My damn security relay in the kick panel went out again. Is there a way to bypass this thing? It's on a 91 RS 305. I have a new one on order so if I can bypass it I would like to save the money. The part will be here tomorrow. Thanks, Rick

Two things you can do

1. you can cut the wiring coming from the neutral safty switch and also cut the wire that goes to the starter and crimp them together. This would totaly bypass the relay.

2. Cut the two wires for your 12V and ground on the control part of the relay. Find an ignition wire in your fuse box that is a (hot in run) and then rigg up a toggle switch to ground and this would still requir a relay but it turns it into a starter kill switch. But if your relay is the problem then you could cut all the wires and wire in some AUtozone relay that you could pick up for pretty cheep.

I have the panels taken out and looking for the damn wires. Where will I find the safety wire at?

It will be the heavier two wires. Out of the four wires two are a smaller gauge, the other two being larger gauge. Tying the two heavy gauge wires together will bypass the relay. Colors are most likely DK GRN and YEL.

RBob.

Are you refering to the wire harness that connects to the relay in the kick panel? If so I have the large Yellow wire and the other end is the large Tan/White wire. I just connect the two and do not connect plug to the relay?

Sorry took so long for response, been working on my truck.

Thanks,

O.k. here are some pictures that I just took. I cannot find the wires needed to bypass the VATS. Can someone help me pretty please. In picture #2 I tried jumpering the large Yellow Wire to the large Brown Wire/White Stripe. No workie.

More pictures below.

More pictures of stuff that I'm not sure will help.

By the way, the two connections in the left hand picture are for what?

Thanks,

Rick

Here is the VATS circuit
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...m_pass-key.jpg

Pic #2 is the starter kill relay
Option A is to connect the two heavy wires
Option B is to ground the blk/yel wire

In your second set of pics you can see the starter wires at the 2 pin connector not connected to anything. This looks like a T5 clutch switch. Whatever it is, those need to be connected somehow for your starter to engage

The larger connector gives 12v to the rear lights and pull down motor

In the second picture I tried connecting the two large wires. It didn't do anything. I guess I will try grounding the small yellow/black wire and see if that works.

I don't see where the two plugs that are not connected, connect to. There is no open connectors.

With the two wires not connected any starter kill relay bridges will do nothing

I don't want to sound like a moron, but which two wires are you referring to?

There are two locations that will break the connection to the starter solenoid. The interrupt relay and the park/neutral switch. If a stick car then it is a clutch pedal switch. This is the 2-wire connector just hanging there. Since your car has an auto this connector is not used.

So, jumper the two heavy wires together on the relay. If still no starter then check the park/neutral switch. That too needs to be closed.

If you have a DVM you may want to check for voltage at each point while the key is in the crank position. There may be an issue with a fusible link or such.

RBob.

O.k. I have now jumpered the two larger wires on the relay plug. (Tan White stripe & Yellow Wires) No luck. I have also tried grounding the Black Yellow stripe wire in the relay wire harness. Still not working. I need my car running this weekend. I will check the Park/Neutral Switch tomorrow night and see if that's the ticket. I'm sure I will be asking for other idea's.

Alright, the starter circuit is not as hard as you're making it out to be

Here are the connectors and circuits we're talking about color coded

Blue means bridge

If this circuit does not allow your starter to work then the wiring is cut or spliced somewhere in the works whether via aftermarket or user error

O.k. well the first of your altered pictures shows the two large wires being linked together. Already done that as I have stated before.

The second altered picture shows linking the clutch switch wires together. I have an automatic. If this will work then great, but nobody has said just link the two together even though my car is an auto. Also with the above information, do I need to do both or just one or the other?

Thanks for your time and help.

In an electrical circuit the path must be closed for it to work. One jumper or one hundred jumpers, you need to close the circuit

Your car is an auto and it has a clutch switch?

Something screwy is going on there. Was your car originally a auto or manual? Was the dash harness original to the car?

Whatever, the auto shifter has a starter switch in it which must also be jumpered for this test. Jump the two large wires, but it really doesnt make sense since the input should be tan/wht or dk grn and the output is ALWAYS purple as it goes directly to the starter solenoid. The clutch switch already has the purple output so by simple reasoning the clutch switch shown should be the end of the line as far as your interior wiring is concerned. Jump the clutch switch and the auto shifter connector

I understand how a circuit needs to be closed in order for it to work. The clutch switch was never attached to anything before. That is why I wondered why I would need to bridge them together...

My car is all stock wiring as far as I can tell.

The clutch switch is just part of the oem wiring, just not used due to it being an automatic.

GM put both the park/neutral connector and the clutch switch connector in the harness. Then used whichever one is required. They are in parallel. So if the prk/neut switch is bad jumpering the clutch switch will work.

However, this also means that the engine will start with the transmission in drive or reverse.

Best bet is to get a voltmeter and see if there is power at those wires during cranking. The problem may be elsewhere. The starter solenoid may even be bad.

RBob.

With everything wired together, the little relay in the kick panel just buzzes. With the top cover of it taken off and watching it as I turn the key, the little "actuator arm" in there just goes back and forth really fast. I was lucky enough to see the actuator arm pull towards the middle of the relay and make contact with the contact on that side and the car started right up. I tried to just hold it over there and turn the car over but that didn't work either.

I don't want my car to start when in D or R. Kids getting close to old enough to drive. So that really isn't an option for me.

I will throw a volt meter on the two large wires in the kick panel relay and see what I'm getting when I'm cranking.

Jumpering the clutch or neutral switches won't fix it if the problem is actually the VATS module.

On a third gen you can physically bypass the VATS module with a wiring jumper.

I had to do it on my 91 RS when I put a non computer controlled engine into it.

If I remember right it was a 10 or 12 gauge purple wire coming out of the VATS module that headed to the starter and a red wire of matching gauge coming into the VATS module and I just had to connect the dots.

There is a mechanics bypass harness that the dealer uses to trouble shoot VATS issues and this just mimics the same thing their jumper harness does but permanently.

His problem is not being able to spin the engine over

Jumping the starter relay will allow this regardless of VATS' condition

If you are function testing the starter sure jumping the terminals on the starter solenoid will tell you that it does function.

Mine wouldn't crank either after only the ECM and TBI system was removed but the correct ignition key & VATS system and stock shifter with neutral safety switch were still intact.

Something in the VATS module communicated with the ECM to allow the starter solenoid wire to be energized. I traced the purple wire from the starter solenoid back to the VATS module and found the start position hot wire into the VATS module and connected them together so it eliminated the VATS module from the starter circuit.

There was no power through the VATS module to get to the starter solenoid when the key was turned. If there is no juice to the neutral safety switch then jumpering it will do nothing. I think the problem is up stream of the neutral safety switch.

A bad ignition lock cylinder not sensing the chip resistance properly could cause this also in addition to a bad VATS module. The ignition lock failed on my 95 Firebird and caused the VATS system to not function so it can happen on a third gen too.

on my 89 there is a large yellow wire going into vats mod and large green coming out from it i simply spliced the two together and it works great now no more vats!

You know one thing that has not been mentioned. Is the ignition switch. That could of went bad. Trust me Mine did and i turn it over and nothing no crank ect.. and my is all carb. so just possible area you might check its ON top of the steering column shaft. Basically take the two bolts out that holds the steering column up and then get back up and look down the shaft on top of the steering column. check there mine actually burned by being old.

I found I was not getting voltage down to the relay in the kick panel. I thumped the ignition switch a couple of times and then I got power. I replaced the ignition switch. I was getting the relay to buzz and very seldom actually start the car. So I spliced the large Yellow wire and the Tan/White wire going into the relay plug together and she fires up every time now. I think that my starter is giving me some problems too though. I didn't wrap my headers when I installed them so I think the heat is having it's way with my starter as well. But I did get it going and I would like to thank everyone on here helping me out with diagnosing my problem.

Thanks again,

Rick