Pab's

iTrader: (2)

Ok so here it goes I got this car with a blown head gasket replaced heads with zz4 heads and 190* thermostat. The car idle's at 160* and would go up to 220* in traffic and highway, the mech that did the swap put straight anti-freeze, so in order to help the temp down I flushed the radiator added wetter water and distilled water for a better mix. And now it shoots up to 230* and Im not even ragging on it! WTF.

So here are my thoughts Im on a budget so I cant go 3 row with dual fan's (cost for said set up is $550). I was thinking of doing an aluminum 1 row rad with a dual fan set up that blow's 4000 cfm ($350).



Notes: NO! the air dam is not in place just purchased one waiting for it to arrive

Red 87 GTA

dump the system then fill 50/50 premix antifreeze then bleed the system i dont know why but this is forgotten. let it up to operating temp with the cap off

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

and then do what just put the cap back on?

Ok and if I do this you think its going to help my overheating issues...remember it used to overheat before I first flushed it.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

boiling point of water is higher than antifreeze so you might actually see a little higher temps. are you sure the temperature gauge is working correctly?

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

It felt significantly warmer inside the car when it was creeping up to 230* I dont know if the temp is correct, how do I test it?

camaronewbie

Car still have the air dam underneath? These cars do not overheat on the road AND stay cool at an idle unless the air dam is gone or damaged.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

......sigh lol

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

haha prolly it

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

yeah but it still runs warmer even idling....oh well I went ahead and got a champion 2 core all aluminum radiator.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Camar...ht_6902wt_1165

hey guy's since I got this radiator im thinking of up grading the electric fans....how much cfm should I look for in the fans in order for it to cool a mildly built up motor?

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

4th gen fans. no problemo

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

what you think about this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ZIRGO...#ht_2635wt_939

only a 15 amp draw and 3000 cfm not bad at all

bradley23150

iTrader: (10)

If it isnt boiling out of the overflow, it isnt overheating. My car without an air dam ran between 220-240 and one day hit 260 and really overheated, had to pull over and smoke was everywhere, etc... Now that I have an airdam 220 is as high as it will get, and that is perfectly acceptable for these cars. I know you said you ordered one, thats good. Once you install it you will notice a drop in temperature while driving. But, 220 is a normal temperature for a thirdgen to be at. If you get a cowl hood that temp will drop because the hot air will escape through the cowl. My camaro with a cowl hood ran at 190 all day long.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

Thanks I was wondering if it was somewhat normal what had me a little freaked out is that I have aluminum heads. I would like for the temp to stay under 200 at all times if possible.

matts86cam

iTrader: (1)

Is it normal for the temp to go up and down constantly? For instance cruising at 55mph temp 200 then get into town at 25mph and it drops to 160-170. My other car stays the same temp all of the time.

Not trying to hijack PAB'S just thought you had it figured out.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

well I think the 3000 cfm and 2 core aluminum rad will help some....oh yeah and the air dam lol

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

ok hold on here. ANTIFREEZE HAS A HIGHER BOILING POINT THAN WATER. now if it is all antifreeze it will run hotter. WATER IS THE BEST COOLANT. what you need to do is drain everything. add one gallon antifreeze, then the rest water with one water wetter bottle in. then go from there.make sure the airdam is in. get a newer thermostat. make sure all the air is out of the cooling system. when filling the cooling system back up from being drained i leave the upper radiator hose off till i fill it that high. then put it on and continue filling.

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

The boiling point of water: 212 F
The boiling point of ethylene glycol : ~388 F

What is ideal in the car is a solution that enables us to take advantage of the increased boiling point because of the pressurized nature of the system.

When I install thermostats now, I drill small bleed holes to help bleed some air out of the system.

Stick a thermometer right into the neck of the radiator to see the actual temperatures, those gauges and the temperature sender are inaccurate. I replaced the temperature sender like 6 times until I found a good one (an AC Delco).

Camaro305SB

That is totally not true, mine gets hot (220 or so) as I'm driving and dips back down to 190 or so when I'm idling. With the air dam completely intact. Granted this is not normal and there is an underlying issue, I though I'd chime in so the OP doesn't go around chasing an issue that isn't causing his concern.

OP I'd make sure the system is clean and flowing with no air pockets, then check the actual coolant temp and see if the sensor is just reading inaccurate. My advice though - don't add ANY aftermarket parts until the system is working as designed or its going to be that much harder to diagnose.

DJP87Z28

I had problem with running hot with the A/C on during in town driving. I kept lossing coolant until I found a leak in the lower radiator. Short story, after the radiator was pulled I found the real problem: Complete blockage of the cooling fins behind the A/C condensor (about 40% of the cooling fins). No wonder I had a cooling problem in stop & go traffic.

This area is completely hidden unless you remove a lot parts. Replaced the Radiator and now with the A/C on or off in town 180 deg Max and lower on the highway. My problem solved.

So check that hidden area.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I meant that backwards sorry. thanks for correcting me. water boils before antifreeze. I know that. my bad!

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you are throwing unnecessary money at the problem without trying the air dam first. These cars cool fine with the stock radiator and fans. I do track days and can be out on the track for 30 minutes getting up to 130mph every lap and have no cooling issues.

dippin88

Hey bro I have an 89 iroc engine for sale Tpi 5.7 for 900obo includes engine trans harness and headers lemme know if u interested

Krik

iTrader: (4)

I love Water Wetter! That said, you need that air dam. GM wouldn't put that ugly thing on there if it wasn't necessary. Once you get that on there you should be good to go.

Another thing to consider is air pockets. Get the motor up to operating temperature, drive the car on a steep incline and decline with the heater selector set to hot. Make sure you have hot air blowing out of the vents to confirm water is flowing. This will help coax those air pockets to work themselves loose. Sometimes you just need to drive it for a while to get them out. My 97 Blazer took months to get them out of the heater core.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

87350IROC: I dont agree that spending money on a good radiator and fan is a waste. If it dint happen now it would have been done anyhow. Texas is also way hotter than WA I bet you guy's flip out if you hit 90*, so do we but because its normally closer to 100*

Dippin: No thanks I dont need another motor hehe

Krick: Im fully aware I need the air dam but it got hotter with wetter water WTF? lol

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Meh, I've also lived in Pennsylvania and Missouri where its 100 degrees and 90% humidity every day.

Regardless I guarantee you beating the **** out of a car for 30mins on a track in 90 degree weather is way harder on the cooling system than driving home from work in 110.

A high performance radiator is not a waste of money. But it will not solve your problem.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

I agree it wont solve the problem by itself but that's why Im doing all 3

1. Air dam
2. Radiator
3. High cfm fan

plus Im also going to check into the pump, stat and whatever else I can think of.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a plan. Be sure to check out Spal for fans and Stewart for water pumps.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

Are water pumps like fuel pumps? Can I get one that flows more?

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

use a 160 stat and hypertech 160 switch and that will lower the temp mine never sees over 200 with the AC

Krik

iTrader: (4)

I read somewhere that you will need to reprogram your prom if you use a 160 degree thermostat. A 180 is the way to go if you are sticking to stock PROM settings.

Not my 1st hand knowledge, but what I have read on these forums.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

I heard that too

91 1LE

iTrader: (1)

You are both wrong. No reprogramming of the ECM is not required and your car will still go into closed-loop operation, even with the 160* thermostat. It's the fan switch that controls when the fans turn on and if you get the correct one for your thermostat temp you will be fine. Just make sure you fans come on after the thermostat is open. I use a 170* thermostat and my fan kicks on at 195* and have never seen water temps over 205* here in the AZ summer with a stock cooling set-up and 425HP.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

I will concede that there are two schools of thought on the subject. I announced that I was no expert on the subject and was just reposting what I had read.

Camaro305SB

This should be posted in large letters at the top of all forum pages - except it should pertain to ALL parts on the car. The general doesn't spend money unless he has to, and I keep reading of people removing components basically because they are "there" and think they are useless or to "clean up" the engine bay (whatever the hell that means).

Krik

iTrader: (4)

The General designed these cars to be daily drivers. If you are going to use the car for extreme purposes then some items on the car can be altered with little to no consequence. I have rerouted the hot water that once flowed through the throttle-body. I will never drive the car in sub zero conditions so there is a distinct advantage to having cooler air in the motor when I do drive her.

Another example is the baffles under the air filters. They make the car a bit louder, but that isn't a problem for me, especially at the gain of a slight hp upgrade.

I have kept all the original parts, and I could restore it back to stock in a couple of hours if I needed to.

tl;dr
Make your car your own, but know the consequences for your actions in advance.

naf

iTrader: (7)

If it's not boiling over it's not overheating.

The boiling points of water and anti-freeze are not indicators of their thermal properties. The SPECIFIC HEAT of a water/anti-freeze solution is actually LOWER than a pure water solution. We add anti-freeze for two primary reasons: 1) freeze protection (a 50/50 solution won't freeze until near -30 F and 2) corrosion protection (anti-freeze raises the pH of the solution and prevents rust).

Water wetter does not improve the thermal properties of the solution either. It does, however, help prevent cavitation which is the formation of small pockets of water vapor in the system. Cavitation is bad because these pockets prevent the coolant from having direct contact with the pieces it needs to cool.

A high flow pump can cause cavitation, which is bad (see above). A high flow pump may push water through the system faster than it can be fed from the bottom rad hose. Water wetter probably doesn't have enough miracle powers to prevent this type of cavitation.

What are your real temperatures? I mean the actually 'measured' temp? Do not be confused into thinking that the pointy, wavy thing on your dash is any indication of the actual state of nature at the end of the sensor.

How is your tune? A well tuned motor runs cooler because it's running EFFICIENTLY. It will produce the least heat for a given power requirement.

If it's not boiling over it's not overheating.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

You have hit on my number one concern with this. First of all make sure the ignition timing is set correctly and not retarded. It shold be 6* advance at hot idle with the EST connector unplugged.

Also, I'm assuming you're aware that you significantly raised your compression ratio by swapping to those heads? The stock heads have 64cc chambers and the heads you just put on have 58cc chambers. This raises your compression ratio to about 10.3:1. Your cooling system should still be able to cool it, but be careful with the ignition timing. You have aluminum heads but you also raised the compression. To get the most out of your combo you should have it tuned.

Again, not saying the compression is causing your cooling problem, but want to make you aware that you have significantly raised your compression.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

Well Im back in the states!!! I got my air dam on ASAP and that did it, now my car temp wont go above 160*

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Great.

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

Thats not entirely true. The ECM will think the car is still warming up and the car will run rich, especially during the winter.

Reference:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-persists.html

Also, the primary fan should be ECM controlled.

stroker_SS

Imo, you're worse off than before. Your engine will produce more power and wear less at 195*. Get a proper thermostat, your engine is begging you.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

I have a 190* stat I dont know why it wont go above 160*

naf

iTrader: (7)

My temp guage broke once and, amazingly, my engine would not run above 100 degrees for several weeks. When I fixed the guage the engine suddenly decided to start running hotter. Bummer...

built91Z28

This means either you have a fualty thermostat, or your guage is inaccurate. I would go with the later. When I put all Auto Meter guages in my car, my temp instantly read 20 or so degress hotter. I trust the new Auto Meter guage more than 20 year old factory guages. Especially since now as soon as my guage hits 180, I can watch it go back down a little, then back up. I'm running a 180 thermostat. I would get an infared thermometer and measure the radiator to see what it actually is. And I agree that 160 is too cold. If you have a 190 thermo and thats what its actually running at, then that is good.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

i figured that Ill go ahead and get an accurate reading