Linson

...and at what point are 4th gen F-Bodies just too cheap to pass up?

my car is a low-mile (36K), mildly built (Fast Burn Heads, ZZ4 cam, and a little of everything else[6k miles on build]) '89 Formula 350: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...ula-350-a.html

i want it to go faster, and i have considered a D1SC Procharger, but i kinda foresee tuning problems and a net loss in stealth and road manners.

what i like about the LS motors is the modern-day power output, responsiveness to head/cam mods, along with mild road manners. while LS2,3,6,&7 have even more advantages, the LS1s seem to be the most straight-forward swap (from a 4th Gen to a 3rd Gen), and running 4th Gens, even with LS1s, are getting cheaper than junk yard pull outs.

case in point: there is a '00 Z28 for sale in my area, and the asking price is $2900. which means the car can be had for $2500 or less.

so outside of the fact that the engine (w/155K on it) will need to be overhauled, and i would either buy aftermarket cylinder heads + cam or reworked stock heads + cam - what would having a completely disposable 4th Gen donor car save in hassle & money as it pertains to:

Mounting of the Engine/Trans: hardware and/or fabrication needed to mount the engine and transmission (and any other necessities onto the 3rd Gen Formula.) suspension and various crosmembers?

Wiring: in my mind, running donor car = complete ECU and wiring harness. am i missing anything? does anything change mechanically/electronically in the process of taking the engine/trans out of the 4th Gen and into the 3rd Gen? perhaps the interface between the engine/ECU and the gauges?

Fuel: i have a Walbro 255 and a Holy AFPR. i'm assuming the AFPR would not carry over. but what about the tank, and Walbro 255?


i did do a search and i did read a lot of info, but mostly pertaining to a pull out, not with having a donor car, so i still have these specific questions.

those that know me here must realize that i may be a lot of things, but a dreamer is not one of them - meaning that if i'm talking about doing something, then there is a very real chance of that course of action being pursued in the not-too-distant future. so i am not here to waste anyone's time with my questions.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Just in response to the above quotes... $2900 is a good deal if it is running fine. Is it auto or manual? Has it been wrecked badly or is it drivable? Just curious.

Just know that everything else does add up... but you could resell your current engine & trans to make up for the money spent in the swap. Also depending on how good the 4th gens body & interior are you could make a decent amount of money back by selling the body for parts.

On my swap: after reselling the 2002 trans am for parts; and selling off the old TPI & full T5 transmission set up I've almost broken even... but I admit I have gotten some really good deals.

Linson

to answer your questions: I have not talked to the seller at all, but from all appearances, it is a perfectly fine running car that has never been wrecked. and it has a 4L60E.


to reiterate my questions: did you save a lot of money and hassle because you had a donor 4th Gen? that is to say, did the ECU and wiring harness transfer over? did you have to cut/weld anything on the '89? what hardware has to be gotten? you said that "everything else adds up." I guess my question is - "what were you able to carry over from the 4th Gen donor car, and what else did you need that didn't come with the donor or couldn't be transferred from the donor car?"

Linson

crap! called the guy today. he said the car sold two weeks ago and he has been experiencing technical difficulty removing the add from Craigslist.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I'll answer in order:

I easily saved a $1000 by having the full donor car. Plus I was able to resell the body & interior on ebay/Craigslist to make well over $1500 back into my pocket.
I had a harness custom made... but if you have more patience than me you can splice the ls1 harness with your factory 3rd gen harness. TGO member "Pocket" has a couple of threads on the subject detailing how to do the prep work.
I had to cut a notch into the factory K-member.

When I say everything else adds up, I mean:
Swap headers: $300+
Exhaust Y-pipe: $175+
Custom Harness: $750+
Mail order ECM tune: $250+
Notch for k-member: $30+ (that's not including welding it in)
Radiator hoses: $65
Custom CAI pieced together from intakehoses.com + K&N filter: $200

Replacing all the ls1 sensors was around $250 for mostly denso/GM replacements; I purchased them from rockauto.

On a 89' camaro, to get your factory gauges working will cost around $400. I believe the firebird's have electronic speedometers so it will not cost as much to make the gauges work with the LS1.

Or you can swap in the full 4th gen dash from your donor car... that would be by far the cheapest route. then the harness would not have to have anywhere near as much work done to it. I never delved into the 4th gen dash swap; so I honestly don't know exactly what has to be modded to make that work... but several members have made it work.

Depending on how you run your exhaust you may need a different torque arm. I wanted maximum exhaust clearance so I went with a double hump crossmember from hawks & ran the traclink from GW.

I'm sure I left out a few things.

The below thread gives a lot more details:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...third-gen.html

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I 2nd everything NOSHOWALLGO said. I've done 3 thirdgen LS swaps now and I've done it with a donor and with buying just the drive train from a wrecked car. You spend some more time/effort pulling the parts you need out of the donor car and selling off the roller but it does save a significant amount of money. It's worth it if you can find the right donor car for sure. They sell fast so be ready with cash when you find one, it will be gone quick.

When we ls swapped my Dad's car we found a complete running not wrecked 99 Z28(LS1/T56) with 80k miles and bought it for $3200. Sold the 355/T5 from his car for 2K and sold the 99 Z28 as a roller for $1K. At that point it's about even. The real cost comes from the other stuff needed to complete the swap like motor/trans mounts, fuel system ,headers, exhaust, wiring harness, hoses, tune, cam swap etc. But its much easier to absorb those costs when you basically break even obtaining the major components.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Dont let the mileage scare you. LSx engines have ran well into the +300k range without any troubles. They've also failed at under 50k. Its all about maintenance

For your first conversion I recommend a donor car. Any subsequent swap can be pieced together since you will know ahead of time whats involved

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

After delaying it for years I am still planning to do a full swap from a car I already have . I am taking everything , body harness dash and all from my 2001 z28 and installing into my 89 Iroc. A few people I know of have done the full swap. It's just not as common .

Only reason I am doing the entire harness is because my factory one is shot. Dash is ruined and gauges are junk. I see a few problems that hopefully I can overcome. Since the car is manual window and air delete , that part won't be a issue.

jharrison5

I'm smack dab in the middle of swapping a 5.3 into my IROC and I wish I would have just gone with a donor car. Long story short I sold my '03 Duramax and the kid that bought it didn't have enough cash so we worked out a deal for cash plus a 67k LS1. He was supposed to get the engine to me within a week and after 3 months still hadn't come through. Come to find out the LS1 was toast and he had been scrambling to find me one. In the end I wound up with a 72k 5.3 and misc parts from the blown LS1.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

That doesn't sound fun! Good luck on your 5.3 build though.

jharrison5

The build is coming along slowly, but she'll get there eventually.

The guy basically tried to blow me off until he realized i knew people who knew his dad, his boss, and that I would, and could, put a lien on the truck for the outstanding balance. What really put him into high gear was when I told him he had a week to get me a motor or I was coming for the truck. I explained to him that I still had a key, knew where he worked and lived, and had everything in writing with his signature.

Gave him the choice of giving me a motor within a week or I would show up and hand him the cash he gave me and drive the truck away lol! I had a motor within three days and he had to drive 12 hours round trip to get it bought and in my possession!

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Man some people are just lousy. Looks like lighting a fire under his *** got things moving though at least.

Linson

thanks for all this input.

it sounds a bit daunting either way.

tubesncubes

Just crossing the finish line on my swap I started in April and I can see how much smoother a donor car has made the process.
I haven't had to mess with any pins on the ecu.
The car started the first time, which seems little until you consider how much room for error there is in such an involved process.
Between the two cars I've had nearly everything I needed other than the obvious necessary aftermarket parts.
Confidence that the car ran and drove and performed the way it did

There are also several perks too depending on how much you swap over
4th gen rear
Plastic Gas tank and fuel system
Interior pieces
Ls brakes
Bcm
Plenty of 2 3/4" exhaust
Driveshaft

Also consider if you picked up a decent driving ls car for 3000 vs what people are paying for a motor/trans/ecu pullout
What leftover pieces can you sell from the car? Extra wheels, extra interior pieces, hood, spoiler, hatch, doors... The list goes on
Now, what all can you sell from the pullout to reimburse the cost?
Nothing.
So not only is it more expensive, it puts you further behind due to the extra things you'll need throughout the build that the donor car had for essentially free.
My $.02