davveek

hey i have a 350 tbi with a thumpr cam and 454 tbi cop car injectors 11:1 compression and a th400 i have all the stuff to do real time tuning and chip burning and tunerpro and havent ever tuned before. can anyone help me to get it close. it wont idle runs a 10.9 on my wideband havent hooked up the tuning stuff yet i dont want to mess it up too bad.i really just basically need help with how the fuel and timing tables work. any answers will be helpful thanks

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Nothing like starting out with something easy to tune. I am going to assume that this is a C3 style ECM. Change the BPC to match the injector/engine displacement ratio, then work on the VE table.

Hit tuning guide book sticky up top and hit the links in chapter 5 under the '8746/'8063/'7747 ECM section.

RBob.

Dominic Sorresso

You've just jumped down the proverbial "rabbit hole".
Welcome to Wonderland Alice!

davveek

where do i change the bpc? ihave never seen that. i have tunerpro and my ecm i guess is a 2732 i think i just need to know on the main fuel table to take out fuel do i just subtract from the numbers in there?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Need to know which ECM it is. If it uses the 2732 PROM then it is one of the C3 TBI ECMs. But the service number is what is required.

Need to hit the tuning guide book as I mentioned above. Lots of good reading material.

RBob.

mistaben

there may be an option for injector size you can change first.

if you can set your injectors to appropriate fuel rating.

i know on a 7727 ecm you can... don't know if it is the same for you.

davveek

the ecm number is 16146299 i tried messing with the bpw constant and got it to run a little better but still wont idle i messed around with the main ve fuel table and main spark advance table and i think i may have done something wrong because it wont start now. if at all possible or if you know anyone i can talk to on the phone while im messing with the tables to help me? or do you know of a custom file i can download that may get me closer? it has a th400 tranny so that part dont matter

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

wont start?

key on engine off do you get a blink of CE then solid light on? Injectors firing on crank? Fuel pump running for a while with ign on engine off(priming)?

I wount change spark table until fuel is closer. spark should be conservative as I will guess you are using .bin from truck(1992 5.7L). It is a 5.7L .bin right?

You may have to turn in throttle stop screw to allow it to idle. Temporarily at least.

then datalog 15 min and make needed corrections in bin. If you see a trend then modify cells you did not get a hit in. Then repeat and repeat.

Also check out "free tune " in TBI stickies.

davveek

the truck will run now but only when your reving it up i need to know how you figure out how to know what to put in the cells in the fuel ve table? it dont matter how far i turn the idle screw in it still wont idle on its own ive got the numbers pretty low in the table so i dont think they should be negative right?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Good info here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ning-tips.html

To tune it you have to get it running and idleing. One it is running that cam may play havoc with your NB02 sensor. If there is overlap 02 will read unburned and add a lot of fuel. You wont know that till you are able to datalog it. You may want to try open loop temporarily to see how engine runs w/o the feedback. Your WB tells you what VE cells need a change.

Datalog tells you what cells to adjust with NB running. BLM is shown in log. If BLM is 140 then 140/128= 1.09. add 9% to that cell. In a 15 minute ride you will hit about 20 cells with normal driving. To hit another 20 you will need to find a steep grade and/or hold gear for higher rpms higher MAP. If you are using a 5.7L.bin car should run to datalog.

What injectors and what fuel pressure?

davveek

there is a lot of overlap and i dont have nb o2 hooked up i got wbo2 guage and im running 11-12 psi 65lb injectors cant hook up my iac also so that may have a little but once it warms up should still run wherever i set the idle. ive lowered some of the cells in the fuel table seems like its a little smoother but still dies when you let off. so how do i change from open to closed loop?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

have you datalogged?
I would set idle high enough to get a read on WB of A/F. If at 1100 rpms the WB shows say 11.0 and we can guess 60MAP. that cell you can pull fuel. Even if it runs for short time at say 900 at idle you can capture A/F on WB.

If you have a datalog running you will be able to determine what cells need changing exactly. first step is to get it to idle sufficent well to drive it in a safe area should it die.

ps to run OL you set CL threshold high on temp like 225dF. Disables CL. But it will gobble fuel like no tomorrow aka ***** F+)*^#@

davveek

ok i can get it to run long enough but when i do it dont show the data dash right. all the numbers are wrong and i tried switching the inner switch outboard and the ses flickered and i put it back and the light stays on i dont understand what i am doing wrong.

davveek

could i maybe get you to give me a call for a few minutes so i can do something on it and tell you whats going on so i can understand it a little better

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Do you have the prom in backward?

a rapid blink of CE indicates a faulty prom.

I am not the one that knows hardware. I purchased dynamicefi ECU some time ago. It is a flash based system. No chips.

Maybe you can outline exactly what you do when you burn a chip. Stacking may be the issue. I am not sure. Stacking has been covered may times if that is it.

That would suggest an incorrect mask? What xdf are you using? Is it correct for your ECU?

davveek

i am using an emulator and i put it in the way the instructions said the red wire toward the notch in the zif should i try to turn it around? would it still run with it backward?

davveek

do you think i might be able to use a different bin file like the $42 one instead of the $99 because it looks like it has some different tables and scalars than mine does. would that work or not? just trying to get it to idle i think i can get it from there once i get the datalogging going and running on its own.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

You need to use a mask xdf specific for your ECU. $42 only works for 7747. $61 only works for 8746. All ECU's have differing .bins for different engines, trannys, California, etc.

It will run if something is in error off the calpack (limp mode). Hopefull someone here will offer a suggestion. Which emulator? Ostrich?

davveek

the emulator cable goes in where the chip originally goes and that cable connects to the moates autoprom apu1 and there is a obd1 cable that connects in there also and you burn the chip on the autoprom

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I would give Moates a call. I believe it is a procedural error on your part. The .bin is most likely corrupt as no blink then solid.

davveek

ok now i have the right on my mask id is $99 and my ecu is the 16146299 and everything else seems to work right except that. is there anyway that you could possibly give me a call to help me real quick and i think i could catch on

davveek

moates dont ever answer and their only open monday wednesday and friday

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I have never used autoprom or ostrich or any others. Post a new thread on auto prom first use. Maybe someone here can walk you through it. Does Moates offer directions on his site to review?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...n-problem.html

search for autoprom and you may find some better directions...

davveek

i went back out found out i had the wrong adx loaded sorry but i did run it for about 1 minute and the blm was a 125 and my knock counter was at 31 at 65kpa map what does that say? also 10.9 on the wideband

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

bingo... 125 is very good at that map anyway. What RPM. Was it at idle? Dont tell me 65 MAP is idle? No other cells to report? Vary engine speed in neutral and find others.

KC of 31 I would say dont be concerned. Some knock is mechanical. I think KC goes to 250 and starts over.

davveek

it wasnt really idleing i had to keep it going but it was about 1100-1300 rpm and extremely rich so it really wont rev up too easy past 1700 -1900 rpm

davveek

could the knock be because of the gear drive timing set i have? i forgot about that

davveek

revved it up to about 3500 rpm the blm doesnt move all the way to about 35 map stays at 125 does the integrator matter it also stayed at 128? wb was 10.9 constantly

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

It cant be rich if it shows a BLM of 125. Only pulling 2.4% fuel. Did you get a CL flag? Is exhaust rich? What did WB show? Yep gear drive. may have to disable knock sensor or reduce its # of degrees it pulls. Wont rev pat 1700? If VE cells are too large in values you may need to pull 10% of fuel and retry a log.

davveek

didnt see any flags how do i disable the knock sensor? just zero the knock retard?

davveek

if i change the fuel table wont that change the blm also there is no o2 for the ecm i only have my wbo2 with a guage

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

In options just uncheck flag or set to zero.
you are not in CL. do you have a NB02? In log it will cycle up down up down in V's showing it working. A solid INT means not CL. You are in OL. still need to reduce fuel in VE table and get NB functional. Is it hooked up properly?
I see no WB. choice is you simulate NB with WB or add NB. I have NB working CL and WB as well. you can watch logs and if WB shows rich pull full in that rpm/map cell. 12.0/14.3=.83 so pull 17% or so fuel.

davveek

i dont have a nbo2 is there any way around it? i know with stock engine it runs fine without it cant do it like this?

davveek

so i will try to pull 17% fuel from the table and see how that goes

davveek

sorry dumb question here do i just subtract 17 from the cells?

davveek

the whole table is in % isnt it?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

That was an example. each cell has a diff A/f so you address each cell individually "if you care to do in this manner".

what you should do is hook up WB so it replaces the NB. assuming you do not wish a NB. You need to patch it to the ECM. Check with your manufacturer as to how to do. It should be in instructions that came with. Innovate instructions are on line and it explains how to do. I have Innovate WB. You need a controller of course. uses analog out I recall.

If NB not hooked up you are in limp mode that just gets you to repair shop. You can run OL byut then you have no correction of A/F. Same as running a carb. you could correct the VE table until it gets very good on A/F and not run CL. BUT then you have no correction on air temps. Here in WI this am it was 35F then this PM it will be 50F so CL will correct.

davveek

yeah i was going to just run it in ol until i get a place to install a nbo2 so could you help me with setting it up like this. it should still be able to run right?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I have never set up a WB in place of a NB. Some say use of a WB02 is better than NB. My WB sensor is used in late model VW vehicles. so VW abandoned the NB in favor of WB. Go to Innovate and read the instructions to do so. The controller needs to be programmed for it. What WB do you use? I am certain the instructions that came with address it.

Now to datalog WB values so as to modify .bin for VE I dont have a clue. NB uses INT-BLM to modify VE tables. I bet the log of WB values(A/F) appear in a RPM/MAPor VAC table in the WB software. You may need to then manually + or-% the VE table to achieve desired 14.3/1. Good question to post on Innovate Forum !


page 17. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf