BuckeyeROC

A friend and I were talking the other day and wondering why 3rd gens weigh as much as they do. Most weigh around 3600-3800 lbs. stock, correct? Why is this? Doesn't it seem a little high for this size/type of car? I know this isn't the best thing to compare it to, but I have a 91 Geo Prism for a beater and it isn't much smaller than the IROC (it's taller, almost as wide, but not as long), but weighs considerably less. I know the big V8 and part of the beefier drivetrain are somewhat to blame, but should our cars be this heavy? What parts are so heavy besides the drivetrain?

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89 IROC-SuperRammed 355 w/ AFR 190's and LPE 219/219 cam-http://www.geocities.com/buckeyeroc

SoCo80p

iTrader: (5)

no way there that heavy, there about 3,200-3,400 depending on model, we were at the track and my freind weighted his 92' RS and it weighted 3,150

silver89Rs

my 89 rs says on the dor sticker that it weighs in at 4250lbs never had it weighed though

Ions91Z28

3350 with me in it here.

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91 Z28
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Chris87TA350

Yeah, my TA's rated at around 3.5K too. I was wondering this too because 5.0 stangs are much lighter, which is why a Ford 5.0 is faster than our 5.0s. I heard somewhere that the TA GFX add like 150lbs to the car (seems outrageous for plastic), but I don't think that's the big culprit anyway... this is why RX7s have a lead on us from the getgo.

AlkyIROC

The door sticker is maximum weight with 4 passengers and luggage.

BuckeyeROC

Your cars weighed 3150 and 3350? Are they stock or lightened at all? I thought the Fox body stangs weighed around that much and the C4 Vettes, both of which are supposed to be 200-300 lbs lighter than us???

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89 IROC-SuperRammed 355 w/ AFR 190's and LPE 219/219 cam-http://www.geocities.com/buckeyeroc

BuckeyeROC

Just used the weight data from this site under tech data and mine (stock) came out to be 3464 lbs., that's curb weight plus options. With me in it, that's 3739 lbs. If someone who weighed 185 was in it, it'd still be 3649 at the track.

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89 IROC-SuperRammed 355 w/ AFR 190's and LPE 219/219 cam-http://www.geocities.com/buckeyeroc

Metalifann

I weighed mine at the track and it weighed in at 3750.

mcconahay37

iTrader: (3)

I guess why they're heavier than you think they should be is mainly because they are mostly steel and not fiberglass. The rear hatch ain't light either. Don't know how glass compares to metal for weight, but I know glass is heavy.

Blackbari

My 1978 Cutlass (G-Body) weighs less than my 1988 IROC. My IROC weighs 3500 lbs. The Cutlass is 3400. Go figure. My Cutlass has a lot more metal than the IROC, has a real frame, no aluminum engine parts, and is longer.

I do know the aluminum 16" IROC wheels and tires are much heavier than the steel wheels on my Cutlass. So the wheels could be the ones adding weight.

deadbird

The gfx weigh, at best, 15lbs ± a lb. or 2 and maybe about another 2-4 for the metal brackets welded to the rocker.

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[This message has been edited by deadbird (edited December 12, 2001).]

smurfmobile

options add up weight.

my all power TA was weighted at 3440 with me in it , and full tank of gas. obviously a V8 and auto tranny. even t-tops

if you subtract my weight & gas & stereo, I bet it's down to at least 3200, that's before I got a fiberglass hood, racing seats and much lighter 17" SS wheels (the stock cast wheels are ****ing heavy , lol)

hmm , maybe I should see if I can get my car under 3000 pounds, it probably already is there without me in the car. (and I'm not a fatass by any means lol).

oh yeah , this is with a 355 , TH350 , everything else including full interior (+ light racing seats , but rest of it is there , and a heavy *** subwoofer box in the trunk too). so our cars are not THAT heavy , I honestly don't know why any 3rdgen weighs 4200 pounds , that's ridiculous.

smurfmobile

and if you want to lose weight.

start with yourself

then get a fiberglass hood , fiberglass hatch and get rid of that heavy *** wraparound spoiler (that's for the TA owners).

if that doesn't save 300 pounds off the car then I don't know what will.

and there's a lot more you can do without sacrificing comfort or driveability, there are comfortable racing seats out there that will help shave off another 30 pounds , you can get rid of rear seats and make a nice box (upholstered or carpeted) to cover up that hole , aluminium driveshaft , much lighter wheels, and take out all the change from under your seast

91Firecrow305TBI

Great suggestions from Smurf,

Also look at removing the A/C stuff if it has not been working, and you do not plan on converting to the new stuff, Get rid of you smog pump & AIR tubes if you can get away with it. Get rid of the heavy cast iron manifolds in favor of lighter headers, remove the cast iron heads in favor of aluminum heads, get rid of the cast iron water pump in favor of aluminum, replace your heavy steel flywheel/flexplate with a light weight version, replace stamped steel rockers with light-weight aluminum.
Drain/Remove your washer fluid reservoir, remove your floor mats
The stuff I mentioned should save you more than 200 lbs where it counts, rotating and up front

BuckeyeROC

LOL, while I could stand to lose 20 lbs., I'm 6'3" and have been lifting weights for 12 years and played Big Ten football, so I'm not getting down to under 200lbs. anytime soon anyway

I like the weight reducing suggestions and have done some already, but it still doesn't seem like our cars should weigh so much stock. Maybe it's just me.

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89 IROC-SuperRammed 355 w/ AFR 190's and LPE 219/219 cam-http://www.geocities.com/buckeyeroc

IROCKZ4me

Lots of little things add up to make the weight.

GM tends to use more fasteners than some others, like say 5 headbolts per cylider instead of 4, etc. An iron headed smallblock chevy weighs a lot more than a 5.0 Ford. The Ford 5.0 has a shorter deck hieght than a 351 windsor, a 5.0 Chevy, or a 5.7 Chevy. Thats a lot less cast iron in the block. They have shorter/lighter conecting rods, shorter throw/lighter crank and so on, and so on. Lots of 4 and 6 cylinder cars have more aluminum or other lightweight materials for engine accessories, like water pumps, and smaller accessories like AC compressors and such. With less power available it is more important for them to save weight where they can. It all adds up. The F-body has more Chassis bracing like the "wonder bar", larger swaybars, more metal in the floorpan, etc. That makes for a stronger, but heavier chassis. F body brakes are heavier. As someone mentioned that F body hatch is VERY heavy. It has a lot more glass and with it more weight. That long raked windshield gives the F body a mean look but it's a lot more heavy glass than a "boxy" car has. Those GFX add some more weight too. The torque arm & panhard rod and all the associated bracketry of an F body weighs more than the triangulated four link of the stang. IROC-Z wheels are fairly heavy and so are those 245/50 16s. Glass T tops add even more weight. Things like hood louvers add a few more pounds. heavyer gauge steel body panels than most any import car has adds more weight. All this other weight requires stronger, larger & heavier crash protection, like the frame beams going to the bumpers, the bumpers themselves, and the impact absorbers on them. Also, the door impact beams are heavy.
larger and/or more wheel studs and nuts add a pound or two.

I could just keep going and going but you get the idea.


[This message has been edited by IROCKZ4me (edited December 12, 2001).]

deadbird

A 4-link rear still needs a panhard bar.

The added upper control arms with bushing would closely equate out to the weight of the torque arm.

The f-body is heavy because there is just alot of car/steel there. It's not rocket science.

My old 86 Daytona, even though slightly smaller, 4cyl, alum head/intake & fwd weighed nerely the same as an F-body. That's a good reason why they were safe, there was just alot of car which meant weight.

Granted all the knick-knack crap adds up but upgrading to something "lighter" isn't going to save anything much worth talking.

Does anyone really think a solid chunk of machined aluminum for a rocker over a thin piece of stamed steel is that big of weight savings to make a difference ?? Especially since the roller bearings are still made from steel.

While an Aluminum flywheel sounds neat & may save a bit of weight,, get in some stop-n-go traffic to heat it up nicely, then see how good it is.

[This message has been edited by deadbird (edited December 12, 2001).]

gravitar

I stumbled across an old post on a newsgroup listing various engine weights. Looks like the 5.0 boys have us beat by over 100 lbs..

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...haos.lrk.ar.us

That would partially explain the difference, but I think body/chassis differences play a greater role. The steel hood is very heavy for some reason, and the back hatch weighs a TON. We've got a cast iron steering gear, while the ford chassis has an aluminum rack&pinion setup. etc..

SoCo80p

iTrader: (5)

it also will vary alot by the model, the iroc and trans am will be the heavyest due to all the ground effects, plastic weights ALOT more then steel, also if its got t-tops that adds a ton of weight, also a/c and power windows are the big three.the fox bodys were alot lighter as they dont have all the plastic body parts like the F body does.

gravitar

Uhh.. maybe I'm not following what you're saying here.. You surely don't MEAN that do you?

SpeedCat86

Some interesting data:
Steel~ 500 lbs/cu.ft.
Aluminum~150 lbs/cu.ft

Steel being a tougher material, you can use less of it (volume wise) to make a part, but not 1/3 the amount of aluminum

P.S: Concrete~140lbs/cu.ft

deadbird

Trust me,,

http://www.angelcities.com/members/g...rebird/f04.jpg

I've weighed them,,, gfx are <font size=2>not heavy</font>

I'm getting real sick of hearing the GFX add 'soo much weight" to a car. Get over it,, they don't. Period. Simple. End of subject. Run around the block a few times for a week if you're dieing to save that whopping 18lbs the gfx add.

*off my rant,,, I apologize to anyone I offend by it. It's just rather annoying to hear the weight crap about gfx.

[This message has been edited by deadbird (edited December 14, 2001).]

IROCKZ4me

originally posted by deadbird:
Wrong!

While a parallel four link does need a locator like a panhard rod, wishbone, or watts link, a triangulated 4 link does not require it. Mustangs do not come stock with a panhard bar or any other locator, besides the lateral angle of the upper control arms.

Not hardly. I have worked and raced extensively both Mustangs and Camaros and have a few spare parts from both laying around the garage. I, like deadbird, also own a set of scales:

both Mustang upper control arms with bushings weigh 5.3 pounds.

Late style F-body torque arm with bushing weighs 12 pounds. The early solid ones weigh more of course, but I don't have one handy to weigh.

A stock F body panhard rod with bushings weighs 5.5 pounds. I don't have a stiffhard bar (that's the one over the panhard bar) laying around that's not on a car, but they are about the same weight as the panhard bar for a total of about 11 lbs.

The Fox body Stang didn't come stock with a panhard rod or a torque arm, but interestingly enough a popular handling improvement many owners do is to install aftermarket ones on their cars to improve handling, traction & brake dive.


As far as the weight of GFX goes, just adding a set won't slow the car a full sec in the quarter but it is still 18 pounds more than a car without them.

An old (and wise) racers saying is that "it's easier to lose one ounce in 16 different places than it is to lose one pound in one place".

The converse is also true. It's easier to add 1 ounce in 16 different places than one pound in one place.

Add 18-20 pounds in 5 different locations/ways on the car and you've gained a 100 pounds in weight.

The weight on these cars come from many, many different things. A little here, a little there, but it all adds up.

german-motorsport

Weight is money!

Fiber hood+hatch!Pa k-member and coilover no caddy style power this and that , alu heads and engine parts recaro spa seats .............and you loose alot!


we use a camaro in street class with 1150KG
and we have plans to ripp off more weight





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