raptere

So I need your help to figure out if I'm being crazy or not...

I'm upgrading the front brakes on my 91 Z28. Currently 4 wheel PBR disk. I'm upgrading to the Cadilac ATS/ C7 Base Brembro Brakes. That much I'm set on, I already have the calipers. I am trying to pick out rotors now, and had basically decided on the Rabestos Performance R-300 series slotted rotors. I found a good deal on them, and have them on order. Of course I can help but continue researching and I came upon the following thread on the corvette forum where there were two significant failures of this product line of rotor!

NAPA Rotor explode C6 Z06 - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

I should add, aside from the above issue, these rotors have very positive reviews online. That said, I am still considering trying out these rotors... Hear me out on my logic.... The actual failures both took place with the same product line of rotor, but a different actual rotor, both cars were C6 Z06's. (different casting and machining) Those cars have larger 6 piston calipers and larger diameter rotors 355 mm. Mine are the 321 mm variant. Both of these instances also took place during full on track racing of the cars. My car is only going to be used for street driving and autox. I've read that in the brief time autox runs take, you just don't get up to full track racing brake temps, which were likely the contributing factors for these failures... I read through the whole thread and of course people start ranting on about you get what you pay for, and cheap Chinese crap... but the more research I do, I find you simply cannot get American made brake rotors anymore. They just about all come from China. It comes down to what the company is requiring the company in china to do while manufacturing their rotors. I know people don't like to admit it, but China is capable of quality, if the right quality and technology requirements are put in place. Also, when people say stick to companies you can trust, I thought I could trust Raybestos, again, these rotors are also advertised and sold under Napa, and ACDelco brands. So that means there is basically no better I can do when trying to buy from a major recognized brand, right? Can none of those brands be trusted anymore?

My thought is just that these are two very rare failures that result from hard track use on a more demanding vehicle platform than mine will be. Think I am safe to still try them in my application or am I playing with fire?

If I were to return the Raybestos rotors, everyone seems to talk up Centric rotors as being trustworthy, but they are made in China just the same as the other ones... Again we have no way to know the quality requirements and technology used in that factory... For theirs I would probably just be using their black hat plain rotors. Don't want to jump up to the price bracket of the StopTech Slotted, made by Centric. At that point I would just get DBA rotors which I believe to be bullet proof, but also 3-4 times the price...




Product Features: Raybestos Racing Performance: Performance Rotors (brakepartsinc.com)
Actual Raybestos Rotor (581612PER): Catalog (brakepartsinc.com)
Re-branded - Visually Identical Rotors:
Napa: NAPA Adaptive One Performance Front Brake Rotor Slotted UP RA881612 | Buy Online - NAPA Auto Parts (napaonline.com)
Genuine GM - ACDelco Gold: ACDelco Gold Performance Front Disc Brake Rotor | Parts (gmparts.com)

raptere

No experience or opinions from anyone? Reading back through as many reviews as I can find, I am finding they are mixed... I'm starting to think I may just go with some proven quality plain smooth rotors...

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Hello again. Since nobody has replied yet, let the debate begin!

It isn't that nobody here has any experience with the brand, it's just that many of them are vocally against "cheap Chinese" products, even though they buy them, so they're deeply closeted and afraid to speak up. But if they do speak-up, then it's not likely to contain any love anyway.

Raybestos is probably the oldest brand of brake products in the US. The company name represents exactly what it sounds like: founded by a guy named Ray, who invented brake linings made of asbestos. And up until the 80s, Raybestos had always been the ONLY name in racing brake shoes and pads. It hasn't formally been "Raybestos" for over 30 years now, but the brand is still a big OEM of brake rotors. And since OE products tend to be pretty stout, I think those will be fine.

Thousands of Corvettes have been running on those rotors for about a decade now. And while manufacturing defects can occur, the problem with the "exploding" rotors in that thread... well, the hate and blame seem personal and blind, because the problem seems like it might be due to owner neglect.

Each incident had one thing in common with each other, and it seems to have gone overlooked because everyone was blinded by their hate for "cheap Chinese steel": in each case, it was stated that "the rotors had only been on the car for one day." Is it common to go racing on rotors that have only been on a car for one day? Even for street use, new rotors can fail if not properly broken in and heat cycled. Granted, it doesn't take more than a day to accomplish that, but if you go out too soon afterwards, the rotors might not have cooled down sufficiently to have completed the process. And I'd think for racing, the importance of the process would be tenfold.

I like DBA. I saw an interview several years ago with the founder, a man on a mission, and he didn't take shortcuts to accomplish his goals, which were not only about performance but also environmental. Impressive stuff. I'd love to have DBA rotors, and if I were going racing, then I'd insist. But for the street, definitely excessive and expensive.

Plus, I've always liked GM-Australia connections: PBR, DBA, Holden, 9-bolts, and probably more. It's like they're part of the family.

I also like DBA's "Motherland" counterpart, EBC, and its British steel. It's also expensive, but not as, and prices on Summit aren't bad.

But any over-the-counter "store" brand and "no name" brand online is going to be fine on the street. They've got to be the biggest selling products anyway, if for no other reason than their mass-access. Some might even be produced by Raybestos and Centric. So if all are generally OK, then it would seem to support the "exploding" rotors being a result of owner neglect, not production.

But like I said before, it's your money and your call, so you've got to do whatever makes you feel most comfortable, based up your own research.

raptere

@@LAFireboyd Thanks for getting in there and giving some insightful background. One other thing I noticed in both cases if you look at the painted rotor hats, there are bright worn spots at the outside edge. I have seen other rotors removed after many thousands of miles of use, and the black is still continuous. The surface is just being clamped, there should be no movement there. This makes me wonder if in both cases lugs were, or became loose leading to the failure...I'm sure you would have all kinds of crazy forces with loose lugs and a rotor that is free to move around between the wheel and the hub... Is this possible, or does the paint on that surface inevitably ware off?

Based on your experience, and understanding of the market. Would you say there is any quality difference between Raybestos and Centric at this point. I'm trying to figure out if there would really be any reliability benefit to going to planin 120 series Centric rotors over these, or if I just give them a try, bed them properly, and keep my lugs tight...




Here is what looks to be a normally warn rotor:

raptere

Maybe I'm crazy, but decided to give them a shot next closest option was the EBC slotted rotors and those were twice the price... If they ever fail on me, ill be sure to share here! I just don't see it happening given they way I'm going to be using them, and how widespread they are sold and used...

raptere

All installed, completed my first autox event and drove about 300 mi, no problems yet...

The whole story is available here:
ATS (C7 Base) brakes on a 91 Z28 - My Experience - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

raptere

Two more autox events, and a good amount more street driving and these rotors are still performing great. The slight growl I was hearing/feeling from the slots in the beginning seems to be quieting down too for whatever reason, so that is nice...

raptere

Another season of autocrossing on the books using these rotors. No issues to report!