Trans Am#5

Faster Windows

MrDude_1

heh, heres the pic they posted.


all the guy did was add better power wires and some relays, he didnt actually speed it up or anything....

Trans Am#5

He believes that the power coming to the motor itself is inadequate. A relay connected to a better +12v source thats switched from the existing supply wire would provide 'more power'. It's like pulling water through a straw vs. through a 1" pipe....as long as the motor 'can/will' use the additional power, he suggests that it would increase the speed of the windows. It would be nice to try, but it won't be any time soon for me. I just figured someone might have a door apart already that could give it a try to see if it helps.

jconrad

Damn, and I just had both of my doors apart yesterday. Well, I think he may be on to something with bascially wiring them up the same as a 4th gen, I believe. But I think I'll wait and see what a few other people's results may be before I try it

dr1

im sure it would do something, dunno about you guys but when my car is in high idle and making nearly 14v there considerably faster then when its making 12v... so more power getting to the motors is definately a plus

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Let's guess that GM used 14 AWG wire, although I'd imagine that it was probably smaller.

Let's assume that the current draw to put up a window is 10 amps. That may be a bit high, but it gets the point across.

According to a voltage drop calculator available online, that will result in a .7 volt drop across 12 feet of wire, which I would estimate is around what it takes to go from the battery to a window motor. Now... when your motors get old, they get tired, so they need a higher voltage to continue working properly. In that case, the voltage drop really can become an issue.

I like his idea, and I'm going to give it a try.

jconrad

Cool, let me know how it works out, and try to snap some pics along the way
(The GF hates how slow my windows are.)

MrDude_1

short list of pet peeves:

windows are slow
the blower for AC and heat is weak
and the power door lock 'noids wear out.

CaptPicardsZ28

I think this has been a topic of discussion before and some people have already tried it.

ES87iroc

Exactly. There's a reason alot of the gn/tta guys use an upgraded "hotwire" fuel pump setup. (Pretty much the same idea as above)

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

Next time your GF start biyachin about the windows, you tell her this on behalf of Omnipotent Goku

You don't like my windows.... well..

Loop it... its funny

pecha

TheGreatJ

I ran my windows through relays when I rewired the car. Using 10-gauge wire, they seem to be faster than they used to be, but it's hard to tell since the car was stripped for 3 months. I figured it couldn't hurt, and I was rewiring it anyway.

GTA4ME

Moving...

Duck

Spraying silicon spray lube to internal moving parts of the power windows made them move at least twice as fast....

Trans Am#5

Tried that....it didn't make them twice as fast for me but it did make them slightly quicker.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

the lights, brakes and fans draw waaaay too much
cooling system is weak(but that's another topic board)
and the list goes on...

Oh well, the world of technolgy passed-up the thirdgen. It was revolutionary styling, but it was designed and built with '70s technology. Look how much the entire industry changed in the '80s.

Nocturnall

I don't know what's up with your cars but my a/c works better then the a/c in my girls 97 explorer. The heater works the *****. I got 500watts worth of subs pounding all the time and extra 15inch lights under the seats inside and with all that going and all the lights lit up nothing comes close to dimming where as my friends camry with half the power in 1 sub the lights are like friggin strobes when you get dble bass drums going in songs. I love my car, all you people that complain about the "flaws" in the firebird should either shut up or get rid of the car. If you dislike so much stuff about the car then friggin get a camry or honda. I love everything about the car. No complaints here.

87LB9B4Z

I have a Honda, two of them. 2004 Accord for my wife, a 2002 Civic Si (EP3) for me for commuting 40 miles each way to work. But when it comes to fun (like roasting imports), I drive the 86 4 spd 3.4L motivated Fiero (another "engineering mistake" that makes me grin ear-to-ear) and when I want to really enjoy smoking all comers I drive the IROC.

I know it's bad form and off topic but I had to say it.

MrDude_1

no, the AC is cold, and the heat is hot.

but even on the full blast setting, the blower doesnt blow the air into your face all that hard.

flyitlikustolit

where does the b+ wire go to? I assume it's second wire off of the PWR ACC fuse, but I'm not completely sure. when i replace me door panels later this summer, I'm gonna try this, because i need to replace a door lock popper in the pass. side too, and I'm tired of the slow *** windows.

and I completely agree about how annoying certain things about this car are, but they're still minor inconveniences, and i forget about 'em anyway at WOT

83Z28406

I just got done with this and it workes great 5 and a half seconds up 4 down compared to 11 or 12 up works great

flyitlikustolit

nobody answered my question.... what does the b+ wire connect to?

stenseltizm

iTrader: (1)

Positive Battery, to be safe-through a fuse

Morley

Ducting and door (inside ducts) seals are probably shot and letting a lot of air leak out of the plenum box.

Morley

Try cleaning (I use brake parts cleaner) all of the power window mechanicals and then lubing them with white grease, that ought to speed things up.

83Z28406

yeah I cleaned and lubed the tracks but they were still very slow the switches are fairly new moters are a year old but was still slow after all the maintance so I followed this guys directions bought a pile of relays off ebay (new high quality ones with harnesses)ran an 8ga wire with a 60 amp fuse to relays and my winows operate in about half the time the factory runs all the power for the window moters through the switches and thirty or forty feet of 14 ga wire the switches are the real bottleneck though

Trans Am#5

Great job 83Z!

tilstad

Wtf? When I can commute in my bird with our quadrouple gas prices, so can you!

Cool cars are to be driven, what's the point in having one if your gonna be driving a Hanoda anyways...

So have all of you gotten similar results as 83Z28406?

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i'm wondering the same thing, some body else needs to do this and let us know

Vader

Actually, you identified the problem, but then went in a different direction for the solution. The older motors might require higher CURRENT, not voltage. It's the I/R drop in the factory wiring that limits current and causes the net voltage loss. Increasing the ampacity of the conductors might only accelerate the failure of the motor by allowing higher than designed current.

Study the characteristics of a standard universal or PM motor and you'll see the relationship between armature voltage, input current, RPM, and how load affects them. It's a wicked triangle when one of the factors goes out of tolerance.

However, the root cause is not probably the motor. the motor will only draw enough current to perform its function and move teh load. Granted, if the magnets are a bit weaker, the current may be slightly higher, but not more than a handfull of mA. And a bit of excess brush carbon around the armature will increase current without performing any work, but unless it is on the verge of burning across, the carbon is not a significant factor. The real reason is that the load has increased - Period.

That is why I try to impart the need to clean, lubricate, and properly adjust the glass guide channels and entire window regulator mechanism when servicing or replacing a window regulator motor. It's even more important on a twenty-some year old unibody that is sagging, twisting, and doesn't fit the factory guages any more.

A new motor alone is only a Band-Aid, and is destined for the same fate as the original if nothing else is done.

Ian_F

Imagine how fast brand new window motors WITH relays would be!

86Z

iTrader: (4)

uhm i just swapped in power windows from manual, i got 2 used regulators, installed and lubed the tracks with white lithium, with the factory harness and new switches it took both window 5-7 seconds up or down, without relays or anything, i then installed relays on the factory harness with no difference, i didnt try a bigger power wire from the battery yet, oh yeah the car was off when i timed the windows, probably a little faster with the car running, i installed relays because it will save the expensive switches from taking all that current

jconrad

So what is the proper way to increase the current? I notice that the windows operate alot faster when the car is running, as opposed to when it is off.

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

Same here and the locks work better.

Somehow the silicon spray wore off, however during my research one day I was able to go from 18 seconds to 8 seconds on my windows with proper cleaning and lubing.

ScrapMaker

hrm my window motors are stock, and I've never cleaned up the window guides... ever.. and my windows take about 3 seconds up, 2.5 down...

I can say though, that the yellowtop battery seemed to really help the window speed with the engine off

CamarosRUS

damn, most you guys are lucky. i was dammed with the troublesome windows. takes forever with the car on or off, up or down and my drivebr window motor is only about 2-3 years old (and it doesnt get a ton of use either). the pass window wont go up all the way now either so its time for a new pass motor, some better wiring with relays and some extensive cleaning and lubing.

same goes for the electric fan and headlights.....all getting relays after reading some nice things here and there.

ScrapMaker

the only thing in my car that I've lubricated are the door lock mechanisms...

stupid me... I was using keyless entry, and my doors weren't even locking! pretty common on our cars.

CamarosRUS

yea my pass side door doesnt even lock, good thing the alarm goes off though when opened!!!

ScrapMaker

grease those up, and you'll be all set...

I need to wire up my 530t today... I wish I had the diagrams for the power window switches...

soulbounder

It will draw as much current as it needs I believe. Not sure if forcing more current to travel through it is possible without changing motor internals.

3rd gen V8

Ah man i thought i was the only one with those problems you guys are all talking about and my car is a 1992 rs.

yea i got the slow A** windows and non working door locks' well they work but you gotta press it like 6 times to make it lock .

and oh another thing is that when i got my car it has benn modified when i turn the key on the fan comes on by its self. and some times i have to cheak that the switch is all the way forward or the fan will not run or the alter will not charge.?

and my last thing is that the passenger window only comes half way down and will not go any farther untill you wait like 15 sec's and keep going.

And my car has 180,000 miles on it with no engine overhual and its still going preaty strong ! I love Chevy's