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I'm going to start a write up of a complete LS1 front brake upgrade. i will include all parts I used and step by step of the process including pictures
So far these are the parts I've purchased.
Pair of used front calipers with brackets from a 98 Camaro $65
Rebuild kits for calipers $10
Pair of new front ACDELCO front factory rotors part#18A87A $27.80 each These will be turned on a lathe to make the hubs.
New wheel bearings and seals for above rotors $20
Pair of LS1 adapter brackets and hardware from Bigbrakeupgrade.com $69 shipped. They will also send you detailed instructions on how to modify your spindle if you purchase the brackets from them.
Pair of stock rotors from a 98 Camaro $50
Longer studs to put in original hubs $30 for set of 10 from eBay
New brake pads $40
Drill bits and tap $20
You can reuse your factory brake lines but you will need the banjo bolt for the 98-02 calipers.
So you will have around $350-$400 in this conversion including machining of hubs. I got lucky and got my hubs turned for free from my cousin.
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 10-15-2019 at 08:33 AM.
With this one exception you will most likely (WILL) like the LS1 brakes. Need better pads then a $15 dollar set. Into the $60 - $75 dollar range...
RBob.
Guess I should have said $20. This will be a weekend driver. No need for the $60-$75 pads for that. Now it will be autocrossed a couple times a year. Ceramic will be fine for daily driver. I will buy some good pads just for track days. And anything has to be better than the crappy stock stuff! They are horrible! I have already upgraded my car to the PBR rear disc as it had drum in the rear.
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 08-08-2019 at 07:57 PM.
Guess I should have said $20. This will be a weekend driver. No need for the $60-$75 pads for that. Now it will be autocrossed a couple times a year. Ceramic will be fine for daily driver. I will buy some good pads just for track days. And anything has to be better than the crappy stock stuff! They are horrible! I have already upgraded my car to the PBR rear disc as it had drum in the rear.
I'm afraid I'm with RBob on this; I tried to get by with the cheap ceramic pads and they basically negated any improvement from the upgraded brakes. Installed a set of the Stillen pads and it was night and day difference.
I'm afraid I'm with RBob on this; I tried to get by with the cheap ceramic pads and they basically negated any improvement from the upgraded brakes. Installed a set of the Stillen pads and it was night and day difference.
I guess i have learned something. I will look into better pads. This is mostly a write up to let people know what is involved and the rough cost to do this upgrade. I appreciate the input guys.
So those hubs are made from std. run-of-the-mill 3rd gen. rotors?
Yep I bought new AC Delco rotors when I got the car. I was going to put them on but never did. Glad I didn’t return them. My cousin said it’s easy to turn them down.As long as you have access to a lathe. Lol
Spindle trimmed and holes drilled and tapped ( I drilled the bottom hole out to 1/2") Bigbrakeupgrade.com tells you to tap it also but most say to just drill it out and only tap the bracket. I felt no need to tap it as the bolt comes in from the back side of the spindle into the bracket. Upper hole drill with a 13/32 bit and tap with a 12mmx1.75 tap. Make sure you go deep enough so the bolt doesn't bottom out before it's tight. You may have to grind the spindle flat where the bracket mounts for clearance of the bracket. Also make sure when you cut your steering stop off the bottom you cut it far enough up so the head of the bolt for the bracket will clear it. I had to trim some more off as I didn't cut enough the first time.
Dust shield trimmed down to fit. You have to use two of the holes for the new LS1 bracket so you just cut around the shield and leave the front hole intact. This will keep dirt out of the hub on the back side.
New bracket mounted. You must tap the bottom mounting hole on the bracket with the 12mmx1.75 tap
New hub/rotor assembly installed along with the caliper bracket. You may need a washer shim between the LS1 bracket and the caliper bracket.You want to make sure the bracket is centered over the rotor so there will be no interference. Mine did not require a shim.
Last thing was putting the caliper on and hooking up the brake line. You can use the factory line but must use the LS1 banjo bolt. My car has Earl's stainless lines and I had no issues using them.
And final crappy pic is brakes behind the wheel.
Took me about 2 hours total for both sides. First side took longer just because that's the way it always goes. Pretty easy upgrade for a backyard mechanic to do.
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 10-15-2019 at 08:54 AM.
Buttoned it all up today. Best thing I have done to this car so far. The difference is night and day. Car stops like it should have from the factory. I didn’t realize how bad the stock brakes were till I did this upgrade!
Not surprised you like it, I put the C4 standard duty brakes on the front and they too are decent. I felt the same way, should have been factory for these cars.
Does anyone find it concerning that you lose the register on the hub that the wheel bore sits on (read: wheels no longer hub-centric)? Do any of the aftermarket hubs lengthen this register to make up for the rotor thickness?
Does anyone find it concerning that you lose the register on the hub that the wheel bore sits on (read: wheels no longer hub-centric)? Do any of the aftermarket hubs lengthen this register to make up for the rotor thickness?
Why would it be concerning? The lugs being a conical seat center the wheels to the hub. There is really no reason for them to be hubcentric. Pretty much all the aftermarket hubs are just machined from stock 3rd gen rotors so they wouldn't be longer and not sure you could make them longer anyway. Most of the aftermarket wheels people run don't have the same bore as stock anyway.
Does anyone find it concerning that you lose the register on the hub that the wheel bore sits on (read: wheels no longer hub-centric)? Do any of the aftermarket hubs lengthen this register to make up for the rotor thickness?
It is a concern most people are ignorant of. I personally don't like running my wheels lug centric compared to hub centric. Big brake upgrade sells an aluminum hub with an extended register. I just received my set.
It is a concern most people are ignorant of. I personally don't like running my wheels lug centric compared to hub centric. Big brake upgrade sells an aluminum hub with an extended register. I just received my set.
I think it comes down to preference. Most see no need to run hub centric wheels or adapters to make them such. Searching will get you the same amount of people for and against hub centric. Personally I have had no issues in 20 plus years of running aftermarket wheels without them being hub centric.
I think it comes down to preference. Most see no need to run hub centric wheels or adapters to make them such. Searching will get you the same amount of people for and against hub centric. Personally I have had no issues in 20 plus years of running aftermarket wheels without them being hub centric.
Like I said, it's ignorance. The weight of the vehicle rests on the hub when they are hub-centric, when you go lug the weight is supported by friction and the lugs..... The "majority" is irrelevant and not engineers so it's not a question of people say this or that, it's flat out an engineering and safety issue. And anecdotes are not evidence or fact. Just because YOU haven't had a problem doesn't mean you won't in the future.
I don't personally care what you do, I just don't like when people, like you, advocate that it is safe without giving any facts about the negative outcome it may produce. Have I done it? Yes, I immediately regretted it since it isn't the way it was engineered and I will do what I can to not get in that position again.
Like I said, it's ignorance. The weight of the vehicle rests on the hub when they are hub-centric, when you go lug the weight is supported by friction and the lugs..... The "majority" is irrelevant and not engineers so it's not a question of people say this or that, it's flat out an engineering and safety issue. And anecdotes are not evidence or fact. Just because YOU haven't had a problem doesn't mean you won't in the future.
I don't personally care what you do, I just don't like when people, like you, advocate that it is safe without giving any facts about the negative outcome it may produce. Have I done it? Yes, I immediately regretted it since it isn't the way it was engineered and I will do what I can to not get in that position again.
I appreciate the responses from both of you. It was kind of a canned question in that I already find it to be concerning, and prefer a hub-centric setup, so much so that if I buy aftermarket wheels the bore will certainly fit my application. I expected everyones response to be no concern at all, or to accept that upgraded studs would account for the change, so I truly do appreciate your response scooter and the reference to bigbrakeupgrade's hub. I already had hubs from another supplier and realized this "issue" the other day as I got started on the project.
I know for 30 years I had this car it has 230kms at 100k it had rear pads 1 time in 95 didn't even need them
I got a stiffer prop spring video on YouTube
and my car used to nose dive really bad
now 2 years ago it's doesn't anymore and 2 years now the rear calipers are actually working
they had brake dust in them half as much as the front
I was just asking I was gonna get the ls1 brakes but the machine the hubs scared me
I don't know ppl here
ty
I got a conversion kit from Big Brake Upgrade as well. It appears to be really quality stuff, I got their billet hub and i think it is worth the extra money.
With That Being Said, I am wondering if anyone has had any issues after they converted from stock to an upgraded brake system. My car was originally drums in the rear and discs in the front. I now have no stopping power at a low RPM after upgrading the rear brakes to discs and the front to the LS1 SS camaro brakes. I can put the car in neutral at a stop, rev the engine with a foot on the brake pedal to get the pedal to go down and bite more, but at lower RPMs the brakes cannot even hold the car back. It will start going forward at around 1000 RPM.
Are you all running the stock master cylinder/booster/prop valve, or is this something I need to upgrade as well?
It's been a while since I did the conversion. IIRC, I changed nothing other the rear axle with discs. That said, rear braking performance wan't that good but the car did stop very well. Depending exactly on what master cylinder you started with, it could be sufficiently in spec to not be a problem. Or it could be. That doesn't help much I know but that's what I've learned.
For the record, what kind of vacuum do you pull at idle? Anything less than 12" can start giving you issues with braking performance.
These lists may help.
Master cylinder specs. Piston bore size is the deal breaker here.
I got a conversion kit from Big Brake Upgrade as well. It appears to be really quality stuff, I got their billet hub and i think it is worth the extra money.
With That Being Said, I am wondering if anyone has had any issues after they converted from stock to an upgraded brake system. My car was originally drums in the rear and discs in the front. I now have no stopping power at a low RPM after upgrading the rear brakes to discs and the front to the LS1 SS camaro brakes. I can put the car in neutral at a stop, rev the engine with a foot on the brake pedal to get the pedal to go down and bite more, but at lower RPMs the brakes cannot even hold the car back. It will start going forward at around 1000 RPM.
Are you all running the stock master cylinder/booster/prop valve, or is this something I need to upgrade as well?
Please advise I feel lost haha
-Thomas
I still have the original master cylinder. I do have an upgraded proportioning valve with the heavier spring installed. I also have upgraded to a 4th gen rear from a LS car. I have no issues at all with my setup.
I wonder if switching to the 4th gen MC will solve my problem. My vacuum is higher than 12, it was around 13-14 so i dont think that is the issue. Was your car originally set up with rear discs?
I wonder if switching to the 4th gen MC will solve my problem. My vacuum is higher than 12, it was around 13-14 so i dont think that is the issue. Was your car originally set up with rear discs?
No it wasn’t. It had factory drums. I did pull a proportioning valve from a 89 parts car I had but it was also drum.
Like I said, it's ignorance. The weight of the vehicle rests on the hub when they are hub-centric, when you go lug the weight is supported by friction and the lugs..... The "majority" is irrelevant and not engineers so it's not a question of people say this or that, it's flat out an engineering and safety issue. And anecdotes are not evidence or fact. Just because YOU haven't had a problem doesn't mean you won't in the future.
I don't personally care what you do, I just don't like when people, like you, advocate that it is safe without giving any facts about the negative outcome it may produce. Have I done it? Yes, I immediately regretted it since it isn't the way it was engineered and I will do what I can to not get in that position again.
Hasnt been ONE report of a problem of this type. If on rear I might be inclined to think you have a point. 100 ft. lbs on each lug on front says hell no.
Its not moving. 500 ft. Lbs says BS.
Hasnt been ONE report of a problem of this type. If on rear I might be inclined to think you have a point. 100 ft. lbs on each lug on front says hell no.
Its not moving. 500 ft. Lbs says BS.
Yeah you're not an engineer either, and yes there have been reported issues with it so you can STFU too You sure uphold the aviation mechanic stereotype
Yeah you're not an engineer either, and yes there have been reported issues with it so you can STFU too You sure uphold the aviation mechanic stereotype
I knew your smartass would respond this way. No there has not been a reported issue of this type ? Prove it !!!
Yeah you engineers are real good with theory and designing BS that people like me who actually use our hands for a
living on aircraft and cars everyday and wonder....WTF were they thinking. Mumble on .....*******
Keep living in theory land and we will live in reality. BYE
I made this thread to help guys out on what is needed for parts and what I did. People can take it how they want. This mod has been done many many times. I’m not going to resort to name calling and petty crap. I will get the mods to delete it if I have to. This forum has helped me tremendously with building my car. I appreciate everyone's responses. Please keep it civil.
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 03-03-2020 at 06:28 AM.
Yeah you're not an engineer either, and yes there have been reported issues with it so you can STFU too You sure uphold the aviation mechanic stereotype
Funny I'm an engineer and former F-14 electrician. If your point is that aviation mechanics are top of the line, then you are correct.
08-06-2019, 02:19 PM
You sure uphold the aviation mechanic stereotype 
