back.

Can u hook up a tank with an electrical oil pump? - they are $90 on summit I think

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

You know, that's a really good question - I would think some long, steel braided oil lines? I need to check on that!

Drac0nic

Think about it, a turbo can turn at 100K+ RPM, so it's got plenty of heat exposure besides the exhaust; I've seen oil starved units that were blue in the shaft, can exhaust temperatures do that?

84CamaroSS

Sorry but for my two cents dont go with a rice loving turbo. Though on a procharger half the cost for the same power. Sorry not a big turbo fan!

Drac0nic

Meh, the Turbocharger is an american invention, first used in production on american vehicles and american planes. Corvairs and 215 Fireball V8s were among the first to use turbochargers in a production envronment not some japanese car. Turbo will also have a higher efficiency then a blower, and system cost is highly dependent on if you can fabricate or not; long term cost is also lower due to the fact that blower companies stick it to you when they break, not to mention that blowers can be a lot harder on cranks and front bearings unless you use stuff like a cog drive which adds expense. Don't forget to include the exhaust system in the cost of a blower too, most turbo kits come with manifolds or headers of some sort. Also a lot harder to dig a suitable used procharger up from the JY, unlike a turbocharger.

84CamaroSS

Im not talking about old roots style im talking about the self contained centrigaful ones form Procharger average power gains from 30% to 220%. It might be american invention but you mostly see them on Hondas. Plus the blow off to me doesnt say V8 power.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Turbos are mostly seen on American diesel trucks. I would associate them more with things like that than Honda cars. In terms of the cars, you are talking about 2.0 liter sized engines which are nothing like American V8s. The American V8s are more comparable to diesel truck engines when boosted.

What does "Plus the blow off to me doesnt say V8 power." supposed to mean? What blow off? You don't have to run a blow off valve if you don't want to.

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

the only justification i can see with that, is that you dont have to ditch your exhaust system if you have headers already, and it leaves a some-what stock appearance to something that isnt crowded with piping and turbos

and 84camaross, superchargers are essentially belt driven turbos, they do the same thing, compress the air, its just the method of how they do that differs them, and s/c use blow off valves too, all they are there for is to vent the excess compressed air when the TB blades close, therefore majorly decressing the stress on the super/turbocharger due to back pressure, theres nothing "rice" about them.

IROCZZ3

Uh, Buick was messing with turbos long before they put em on Hondas. Ever heard of the Grand National? Also, some of those turbo'd Hondas will run away from "V8 power" cars...just look at the street racing forum.

Just noticed but...Damn this is an old thread!

Smizx7

I have a mint 1988 5.7 IROC with only 40,xxx miles. Its a DEI car from his dealership in North Carolina and i got it for a steal. I want to turbo this thing as that might be the only practical way to get high rpm power from the factory intake manifold. I want to do the STS style job but of course DIY. What needs to be adjusted on the computer side of things (?) and second - check this! - Instead of using the engine oil to cool my turbo, i was considering using the AT cooling lines as i just not long ago installed a built T56 with Carbon Fiber synchroes and competition grade viper T56 components, and running a divorced system using a small reservoir and perhaps a Honda oil filter (PH2808 is very small but efficient) relocation kit. I cut the lines right off the trans leaving the built in tranny cooler running through the radiator. Give me some feedback on that factory resource! The lines are literally right next to one another and i wont have to tap into my damn engine pan.

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

First of all, this thread is like a year old. Secondly, make your own thread as this has nothing to to with the thread at hand.

ikeepitreelz

Turbos have an impeller downstream of the exhaust the air rushing to escape is what spins the impeller not the heat, Oil is used to both cool down the turbo so the bearings dont fry and it lubricates ,just like an engine. so heat and oil starvation does kill a turbo depending on usage.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not so, heat causes the air molecules to seperate, which in turn increases the volume of air due to the byproduct of thinner fuel. You want heat, but you don't want to go overboard with it; you want a happy medium with your EGT, which is why the sizing of the turbo is important.