Blown87

iTrader: (1)

So, I was out driving the Camaro last night after putting on new Weld prostar wheels. I had torqued the wheels to 90 foot pounds as Weld suggests. When I was 10 miles into my drive, I snapped three lugs off the right front wheel. Luckily I pulled over before I lost a wheel and got a tow home.
I checked all of the other lugs and found them to be loose. Weld says to retorque the lugs after the first 20 miles and then 100 miles.
I orded a full set of ARP hardened wheel studs and will be installing them all the way around.
My question is: Has anyone (xpndbl3) had similar experiences with these wheels and will my solution of hardened wheels studs with proper torque fix this? Or do I need to do something else?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

were you running on the stock wheel studs? If so that would be your problem, you are lucky the car didn't get out of control and kill you. You need to order the 3.25" long ones with the 12mm thread pitch and install them at ALL four corners. Factory ones are lucky to be 1.5" long. Therefore you were driving around with like .5" of thread engagement at best. Also purchase QUALITY lug nuts, I run the McGard ones, you will spend over $100 on 4 corners worth of lugs and studs. If you need help installing them, ask and I'll explain how to install them.

Blown87

iTrader: (1)

Thanks xpndbl3. Yeah I was running the factory studs. Stupid mistake, and yes I am lucky that I did not wreck.
I am running Weld lug nuts which ran me about $62 and I ordered the ARP studs that are 3.25" in length and those ran me $120.
What are the special instructions for installing them? I know how to replace wheel studs, did you mean there is something different when doing these?

CYARS92

That's pretty odd. I ran Welds on my 70 Nova for 3 years on factory studs without any issues and am currently running Centerlines on my 72 Camaro with the factory studs.
Certainly longer studs are a good option but me thinks there were other issues involved here.
Hmmm, maybe I won't be putting those Telstars on the 92. I've never checked, are the studs on thirdgens shorter than the older cars?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Well the front studs since they are so long will probably need the backing plate bent out of the way in a certain spot to run them. On those weld lug nuts on the studs that failed, I would give them a good looking over to make sure they didn't crack as well.

Well consider yourself very lucky for not having the studs on the nova break off as well. Weld states in their wheel instructions that longer studs must be used due to a lack of thread engagement. All GM studs for the most part are the same length, improper torque sequence(ie impact guns) can weaken them due to overtightening but I will no longer ride in cars with the thicker hubs such as centerlines or welds after having 3 bust off on a bridge and almost go off the guardrail onto a 500 foot drop. My life is certainly worth the $120 in studs for peace of mind, and with how much posts there are online of the factory studs breaking, it seems to be a no brainer for me.

novadk13

agreed with xpndbl3 not many people upgrade their lugs when building everything else, if I ever get power the studs will be upgraded even so the 10 bolt will blow before losing a wheel.

CYARS92

Oh, I'm not arguing with ya, I've just never heard of any situations like that personally (and I'm old!) without it being a wrong application issue.

It just seems odd that they don't even mention or recommend the studs in the Summit or Jegs catalogs either except for the narrow or wide drag applications.

And what are you doing reading instructions for anyway, guys don't do that.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

haha when you have as much money into cars or clients cars, I read EVERYTHING, must be that science background. Our manuals would be 400+ pages at the lab and I'd have to read it all first, then work. Not to mention you can charge more that way. haha. Definitely go with ARP studs, would hate to see your beautiful cars ruined as well. Not to mention when the studs break, 9 times out of 10 the rim gets bent as well.

gearhead0384

iTrader: (7)

I would agree the stock studs really dont cut it. My IROC had drums in the rear with 16" rims stock and with that came wheel spacers. I believe from what I have heard is that they came stock to kick the rear wheels out a little bit due to the drum rear setting the rims in board a little bit as compared to the disk breaks. Anyhow, I was surprised that they even held on at all they are just not long enough. I made sure I upgraded to 2 1/2 ARPs on all four corners when I did my LS1 brakes and PBRs. Cheap insurance is what it really comes down to.

Kevin

Blown87

iTrader: (1)

Well, the car is back on the road. I replaced all 20 wheel studs. The piece of mind is worth the expense. For anyone that reads this, please learn from my mistake and take the time to upgrade wheel studs. This is something that before this I had never even thought about.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

sounds good man, i hope you didn't use an impact at all on those studs, as the instructions state no more impacts, and torqued them to 90ft/lbs with a quality torque wrench. I would recheck them several times over the next 50-100 miles just for piece of mind. I check mine before I take the car out, only takes 2 minutes tops and gives me peace of mind.

nape

iTrader: (1)

Who's instructions state no more impacts? ARP studs are strong enough to take it. Hell, I installed my ARP studs with an impact, a stack of washers, and a lug nut.

I place a lot more stress on the wheel studs then most of you guys ever will. LS1 brakes, 1/2" SPACERS, and factory lug nuts worked with 245/45/16 R-compound tires on the 12-14* progressive banking at Iowa Speedway last year. It was a 4th gear run through turns 1-2 and you'll never understand why an oval is so cool until you run down in the corner and the banking plants the car.

I'm not saying what I did is right, but it works and I haven't heard of any failures of ARP studs in the road race community. GMPP studs yes, but ARPs are pretty much bullet proof unless you leave the lug nuts loose.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

ARP instructions state not to be used with impacts. OVER tightening them will weaken the stud, which is why they prefer using a ratchet then a torque wrench. Also TJ, when both tires are in the air and ALL the weight is on 10 studs in the rear I imagine is WAY more stress on the studs than your car going around a turn...what is your side "g force" 1.06 at best? I see 3G's last time I ran the numbers in a straight line.

If you use an impact cool for you, for the price of those studs I'm going to follow what the manufacturer states.

nape

iTrader: (1)

Up to about 1.4 Lateral Gs on a road course, no one was running the data acq for the roval.

Steve, I said most of these guys. 3Gs sounds a little high too, you might want to re-run your numbers.

According to the info I found, you'd have to be doing a sub 1.0 60' time to pull that amount of G-forces. 3Gs is a space shuttle launch and 5-6gs depending on what you read is a Top Fuel launch.

Here's a page that states a 2.45g launch with a 1.185 60' time: http://www.smartcarby.com/blackjack/page1.htm

Anyway, I'll clarify my original post. If you're a gorilla and run your lug nuts on with the impact then sit there and hammer them on, then yes, you might have a problem. If you're a reasonable human being who runs the nuts on tight but not hamfisted, then use a torque wrench for your final torque, you will be fine with ARP studs. That disclaimer is a legal CYA move for ARP.

Also, when I installed my ARP studs, it was done with anti-seize on the threads and knurl, and I stopped ASAP once the studs bottomed out. I know an impact is ok because the first time I installed them in some stock rotors, I drew them in with a 1/2" ratchet while standing on the friction surface and they drew in easily until they bottomed.

NASCAR uses ARP studs and impacts are the only thing those studs ever see. Granted, they're replaced after every race, but what lazy hamfist would remove their wheels that often if they're too lazy to even go get the torque wrench?

If your car ever breaks the 2G barrier, I'll buy the beer that night

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Hmm, my calculations took into account a vehicle weighing 1000 pounds more than theirs, maybe I messed up the math somewhere along the way. I do know that a 1.3X 60' time is 0-60 in 1.3 seconds, so if I was popping off 60' times just a little slower....hmmm.


and yes monkeys with impacts are bad. But they do work for bananas