3.1 firebird

My AC system has been empty for over 2 years now and I dont want to go through another humid, hot STL summer without AC.

Can I simply install the 134 kit on my car. I know you are SUPPOSED to use a new compressor, but I have heard of people using the old one without problems.

or should I have the system drained professionally then install the 134.

or should I have them fill it up with R12 again?

thanks.

dtpmike

my co-worker owns a plymoth something and his ac leaked out so he fixed the leak and filled it with 134 with no problems for over a year. he also drives the car 100 miles a day with the AC on most of the time

chevymad

You dont have to change the compressor if its still good. You should change the accumulator(big aluminum tank thing). It contains a chemical that isnt compatible with r134. Also you should pull the compressor and drain any oil out of it that you can. Then bolt it all back together. You'll need a shop to pull a vacuum on the system for awhile before you recharge it. This is to remove any moisture from the air that got into the system. The oil, r134, and moisture make acid which will eventually eat up the system if you dont vacuum it.

So you need,

1. Retro kit with r134 and new oil.
2. New accumulator.
3. Have vacuum pulled on system.
4. Recharge

I've done quite a few cars this way and have yet to have a come back. You only need to replace O-rings on any fittings you take apart. You dont have to replace all of the o-rings in the whole system. You dont have to change compressor. You don't have to change hoses. Unless somethings damaged and causing your leak.

Vader

If you convert to a blend, like Hot Shot, you don't have to change anything. You should change to barrier hoses, but it isn't absolutely necessary for proper system operation.

Chevymad is right on with the procedure, regardless of what refrigerant you use. You will still need to evacuate the system if it hasn't been charged for two years. And before you charge with anything, you'll need to replace the oil that was lost with the refrigerant.

3.1 firebird

Good info, thanks guys.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I had the convertion to 134 done, but I'm discontent with how it cools. On a hot day, say 85 to 100 degress, it cools only marginally--that is, I'm barely comfortable. Any suggestions?

JamesC

89formula#1

why wouldn't u just get the r-12 again?? does the r134 cool better or sumthing? i need to get my air recharged in my 89 formula and i was just gonna take it sumwhere and have them charge it up with r12. also about how much does it cost to have my system recharged with r12?? thanks guys

highhat

$75a lb here takes about 2 lb's

R12 is better but expensive

chevymad

I havent had any problems with cooling. Usually end up with low 30 degree air outa the vent on my retros. However 85 and up isnt normal here. You could have too much oil in the system or maybe some air. Either of these will make the system less efficient.

If thats OK then the biggest difference between systems designed for r134 and those designed for r12 is the condensor(part in front of the radiator). Some companies make more efficient condensers to work with R134. You might check it out, see if its worth it to you to change.

One other thing that might help. I've heard that variable rate orifice tubes really help cooling on retrofits. I have no personal experience with this, but these are inexpensive. Biggest cost will be to open the system up and change it.

Vader

Before you spend more money on a larger condenser and evaporator, check the price of recharging with an R-12 replacement blend. The R-414B that I'm using is only about $8/lb. in 30# bottles.

Some of the advantages are:

Fully compatible with all standard refrigerant lubricants - No oil changes required at any temperature application;

8% more efficient than R-12;

15-20% more efficient than R-134;

No expensive parts retrofits;

Near duplication of R-12 operating characteristics;

EPA accepted for use in both stationary and mobile ACR equipment;

Energy and equipment saving characteristics.

A change to barrier type hoses is recommended, but since your system is alreay empty, that would be fairly easy. It's pretty hard to find good quality hoses that don't have the secondary barrier any more, anyway.

If you study the T/P curves for R-134A, it really isn't that well suited for automotive AC systems without massive heat exchangers - leaving it really unsuitable for retrofitters. Your compressor will be working at dangerously high pressures when it gets above 90°F outside and you expect cooling. It just wasn't designed for that kind of abuse if it came with R-12.

urbman

With respect to using R-414B ...
Any particular "gotchas" you have noticed...

I need to replace my compressor and was considering
the 134 changeover but it sounds like R-414B is the
way to go...

Is "Hot Shot" a brand name ?

89formula#1

where can i get it and can i do it myself

Vader

R-414B is commonly sold under the name "Hot Shot" from Icor International. Forane also has a similar blend. Since the refrigerant is a tertiary blend of HCFC R-22 (not CFC), isobutane, and other components, you need to have HVAC/EPA certification to purchase and use the refrigerant.

Fortunately for me, I've got universal certification - CFC, HCFC, Ammonia, cryo compounds, and everything. Currently, anyone can get HFCs in most places, but that's likely to change too. The universal cert is for larger residential, commercial, and industrial systems, not mobile systems, but I can get anything as long as it isn't in one pound units. I still have to follow the rules and log/track all recovery, recycling, and useage like anyone else. If you visit your local community college for a few weeknights you can probably get mobile certification or a commercial cert level. Then you too can get anything you need, but you still have to follow the rules.

If you don't want to endure that or invest in a little recovery equipment, you can find a refrigeration shop that will evacuate and charge the system for you. It's still far cheaper than using R-12, and is more efficient. Oddly, even though R-414B has been on the market for ten years, surprisingly many shops don't know much about it. Too bad for their business.

txturbo

I've done the conversion on 3 of my vehicles without any problems. On the wife's 66 Impala I replaced all the hoses,oil,and accumulator.Worked great for two years.Then the POA valve seized up.But it was 36 years old.On the 87 Mitsubishi I changed the oil,and accumulator and it works fine.On the 91 Chevy truck I converted after the original compressor seized.Replaced the oriface tube,compressor,oil,and accumulator.Works great.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I am looking into getting my A/C done soon too. will an accumulator from a new fbodybolt right in ours cars? Where can I purchase new parts like O rings and stuff? My car has 160K miles on it so things have seen better days

stock sux

why do you need to buy a new accumulator. what is the difference between the old one and a new one. i understand about new hoses. is there any way of testing your compressor to see if it is any good. my ac system is empty and i dont know how to check it before i retrofit it and fill it since it was empty when i bought it.

chevymad

New accumulator is needed for 2 reasons..
1: The thing holds alot of the old oil, which you want to remove. It's next to impossible to get the oil out of the accumulator.
2: Theres a dessicant(chemical moisture remover) that isn't compatible with r134. New replacement accumulators have a dessicant that is compatible with either refrigerant.

You dont need new hoses unless theres something wrong with your old ones. Years of use with R12 and its oil have created a coating inside your old hoses. This coating acts as a barrier to R134. If you used new R12 hoses with r134 they would leak. But old hoses will work.

Couple of things you can do that might tell you the condition of your compressor. First thing pull the orifice tube out. It has a screen that traps any debris in the system. If you see any debris or metal flakes this stuff come from your compressor....not good! If the orifice is clean try turning the compressor by hand(not just the pulley part but the hub in front of the pulley) if you can turn it and the orifice is clean your compressor is probably fine. It could have a leak though but without proper equipment you wont be able to tell.

Vader

So, how's that retrofit working out for you?