98LowRanger

Having a very low "slammed" vehicle is nothing new to me. As my user name suggest, I had a low 98 Ford Ranger and also a Ford Focus that was slammed on coilovers. Please don't suggest air ride because I honestly don't want to invest $1000+ into this. The car isn't driven daily so I'm not too worried about how low it is and the ride quality.

I now want to lower my 91 Firebird more then what I have seen Sportline lowering springs allow. I have done some research and Ground Control Weight Jacks seem to be the way to go. I was considering on using them along with a set of Belltech 2" drop spindles. Yes, I realize using them together would make the car near undriveable. I would raise the weight jacks up to counter some of the 2" drop the spindles provided. On to my questions:

1) I am wanting to use the spindles to help retain as much of the factory suspension geometry as I can. They are pricey though so for what I am using them for are they worth it? Anyone have personal experience with using any drop spindle along with the Ground Control weight jacks?

2) Those of you using the Ground Control Weight Jacks, any cons to them? I'd love to hear what spring rates your using and your ground to fender heights.

3) Anything you guys recomend using in conjunction with the weight jacks? Any tricks or products to help improve the ride quality at all? Any other tips on install or modifications to bump stops, etc. would be GREATLY appreciated!

morrow

the first thing, i must ask you what is the purpose of the car? what do you plan on doing with it?

98LowRanger

Just using it as a "Sunday driver". Wanting to take it out on nice days, maybe to a car show or two or just a local car get together every now and then. Eventually I would LOVE to add some 17" Torque Thrust wheels (not very original I know, but I love that classic hot rod look) and in my opinion any of these older cars look great with no fender gap. So, not looking to take it to the track or performance......just aesthetics.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Lowering on these cars is not cheap and easy. If you lower the rear of the car you will need Lower control arm relocation brackets (LCARB) and an adjustable panhard bar to re-center the rear end. So add in $200 right there. There is also a limit to how low you can lower the rear of the car before the body mount for the rear lower control arm is lower than the axle's mount even with aftermarket LCARBs. If that mount is lower you WILL experience wheel hop and rear axle twisting anytime power is applied. With the car being lower if you planned on running 3" exhaust you might have to look into founder's or UMI's upper panhard bar relocation piece--Another $100 at least. You will also need shocks made for lowered vehicles. If you use KYB, AC Delco or Monroe they will not last long. You would have to put money into Tokiko or Koni.

At the front of the car you will need to buy a set of aftermarket front strut mounts like founders and spohn make that are an inch taller and allow for more alignment flexibility that you would need when lowering the car. You would also need a set of struts that are made for lowered vehicles, again Tokiko or Koni. Probably new heavy duty tie rod adjustment sleeves and for sure a new Alignment if it even could be aligned properly after being 4" lower. I would also be really concerned with how low that might put the K member off the ground, 3" or less would be unsafe in my book.

While I haven't looked at the prices of drop spindles and ground control weight jacks for a while, I do recall that you wouldn't be spending much less than your $1000 figure for air ride suspension. I am not against weight jacks, but I would not buy a set. The selling point of them is the ability to raise and lower your car 1"...2"...3"?...4"???? Whenever you raise and lower your car you are throwing the alignment off. An inch might not make a difference, but I would think that 3", maybe even 2" would make a difference. Most people get them so they can drive at a street height and then jack it down for a car show or autocross event. I would think also that after a couple times of being raised and lowered that exact height spot it was aligned at would be lost along with the money you paid for an alignment. There are enough members that run the same spring part number with different setups for you to be able to realistically say "X spring should work for me," or "I can buy X spring and cut off one coil and be where I want."

Unless you plan on dropping some cash into the car, stick with a set of cut moogs or eibach or drop zone springs. You'll have your hands and check book busy enough replacing suspension components to compensate for just a 1-2" drop. At least with a 1-2" drop you can buy the founder's/spohn/umi strut mounts and still use a regular strut.

karl's-92'-z28

iTrader: (5)

I have GC weight jacks, 2 inch dropped spindles & Koni Reds. The ride is awsome, no complainys from me, the roads here suck, but evetually know wherr to go to avoid them.

98LowRanger

Wow, thanks for all the info! You make a good point about adjusting the weight jacks. Once the desired height is found I simply wouldn't raise or lower it because like you mentioned it will throw off the alignment. It really gets me thinking that maybe just buying a good low drop spring like Eibach Sportlines would be the way to go. Install them and then take off 1/2 a coil until the desired amount of drop is acquired. Definitely the most cost effective option.

Is the Lower control arm relocation brackets (LCARB) and an adjustable panhard NEEDED in the rear with a 2-3" drop? This car isn't going to see any track time. Just want a safe, reliable, and decent riding driver.



Do you have any other suspension modifications besides the weight jacks, spindles, and shocks? Happen to have any pictures of your car with this setup installed?

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Are LCARBs and adjustable lanyard bar "needed?" Nope, not needed, the car will still be drivable and better handling than minivans, trucks, SUVs and most four door cars. BUT your rearend will not be centered, meaning one tire will be pushed out and one tire pushed in. Without the LCARBs you will get wheel hop which will cause the wheel to spin and simulate an open differential at best. Say goodbye to being able to put power down.

AM91Camaro_RS

He did mention that he wanted the car to be safe. with this being said, yes, relocation brackets and adjustable panhard bar are needed. you forget that even though he's not going for performance, if the lcas are already at an upward angle toward the rear axle, if you have to yank on the steering wheel to avoid something in the road, body roll and the improper angle on the rear lcas will cause roll induced understeer. you really should lower the axle side of the panhard bar the keep it level to avoid the jacking effect it can create in similar situations. Also, there's rumors on the tq arm bolts (at the rear end housing) hitting the floor pan with the car lowered that much. this issue isn't necessarily a big deal to fix. but, the others are important!
Also, aren't there issues with smaller diameter wheels and the tie rod ends with drop spindles? something about the tire rod end hitting the back of the wheel? I can't speak from experience on this one but I think I've seen it. Not trying to discourage you from what you're trying to do, just pointing out some more things that need or might need to be addressed.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Exactly how slammed do you want your car? Here's how mine sits.




Front: Ground Control weight jacks bottomed out with 800lb springs 8" tall
Rear: 9.5" tall 200 lb springs with the weight jacks removed entirely
Koni yellow struts/shocks.
removed bump stops front/rear.
removed fender liners.
flattened upper fender pinch weld above tires for clearance.
adjustable rear panhard bar
Corvette Y2k wheels 17x8.5 +7 and 18x9.5 +14 with 245/45/17 and 275/40/18

With this I was at 24.25" fender height up front and 25" fender height rear and 2.5" ground clearance to my front cross member/oil pan/exhaust.

Since this picture I have added 1" raised Founder strut mounts, 1" extended ball joints, and Founders LCARB's. So the car has the ability to go about a whole inch lower up front, but I will need to raise the struts even more or run drop spindes to prevent my struts from bottoming out.

in this picture I only had ~3/8" of A-arm travel before they bottomed out where the bump stops used to mount. The rear LCA's had 1.25" of travel before the axle tubes bottom out where the bump stops used to mount. However, I daily drove it for months exactly how you see it.

My struts and shocks only had a fraction of an inch more travel before they would bottom out after the A-arms and LCA's did. So if you want your car lower than mine you will need to also get raised front strut mounts and drop spindles to gain travel and clearance up front. then you would need to relocate the rear shock mounts lower for shock travel and C-notch the rear inner fender/wheel well for axle tube clearance. At this point the center section of the rear end will be getting very close to the fuel tank as well. If you plan to be that low I would use stiffer springs than I am, somewhere probably in the range of 1000lb front and 250lb rear.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

3/8" suspension travel and 2.5" ground clearance is not safe. Suspensions on these heavy cars are for more than just creature comforts.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

3/8" of travel is not enough, which is why I say if someone wants there car that low they should definitely get drop spindles. However, 2.5" of ground clearance is plenty. My Camaro is a monster truck compared to my GTi. It's all about how and where you drive.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Looking Good! I have the drops and 850lb 9.5" with swivel cup weight jacks & 200lb coilovers in rear. I would be interested in rear shock mount relocate if you have any pics?

Brian