Ostrich 2.0
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I have one, works great! integrates perfectly with Tunerpro RT. Years ago I used a universal type eprom emulator with very mixed success, the Ostrich works perfectly however.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Thanks. I think this is what I'm wanting. I'm new to this and dnt reall know what all is out there.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Can you just plug this thing in and leave it, or do you just use it to get the right tune and then burn an chip w the info off the ostrich?
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
In my Datsun, using a '7749 ECM, I just leave it in place. I have done the same with other ECMs, such as the '7730, '7427, and similar. I have had issues trying to do the same thing with a '7747 and socket booster. I have an idea for a work around, but don't own a vehicle that uses one of those ECMs, so I haven't needed to try any work around.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I have never owned an Ostrich. Are there any negatives what so ever? Such as losing connectivity through use of a ZIF socket. If you loose the connection for any reason do you need a laptop to regain use of .bin? Is batterylife and resuting failure ever a concern? I am pointing out it is considered a temporary use tool. As opposed to EBL that is permanent. EBL also has datalogging capability and VELearn and supports other functions(boost). Apples/oranges?
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
mine's been in solid use since 2007, never had a single issue. Original battery too.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
So this can be used permanently? I dnt know which ECM I have, I'm sure se of you can tell me off the top of your heads. It's an 85 tpi. I'm sure it's the least desirable one. I have the engine out now, but when I get it back in I'm for sure going to need a tune so I'm trying to get some ideas together. I dnt know what direction to go. I want something pretty easy to use and not break the bank.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Many use the O as a permanent install. Sounds like no issues that way? But can the ECU be placed back into its location with O installed? My EBL can and all I see is the datalogging cable which too can be velcroed out of sight.
PS I had connectivity issues with the ZIF socket losing connection over a bump. But my suspension is very firm.
See EBL here dynamicefi.com
PS I had connectivity issues with the ZIF socket losing connection over a bump. But my suspension is very firm.
See EBL here dynamicefi.com
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
This will be my first tuning experience. I've built several engines over the last 15 years or so, but most have been carb and the EFI ones have been all stock so I'm definitely a newb at tuning, but am really interested in getting into it.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
No issues using the Ostrich in a permanent install, many of us have. The ECM can be installed in the factiry location, the Ostrich can be remote mounted or mounted inside the ECM case (in some ECMs, if desired). Battery life should outlive not oy the vehicles they are attached to, but many of us currently posting on this message board.
ZIF sockets can cause problems with any device attached to it, simple solution, don't use a ZIF socket. I don't use one in my car, but have and still do on friend's vehicles, without issue, one even has the EEPROM hanging upside down!
Just like using an EEPROM, code can be swapped in some ECMs that supports boost, so yes it can be used with any current GM OBD1 code, boost or not.
The only "negative" if you want to call it that, is that to datalog and tune at the sqme time, you need to plug in two USB cables, one for the Ostrich and one for the ALDL cable.
I believe the '85 TPI uses s one year only ECM ('302?), but many people swap to a '165 to use either $32 or $6E.
ZIF sockets can cause problems with any device attached to it, simple solution, don't use a ZIF socket. I don't use one in my car, but have and still do on friend's vehicles, without issue, one even has the EEPROM hanging upside down!
Just like using an EEPROM, code can be swapped in some ECMs that supports boost, so yes it can be used with any current GM OBD1 code, boost or not.
The only "negative" if you want to call it that, is that to datalog and tune at the sqme time, you need to plug in two USB cables, one for the Ostrich and one for the ALDL cable.
I believe the '85 TPI uses s one year only ECM ('302?), but many people swap to a '165 to use either $32 or $6E.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I've looked into the EBL and it looks like a great tool for somebody w a lot of mods. Mine just mainly is going to need some "tweaking". This is still the 305, just w hyper pistons, p&p heads, lower intake, tubes, and plenum w a LT1 cam, and RR's. I mainly want It performing the best it can (for a 305) with the stock ECM.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
This is great info, thanks. Will the 165 ECM plug into my 85 harness? Or does using another ECM require a harness change?
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
the 85 uses the 1226870 worst ecm for tpi, the first upgrade you should do is too the 165 or 730.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap/
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap/
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
the 1227165,16198259 or 16198445 is easy to come bye used tpi f and y tpi , the memcal you can start with one from a 305 or 350. application list memcal will change per application.
ASTRO 87-90 ECM (2.5L)
BLAZER S10/JIMMY S15 87-88 (2.5L)
BLAZER S10/JIMMY S15 91 ECM (6-262, 4.3L), ID
BRAVADA 91
CAMARO 86-89 ECM 8-305 (5.0L)
CAMARO 86-89 8-350 (5.7L)
CAVALIER 86 (2.0L), MT
CIMARRON 86 (2.0L), MT
CORVETTE 86-89
FIREBIRD 86-89 8-305 (5.0L), EFI
FIREBIRD 86-89 8-350 (5.7L)
FIRENZA 86 (2.0L), MT
S10/S15/SONOMA 87-91 (2.5L)
S10/S15/SONOMA 91 (4.3L)
SAFARI (GMC) 87-90 ECM (2.5L)
SKYHAWK 86 (2.0L), MT
SUNBIRD 86 (2.0L), MT
ASTRO 87-90 ECM (2.5L)
BLAZER S10/JIMMY S15 87-88 (2.5L)
BLAZER S10/JIMMY S15 91 ECM (6-262, 4.3L), ID
BRAVADA 91
CAMARO 86-89 ECM 8-305 (5.0L)
CAMARO 86-89 8-350 (5.7L)
CAVALIER 86 (2.0L), MT
CIMARRON 86 (2.0L), MT
CORVETTE 86-89
FIREBIRD 86-89 8-305 (5.0L), EFI
FIREBIRD 86-89 8-350 (5.7L)
FIRENZA 86 (2.0L), MT
S10/S15/SONOMA 87-91 (2.5L)
S10/S15/SONOMA 91 (4.3L)
SAFARI (GMC) 87-90 ECM (2.5L)
SKYHAWK 86 (2.0L), MT
SUNBIRD 86 (2.0L), MT
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I just talked to a friend of mine who I helped pull a TPI off an 87 a few years back and he thinks he can still get ahold of the ECM so I'm gonna see where That goes for now. If I can't get that one ill be looking for one on here. I'm wanting to get the engine back in and running before I buy anything just to make sure it's gonna be ok.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
ZIF sockets are very temporary use only, you will never find any industrial application that uses them for "permanent" mounting of Eproms. Sockets like above provide 90-100% pin contact and the good gold ones don't corrode.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
So is soldering these sockets in something I can do without worry of screwing anything up? Or should I take it to somebody that has soldered on circuit boards before?
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I used to have 3or 4 ECM's from TBI trucks. Will these work too? I have no idea what # they are, but I think I still have them stored away.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Anyone here ever swap knock filters from one memcal to another?
Last edited by Dominic Sorresso; 10-31-2012 at 08:47 PM.
#32
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Looking for way to extend the availability of memcals for the LT-5. The knock filter is what makes it "unique"
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I've looked into the EBL and it looks like a great tool for somebody w a lot of mods. Mine just mainly is going to need some "tweaking". This is still the 305, just w hyper pistons, p&p heads, lower intake, tubes, and plenum w a LT1 cam, and RR's. I mainly want It performing the best it can (for a 305) with the stock ECM.
If you are starting from scratch, you own one car, and you want an easy tuning solution I'd recommend going with either the EBL or another NVSRAM based project. EBL is great because it does have some auto VE learning functionality typically only found in the high-end aftermarket, and has some basic goodies that are very friendly to new guys. The XDF is very well commented and has many many configurable options for the expert tuner as well. Tuning with ONE cable is the way to go.
I owned a couple Ostrich's for years, and for what they do they are very inexpensive way to provide real time tuning. Their is a number of reasons why I abandoned this tuning method, first and foremost having to use two cables and sync two applications was just plain silly. The lack of auto-ve made cam changes a pain in the butt, and over all the stock code is 30+ years old and very limited (for ME). An EBL will solve a number of those problems, and for not much more cost than the hardware needed to do real time delco tuning.
There is a lot of different stuff out there. I used to be a big supporter of the stock Delco stuff (patched) until I really started playing with the alternatives. You will get different opinions from different people.
-- Joe
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Does TP RT create a corrected .bin for BLM or PE from the datalog? I have never used it so I do not know.
Does it allow a flash of that corrected .bin into EEProm? With prom seated in the ECU socket?
I think Anes was referring to this function of EBL or other similar tuning systems.
Does it allow a flash of that corrected .bin into EEProm? With prom seated in the ECU socket?
I think Anes was referring to this function of EBL or other similar tuning systems.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
If you were tuning delco stuff I'd be using Tunercat and datamaster however. Tunerpro is ok for what it is.
-- Joe
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Does TP RT create a corrected .bin for BLM or PE from the datalog? I have never used it so I do not know.
Does it allow a flash of that corrected .bin into EEProm? With prom seated in the ECU socket?
I think Anes was referring to this function of EBL or other similar tuning systems.
Does it allow a flash of that corrected .bin into EEProm? With prom seated in the ECU socket?
I think Anes was referring to this function of EBL or other similar tuning systems.
Tunerpro kind of reminds me of EFI live the way the layout is.
More modern systems utilize an AFR table (or many) and wideband input for closed loop, rather than relying on the BLM method + PE adder. (You can still do a PE adder but on a boosted application you want a rich AFR under boost regardless of throttle position)
This stuff will build an open loop VE table based on your wideband. The nice thing is, the newer stuff is a lot more intuitive and user friendly:
EBL is going to get you the closest to this type of functionality without completely ditching the delco stuff.
-- Joe
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I really don't see the fascination with "auto tune."
Every time I hear or read of someone using auto tune with any system, they need to tweak it and adjust it, pretty thoroughly in most cases, depending on how picky the tuner/owner is. Why not tune it manually from the start, and have a better understanding of how and engine's performance is affected?
Again, what "syncing" is there? You set up the port(s) in the program (Tuner Pro RT) and hit "connect." It's not difficult at all, and from any and every other system I've worked with, or seen used the steps are the same or very similar, so it's really a moot point.
Tuner Pro is great, because it's user customizable, and can be used with just about any EFI out there, as long as someone can make the supporting files to work with the specific target hardware. Not many other programs (none that I know of actually) allow for such diverse interfacing.
Every time I hear or read of someone using auto tune with any system, they need to tweak it and adjust it, pretty thoroughly in most cases, depending on how picky the tuner/owner is. Why not tune it manually from the start, and have a better understanding of how and engine's performance is affected?
Again, what "syncing" is there? You set up the port(s) in the program (Tuner Pro RT) and hit "connect." It's not difficult at all, and from any and every other system I've worked with, or seen used the steps are the same or very similar, so it's really a moot point.
Tuner Pro is great, because it's user customizable, and can be used with just about any EFI out there, as long as someone can make the supporting files to work with the specific target hardware. Not many other programs (none that I know of actually) allow for such diverse interfacing.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I really don't see the fascination with "auto tune."
Every time I hear or read of someone using auto tune with any system, they need to tweak it and adjust it, pretty thoroughly in most cases, depending on how picky the tuner/owner is. Why not tune it manually from the start, and have a better understanding of how and engine's performance is affected?
Every time I hear or read of someone using auto tune with any system, they need to tweak it and adjust it, pretty thoroughly in most cases, depending on how picky the tuner/owner is. Why not tune it manually from the start, and have a better understanding of how and engine's performance is affected?
Fast forward, it's 2012. Wideband o2, AFR based fuel map, forget about this 'keeping the converter happy' nonsense.
Tuner Pro is great, because it's user customizable, and can be used with just about any EFI out there, as long as someone can make the supporting files to work with the specific target hardware. Not many other programs (none that I know of actually) allow for such diverse interfacing.
If he wants to get an emulator, an aldl cable, that's perfectly fine. I did it that way for over ten years. But my recommendation is, if he wants to keep the delco platform to get an EBL.
-- Joe
#43
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Because tuning a VE table by hand takes forever. What is there to understand? You add and subtract fuel. Actually, the whole basis around the delco fueling logic is to maintain a stoich AFR for emissions purposes. It's not a performance oriented system. On some of my outrageous combos I used to have to run so much in open loop because no matter how I tinkered with the o2 thresholds the 30 year old logic wouldn't cut it.
Fast forward, it's 2012. Wideband o2, AFR based fuel map, forget about this 'keeping the converter happy' nonsense.
Fast forward, it's 2012. Wideband o2, AFR based fuel map, forget about this 'keeping the converter happy' nonsense.
I still do not see why there is all the hype "auto tuning" when in most cases it requires extensive manual editing to be correct anyway.
Speaking about "keeping the converter happy" part, many of us need to retain OEM electronics in order to pass emissions tests, regardless of what the tail pipe sniffer says.
Well you have to connect to the ostrich or other emulator, make sure your bin is sync. You also have to connect to ALDL, and go through the steps to start recording. It's two interfaces, two cables.
Agreed, it's a great free interface to the stock stuff. Like I said I've tried it a number of times. When I used to tune delco stuff from roughly 2000 to just recently I'd user Tunercat because I like the interface better. I am licensed to create my own TDF's for tunercat so the same functionality is there. For logging I always used datamaster because it was vastly superior to any other logging product out there that I tried.
If he wants to get an emulator, an aldl cable, that's perfectly fine. I did it that way for over ten years. But my recommendation is, if he wants to keep the delco platform to get an EBL.
-- Joe
If he wants to get an emulator, an aldl cable, that's perfectly fine. I did it that way for over ten years. But my recommendation is, if he wants to keep the delco platform to get an EBL.
-- Joe
I've also tried other logging programs and have looked at Tuner Cat, but just simply can not justify the price of Tuner Cat, or using a different logging program than Tuner Pro, other programs seemed lacking in their interface, while Tuner Pro, and especially Scanner Pro, that is now a part of the V5 of Tuner Pro has many options, and is yet simple to use.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
Really? "Forever"? I have tuned many vehicles by hand in just a few hours, I usually choose to tune over several sessions spaced out by a few weeks, to get an average of how the vehicle will react to different conditions. I would do this with ANY system, not just a Delco system.
I still do not see why there is all the hype "auto tuning" when in most cases it requires extensive manual editing to be correct anyway.
I still do not see why there is all the hype "auto tuning" when in most cases it requires extensive manual editing to be correct anyway.
Also, manuals require extensive VE work. Autos seem to limp by happily.
Explain how this is different than any other system, other than some systems only require a single cable, if plugging in one more cable is really so bothersome, then I would suggest maybe looking for a different hobby.
I have never been bothered by plugging in two cables to tune. On the other hand, there is also the Auto Prom, which does reduce the number of cables plugged in down to one, you know, if plugging two cables is just too much work.
I have never been bothered by plugging in two cables to tune. On the other hand, there is also the Auto Prom, which does reduce the number of cables plugged in down to one, you know, if plugging two cables is just too much work.
After years and years of frustration with 'stock stuff', I looked at EBL, Holley, Megasquirt, and a few others. I think for most people EBL is a good solution because it's cheap, stock like, and has some good features. I went with Megasquirt for a number of reasons - mainly the tuning software is vastly superior to anything delco like, the functionality is just straight up amazing, and if I need to make logical changes it's written in very well commented easy to read C language. Now that is NOT for everyone.
I've also tried other logging programs and have looked at Tuner Cat, but just simply can not justify the price of Tuner Cat, or using a different logging program than Tuner Pro, other programs seemed lacking in their interface, while Tuner Pro, and especially Scanner Pro, that is now a part of the V5 of Tuner Pro has many options, and is yet simple to use.
I'm using tunerstudio now and I think the reg fee for that was like $65, which is fairly cheap for what it does.
-- Joe
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I bought TC a few years ago(2003-2004). I recall it was like $50. Not sure on 2012.
I use VE learn however I still need to manually adjust the cells I did not get hits on(higher MAP). I just did a cold weather .bin and needed to add about 1-3% in those non hit cells. So I will say it still needs the touch after the fact.
I use VE learn however I still need to manually adjust the cells I did not get hits on(higher MAP). I just did a cold weather .bin and needed to add about 1-3% in those non hit cells. So I will say it still needs the touch after the fact.
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I bought TC a few years ago(2003-2004). I recall it was like $50. Not sure on 2012.
I use VE learn however I still need to manually adjust the cells I did not get hits on(higher MAP). I just did a cold weather .bin and needed to add about 1-3% in those non hit cells. So I will say it still needs the touch after the fact.
I use VE learn however I still need to manually adjust the cells I did not get hits on(higher MAP). I just did a cold weather .bin and needed to add about 1-3% in those non hit cells. So I will say it still needs the touch after the fact.
EzEFI, the prof products one, and MS seem to have part throttle, cruise, and WOT auto tune nailed.
-- Joe
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Re: Ostrich 2.0
I understand that. Which is why I recommended he go EBL, not aftermarket.
Apples to oranges. Comparing ALDL and emulation to aftermarket is like comparing a rotary phone to an iphone 5.. For most of the 90s and 2000s the aftermarket stuff sucked really hard. The new stuff, is just straight up amazing.
I still have not seen anything "amazing" from the aftermarket that OEMs haven't been doing for years.
No.. Two cables, and two programs is a PITA. Again, I got sick of using that stuff and moved on. Have you ever used anything other than tunerpro ? When I started doing this stuff it was Winbin and winaldl. I remember when Moates came out with some ALDL software. The free stuff was.. Free. I opted to go with Tunercat because the interface was nicer, more refined. Datamaster for logging just worked a lot better.
Yes, I have used other programs and systems, Tuner Pro and the Delco hardware has always worked best for me, including many retrofits into older vehicles.
After years and years of frustration with 'stock stuff', I looked at EBL, Holley, Megasquirt, and a few others. I think for most people EBL is a good solution because it's cheap, stock like, and has some good features. I went with Megasquirt for a number of reasons - mainly the tuning software is vastly superior to anything delco like, the functionality is just straight up amazing, and if I need to make logical changes it's written in very well commented easy to read C language. Now that is NOT for everyone.
I can't remember what tunercat is off hand, maybe $150? I bought it years and years ago, along with the xdf editor.
I'm using tunerstudio now and I think the reg fee for that was like $65, which is fairly cheap for what it does.
-- Joe[/QUOTE]
In the end, this is a forum for discussing Delco systems, namely the systems used in the third gen F-body, and what can be done with it, not what it could be compared to, there is another forum for that, along with many other websites that could be used for that.
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Car: 85 T/A
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Ostrich 2.0
Anesthes, I'm glad you are talking about the EBL and I have looked at it and it seems like it would be a great too for someone that has a lot of major mods and maybe even some that dnt, but I just dnt think its for me. My engine has no major mods that will require a bunch of tuning, in fact it will run ok on the factory chip. The reason I asked about the ostrich is it seems like what I need to just do minor adjustments to what I already have. This will be my first tuning experience so I dnt really know what to expect, but it seems like the EBL and others like it are geared more toward bigger cubes and camshafts which I have neither of. The LT1 cam is the biggest mod I've made to it, the other is the ported headed and intake so I just can't see where I need something like the EBL.
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: Ostrich 2.0
Anesthes, I'm glad you are talking about the EBL and I have looked at it and it seems like it would be a great too for someone that has a lot of major mods and maybe even some that dnt, but I just dnt think its for me. My engine has no major mods that will require a bunch of tuning, in fact it will run ok on the factory chip. The reason I asked about the ostrich is it seems like what I need to just do minor adjustments to what I already have. This will be my first tuning experience so I dnt really know what to expect, but it seems like the EBL and others like it are geared more toward bigger cubes and camshafts which I have neither of. The LT1 cam is the biggest mod I've made to it, the other is the ported headed and intake so I just can't see where I need something like the EBL.
The ostrich is $175, plus you need memcal adapter which is $35, an aldl adapter (aldu1 for example) $50, and cable for "plug and play" to the ALDL port is $30. (you can save money by making your own, splicing it into the ECM harness, etc). The Ostrich probably comes with a USB cable. So we're at $290. Ebl is like $350-400.
If you find an ostrich used for $50 on the forum with a free ALDL cable, than do that!
Now, that might sound odd of me recommending it (EBL) since I'm not using one, but I'm trying to put myself in the newbies shoes. Starting fresh with zero financial investment.
The Ostrich works too, and the benefit is you can change to different masks since it's just a chip emulator. Don't forget an ALDL cable/adapter. (If you need one PM me, I might unload mine).
You should also check out the delcohacking site. Those guys are smart like Rbob, except there is more than just one of him there.
At the end of the day there is a lot of options, and no wrong choices.
P.s, I wouldn't take a soldering iron to a memcal to save $35 on an adapter. The last v8 memcal I sold I got $150. Is that worth ruining?
-- Joe
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