WaaX

I think somethings wrong with my choke. Today the choke light came on and a loud buzzing noise was happening everytime the choke light came on. The buzzing noise was compairable to the door buzzer but not really. When I got to my boss's house in the morning, I parked. He wanted me to move my car and it wouldnt start. He use to be a mechanic so he said to hold the gas all the way down and try starting it, it started but BARELY ran *with full throttle*, and all of a sudden it ran fine. The buzzing also goes through my aftermarket stereo when the volumes low. I think there is a short somewhere. I dont really know what to do at this moment. The buzzing is coming from behind the ALDL connector. Any help is greatly appreciated. Also, my car is not nearly as fast as it should be. It sounds normal but the acceleration just really isnt there.

Air_Adam

Whats your voltage guage read? The 'choke' light is actually the 'alternator' light... if the alternator s*its the bed, or the belt comes off, that light will come on. Check your alternator and belts first.

WaaX

Alternator was acting fine. The voltage gauge was actually reading higher than normal throughout the day. Allthough when I started my car after leaving work, the voltage was REALLY low but when I started accelerating, it picked right up. Also, the belt is fine.

WaaX

moved thread to tech/general.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

The area behind the ALDL is the convenience center.Besides the hazard flasher,horn relay,warning buzzer, is your choke relay.Perhaps that is the source of the buzz? Your choke may faulty due to the relay.If the choke is not working properly.This would leave the air valve(butterflies)closed(cold start)causing an overly rich mixture.This may explain why it would'nt start at your boss's house.Opening the throttle wide open would allow more air into the eng reducing the over rich mixture.Allowing the eng to start, but run rough.After the eng cleared itself of excess fuel it then ran fine again.Start by checking the choke relay,choke itself & wiring.

WaaX

Wow thanks.. Something is wrong with the wiring around the convenience center area.. My audio cuts out the front right speaker and if I hit that area with my fist kinda hard, it cuts back in. Also when im slowing down, it will cut out.

At the moment what ive done to fix it is take a mcdonalds wrapper and shoving it in the linkage area keeping the choke open. Ive also disconnected the wire for the choke because that makes the light on/buzzing happen. My car even seems faster because of it too.

As far as this convienence center is concerned, how do I access it? I saw like three hex shaped bolts holding it up there. I have the top kick panel thing taken off because I havent put it back on since I wired up my audio amplifier.

Also. I recently picked up a non-cc qjet from my moms boyfriend thats "geared towards a high performance engine, not stock". Said he picked it up in georgia in the early 90s. The guy he bought it from said that he used it in races that you had to have stock equipment. I kind of want to switch carbs but the choke has like a vacuum tube thing coming out of it. Manual choke? How would I hook that up.

With that carbuerator I wouldnt have to worry about the electric choke and ill just find the relay and disconnect it. Hoping that will remedy my weird audio problems as well.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Actually disconnecting the wire to the choke should make the choke light come on.So something is going on with your wiring &/or relay.Perhaps when you wired up the amp!As for accessing the convenience center.There are 2 plastic tabs on the sides of the CC panel.Push them in towrds each other & pull the unit down.That carb you mentioned has a hot air choke(not vacume).They work by using eng heat to heat up the choke coil.Making the coil open which in turn opens your air valve.You could maybe make the stock choke fit or switch out the entire choke housing with your stock unit.However then you have the deal with the MC & solenoid.Which means now you have the check eng light,if not the choke to deal with as well.If it were me id stick with the stock Qjet.Or at least fix your choke before you start adding other potential problems to your current situation.

WaaX

My check engine light has been on ever since I owned this car. I think it came stock with a computer controlled qjet, allthough im not too sure on that. The buzzing that goes through my speakers sounds just like the buzzer for the door, Im pretty sure that means the buzzer circuit is to blame, or at least somewhere around that. Ill check it out tomorrow sometime and see if I cant find any bare wires or anything weird.

naf

iTrader: (7)

1) pull your trouble codes. see faq section on this home page.
2) check your battery voltage with engine off, should be 12.5 or so, then check it with engine running, should increase a volt or so.
3) check your choke wire for 12 volts, connect voltmeter to choke wire and a ground (your engine is fine). if you don't have 12 volts here you'll have to check the relay under the panel. if it's not sending voltage your choke's not open
4) do not rely on your dash panel voltage guage it's mostly just eye candy

You'll likely find that your alternator or battery is bad. If you don't have a meter, take it by autozone or the equivalent and they can check it for free.

WaaX

Im almost convinced that a speaker wire is somehow getting crossed with the buzzer/choke +12/gnd.

Key on acc/choke wire off = Loud buzzing through stereo regardless of stereo volume, Loud buzzing coming from behind aldl connector

Key on acc/choke wire on = normal

Car on/choke wire off = normal

Car on/choke wire on = Loud buzzing through stereo regardless of stereo volume, Loud buzzing coming from behind aldl connector.

I havent had a chance to really dig around and find a short, I will get to it soon hopefully. This weekend seems like a good time.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Low voltage can cause the relay to buzz. Although it may not be your most likely case, a bad alternator or battery is near the top of the most dangerous as most other cases (bad choke, relay, ground wire, etc.) won't leave you stranded.

It's also the easiest to check and rule out.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Is the noise coming from behind the ALDL & the Stereo(speakers).What about wihth the radio turned off.If you still get the buzzung noise.Then the cause is probably in the wire to the speakers.Also is only one speaker or all your speakers buzzing.

WaaX

Yes, its coming from both behind the ALDL & all the speakers. Radio turned off its just behind the ALDL. My front passenger speaker keeps cutting out occaisionally. It was loose at the terminals, fixed that but the main problems are still there.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

If its only buzzing out the speakers when the radio is on.Then it may have to do with the amp.If the speaker wire was getting crossed/shorted you'd still hear buzzing from the speakers regardless.Thats my guess anyway!

WaaX

I noticed tonight that my choke light stays dimly lit when its buzzing. My stereo, if the volumes zero, is silent. But any bit of volume causes it to make the same noise as my buzzer behind the ALDL. The volume of the noise is pretty loud and the noise is kind of distorted. The volume of the noise doesnt change, its consistant too.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Your problem is the alternator.

The "Choke" light DOESN'T tell you whether the choke is working or not. What it tells you, is WHETHER THE ALTERNATOR IS WORKING. The reason it's labelled "Choke" is because there's a relay in that circuit, that prevents power from being fed to the choke pull-off heater & thermostat, so that you won't simulate a warmed-up engine by just leaving the key "On". Instead, power is only fed to the choke, WHEN THE ALTERNATOR IS GENERATING POWER. The labelling of the light is probably an emissions thing (although I wasn't present in the conference room when the decision was made, so I can't be sure about that...) since if the alt is not working, and if the car is driven anyway, the choke will stay closed, and the car will pollute something ungodly as a result. And as we all know the enviroNazis can't have that, so the light is mis-labelled.

The buzzing and dimly lit light occur because the alternator is working 2/3 of the time, but not the other 1/3. It's a little 3-phase generator. The buzzing is the relay alternately dropping out and pulling in tens to hundreds of times a second; and the radio is similarly affected, because the power fed to it is not a smooth steady stream but rather has hundreds of peaks and valleys per second. The voltmeter will appear to register just fine and the battery will stay charged in spite of all that when this goes wrong with the alt, but all sorts of other weird things will happen.

The defective component in the alt that causes this is usually the diode trio. It's also possible for the rectifier to cause it but not as common.

Disconnecting the choke wire makes no difference in a properly operating charging system, will NOT light the light. The light isn't about the choke, it's about the ALTERNATOR. Forget about the choke, hook the wire back up and leave it alone, it's not broken.

"Codes" won't tell you anything. Don't waste the effort (not that it's alot, but still...). Proceed directly to the cause, bypass dinking around.

Forget about changing out stereo stuff. The stereo ISN'T the problem, it's not broken, it's A VICTIM of the actual problem which is the ALT. Dinking with speakers isn't going to get all that AC off of the 12 VDC power supply to the radio and amp. Hook it back up and leave it alone.

Change the alternator. Yeah it acts weird, we know that, posting more stuff about how weird it acts just confirms the diagnosis some more, so just go change the alt, and come back and tell us what happened.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Sometimes sofakingdoms matter of fact "i'm always right" attitude bugs people. I usually follow his advice to the T, just to try to prove him wrong.
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.
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Hasn't happened yet.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Its amazing how the ALTERNATER causes the buzzing even when the ENGINE IF OFF(as in NOT running).What this means is that the alternater is also not running.Making it rather difficult to still make a buzzing noise.As stated by WaaX in a earlier post.Example:Key on Acc/choke wire off=loud buzzing-that means the key is turned back.So the engine cant be running!!I dont know about your car/wiring, but when i disconnect my choke wire,my choke light will come on.When i reconnect it the light will go out(no buzzing either time).That to me is a properly functioning choke(or at least the wiring).I had a alternator go out on me once(2 of the didode trios burnt out).I never so much as heard a beep.Let alone a buzz from any where on or in my car.The only symptom was a fluctuating needle on my gauge.If you want to test an alternator.Start your car,let it idle,turn on ALL your lights,hook a digital volt meter to the batt.A good alt will supply between 12.5-13.8 volts with the battery thats with the eng idling & your headlights on.Also the only time the choke doesnt receive power is when the key is on Acc.You should have 12 volts with the eng off & key turn to on.If a bad alt caused the choke to stay closed.Pollution(as you put it)would be the least of your worries.Youd be lucky to be able to drive the vehicle.The only light on a car that warns you of a faulty/bad alternator.Is a car with IDIOT lights,not one with full gauges.

Air_Adam

Like I said.... "alternator light"

WaaX

Ahh, thank you guys. I dont have the money to replace my alternator right now but I think its still covered under warrenty at autozone.. I'll replace it and tell you guys the results when I get the chance



I never would have thought it was my alternator. It makes perfect sense now that sofaking explained it to me. I even hear it in my amplifiers fan (current fluctuations) and sometimes my tach jumps a little bit.

Im not too worried about the whole emmissions thing.. Thats why I love michigan so much =]

One of these days ill be driving and pass out due to carbon monoxide poisoning, I swear.

Air_Adam

I would have tried to explain it, but I knew I'd just baffle you, confuse myself, and end up talking in a circle. It was better left to someone like Sofa

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, you should not.

That's the purpose of the RELAY that's making the buzzing noise. If your car has 12V with the key on and the engine not running, the wiring has been hacked on.

Here's the schematic for the charging circuit, out of the GM service manual. Obsever the relay, which is in parallel with the "Choke" light; and observe that the choke will only receive power when the relay coil DOES NOT receive power, which is also when the "Choke" light is not lit. Note that one side of the light and relay coil are fed 12V from the switch, and if the alt is not working, current can flow from the switch through the light and relay coil, through the diode trio in the alt, to ground. When the alt is working, 12V is also applied to the coil & bulb by the diode trio, and since current doesn't flow between 2 points of equal voltage, the light goes out and the relay drops out, applying juice to the choke coil. You will however measure 12V at the choke wire with a voltmeter, but IF AND ONLY IF the wire is disconnected; because you'll be seeing battery through the light bulb. Hook the wire up, and since the bulb only allows a VERY SMALL amount of current through, nowhere near enough to actually heat the choke, the voltage applied to the choke coil will be VERY VERY LOW in a normally operating car, and the choke will do nothing.


{edit}hmmm...... looks like I should have shrunk that....

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, i forgot, Sonix is right, I'm a jerk and an a**hole. I'm extremely reality-oriented, and not too much of the warm and fuzzy type. You just have to overlook that, and accept my advice for what it's worth; which is exactly what I charged you for it. Nothing.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Here's a better copy of the schematic, out of a different year manual. And of course sized to fit the screen better.

Damon

Sofa- you're obviously better with electrical diagrams that I am, so if you don't mind, I've got a question....

On the relay am I reading it correctly that it's default position is to send power to the choke heater (i.e. if both poles have equal voltage the relay is not engergized, but that voltage is sent to the choke heater)?

I can't for the life of me figure out how that circuit could ever do it's job to indicate if the choke itself was bad or physically unplugged. I mean, it seems to be completely deaf to what's going on at the end of the choke heater wire, no? Plenty sensitive to a bad alternator, but how the heck could it know if there was a problem with the choke and light that same bulb?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You're exactly right Damon. The circuit has no way to "know" whether the choke is unplugged or not (which is why uplugging the choke doesn't light the light, as I debunked the myth above); all that the light's connection with the choke is, is that if the alt isn't working and the choke will therefore never pull off, then the light will show that.

Again, strictly an emissions **** kind of thing, as far as I can see. Evidently they got their concerns elevated in importance to the point where they were able to override common sense. It seems beyond merely stupid to me, to mislabel one of the most important "danger" warning lights like that, to where there's no way that an uneducated operator of the car would actually know what to do and would do the right thing based on what it says; but they didn't ask me before they did it, so I guess now we're just stuck with it.

Think of the relay as being like the light, in terms of its "default" position. Light on = unhappy = relay operated = cuts off power to the choke; light off = happy = relay released = allows power to the choke.

Damon

You know, I'm going to post up the equivalent circuit from a similar vintage computer controlled carb Buick Regal I worked on several years ago- if I can find the diagram. It's surprising how different it is, and how much simpler, considering it's supposed to accomplish basically the same thing. And, by the way, it actually IS sensitive to whether the choke is hooked up or not.

I will look for it tonight.

Does the choke circuit on a 3rd gen go through an oil pressure switch somewhere? I seem to recall it does- I KNOW it does on the Buick.

Now where is that damned diagram????..............

Damon

Couldn't find it. Naturally.

Apeiron

No, the thirdgen uses the alternator wire to tell if the car is running.

Smellofrubber

Hello all...
Hopefully this is still some help on this subject. I have an 85 camero 305, with the quad-a-junk. About a week ago my Choke light came on as well, I have checked and the choke is working perfect. I took the above suggestion and replaced the alt (key board is getting greasy as I type here) but the choke light is still on. What should I look at next. Oh BTY my seat bealt light is on also it is very dim but on, this came on during my drive about 10 minutes after the choke light came on. The 3rd gen expert at the part store is pretty sure that the choke light is wired thru the oil pressure switch also. Any and all help will be greatly appreicated.

trumps2000

iTrader: (2)

Check the C/H Fan fuse, my was blown and caused this problem as well. If you ever want to know anything electrical about the 85s or 86s look under the electrical tech articles from the thirdgen homepage, tons of schematics.

Smellofrubber

Thanks! the problem is fixed! It wasnt my C/H fuse but my gauges fuse.

...Thanks for the extra info

trumps2000

iTrader: (2)

Good to hear, glad to help!

8492bird

FWIW - I know this to be true on my '84 but don't know to what year the carbed thirdgens still had this feature - a blown fuse or other electrical problem will cause the CHOKE light to come on. A blown fuse is always the first thing I look for when that light comes on.