Twix

Okay guys, Got a 91 Camaro RS 3.1L V6 LHO. Since friday it has been acting like a complete and total ***!! Have spent a GOOD 10+ hrs working on it this weekend at least. Heres what it is doing:

Friday spit out code 35, IAC Value, just put a new one on it like a month ago. So go to AutoZone swap it for a new one, no more code 35. Still acts like ***. Spits out code 22, TPS tried 4 different ones, no go.

Its heasatating at lights, stops signs, etc, It goes but kinda heasitates to take off, kinda lacking power. Takes a while to start it. It starts after 5-10 mins. Engine is cranking wanting to start but being difficult about it. Getting major crappy gas mileage, used 3/4 tank in 2 days when usually my gauge barely moves. Today used close to half a tank of gas going 25 miles.

Fuel pump is good, injectors are good. Checked fuel pressure its 45. Let it sit for about 30 mins to test injectors only dropped 2 so injectors are good. Saturday replaced the EGR value b/c it blew a gasket and was blowing crap all over the place so thats brand new. Changed spark plugs & wires. It is getting fuel, cap & rotors are good put a new air filter on it. Took some other parts off and cleaned them, put them back on. Swapped coil back to stock as the after-market one the heat had burnt the "decal" off of it. Also with the EGR spitting crud everywhere thought maybe it spit crud all over the coil so put stock one back on.

Still is not wanting to start. Still lacking power at take offs from a complete stop. Major, major crappy gas mileage. My car Normally gets 28 freeway and 20-25 in city. When it does start it sounds like crap and idles really high.

I am stumped!!! ANY & ALL thoughts, ideas, anything is welcome. I'm beginning to think timing could be my problem. but not sure if timing is going to throw my gas off that damn bad. HELP!!! I'm totally lost & confused!!

Charyou Tree

Check your plugs?
Wires?
Timing?

Twix

Plugs good, wires good.

Timing, haven't yet, need a timing light. I'm seriously starting to think that could be my problem, but I seriously hope it isn't. But on other hand "viola problem solved". But my question is would timing cause ALL that?????

Twix

Okay guys, help! I'm thinking timing and then a suggestion came in that it could be the Coolant Temp. Sensor. Autozone has 2 of 'em, 20 bux for both. The one that tells the engine the temp. and the other that tells the gauge. Could both be bad or just one or the other? If one or the other which one goes out more commonly.

Also IF indeed it is timing what would cause it to just go so out of whack basically over night???

Vader

Twix,

Save the $20 on sensors and invest it in a cheap digital meter if you don't already have one. You're going to need it.

Once you get the DMM, test the resistance of the CTS at a known (or presumed) coolant temperature. Compare the readings to the chart:



If your results are within 100 ohms of the chart at a known coolant temperature, the sensors are acceptable.

Next, the TPS on your '91 should be non-adjustable. Even at that, there is a specification for the TPS. The TPS voltage must be below 1.0VDC when in the closed-throttle position, or the ECM may not be able to learn the TPS base position on startup. If the voltage is high, it's likely that someone has removed the throttle stop screw adjusting plug and was playing around with the minimum air position.

Also, you have MPFI, probably with Multec injectors, so they are suspect as well. Get your digital ohmmeter, remove the top half of the intake plenum (a bunch of 8mm bolts), and disconnect/test the injectors for resistance one at a time. Minimum resistance COLD should be 12.0 ohms. If any are lower, you could have an injector solenoid issue typical of the Multecs.

You also have some stored DTCs, and probably some "bad" BLM data, so disconnecting the battery and clearing everything might be helpful in your specific case.

Be aware of the fact that on the 191 engines, there is a special procedure for "teaching" the IAC position to the ECM. You cannot simply bolt a new one in place and expect everything to be solved. (Aren't you lucky?) The correct method is to use a scan tool and monitor IAC pulse counts at hot idle. The acceptable range of counts is 10-20.

As for the timing, if the distributor is securely clamped in position, the base timing should not have moved. I mentioned BASE timing, since the ESC timing can be substantially different, and a faulty ESC can throw timing way off. The only other way the base timing can move is if the timing chain has slipped. That isn't impossible, since the V-6 engines use a longer chain than the V-8s, so slack can be an issue. Check the base timing with a light. Follow the instructions on the VECI lable under the hood to bypass the ESC system, and adjust the timing to the specification listed on the label.

Replacing the leaking EGR was a good idea, but don't stop there. Inspect all the other possible vacuum leaks, including all hoses, gaskets, the PCV, and the power brake booster. Any vacuum leak on your smaller engine is going to kill idle quality and accelleration.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Check for a plugged exhaust (maybe cat-con). I say this because of the EGR gasket blowing out and the lack of power & mileage.

RBob.

dunerida82

You might wanna think about a new car in general, or simply doing an engine swap, if you want to keep the car. The car is probably worth 2K only. Maybe a swap a big daddy in there, and love it?

Twix

Thanks for all the info!!

Where do you live vader?? LOL Anywhere close to Arkansas???

Went to the store today to get my daughter some medicine and the car came home on a tow truck. Thankfully I have that AAA membership 4 free tows a year is a portion of my 75 bux. My daughter has a cold and gotta knock it so she can get some dental surgery done. She broke a tooth off at her gum and they have to put her out completely to get it out.

My moms vans tranny is going out my car is screwed up so now were down to my dads van.

As for doing an engine swap I sure as hell dont have that kinda money. Also I didn't really want all that power. I'm used to a 4 banger so the V6 is plently for me. Its seriously ticking me off though. My little one sure did enjoy that ride in the tow truck though, got mad when the drivier left. LOL!! Gonna try a few things this week. and *hopefully* will fix it.

8Mike9

This is what I'd look for first.

Have a vacuum gauge or low pressure (0-15psi) guage?

Any "hiss" from the exhaust?

1982chevycamaroz28

how about a very bad o2 sencor? has that been replaced ever?

Twix

Well checked the timing tonight, its running on 12 so just a little high, but not bad enough to throw my entire car so badly out of whack. Had my fiance take the distributor home tonight to re-build it, that thing needed it too. So I'm crossing my fingers that will solve the problem. Once again, THANKS sooo much for all the help!!!!!!!!!!

formula90

the quote above is some good info. I am suffering from a bad leak of some kind. I am getting a bad swishing or sucking sound from under the hood.. kinda like a bad exhaust leak. I can hear a ticking sound.. which is my exhaust mani.. but that has been doing that for awhile.. but the sound that has just began is that big leak sound that has stole all my power. I have good compresion, my rpms are good.. shifts are good.. but when I am in park, I rev up the engine.. it is like sheesh.. sheesh..(sound effects) and I cannot hear my flowmaster exhaust note at all, it is like someone rerouted my exhaust tip to under my hood!! It flooded a few weeks ago and the water covered my exhaust.. hell, this has happened a coupla times.. Now listen to this, I thought, well, my cat is plugged, but I can still drive and excellerate to high speeds just takes longer to get there.. also, when my car is idling in park and I stick my hand over the exhaust tips, I can feel the exhaust coming out. Also, the cat is hot to the touch at the front, and the back.. I heard that a symptom of a plugged cat is hot at the front and cooler at the rear. Could it still be plugged? Also, tht swishing sound, could it very well be that the egr gasket has blew outpartially becasue of the restricted exhaust? is that causing the loss of power? when I acceleare hard, it sounds like a hollow sucking sound sometimes, kinda like the sound it makes if i were to drive around with the air cleaner and filter off.. I have tried in the past cranking the car with the egr valve off and it wouldnt idle but just die and at the same time, make a horrible sound... so, if the gasket was partially blown, it would be half way there.. oh well.. please everyone, give me some feedback. i am tempted to gut the cat and take off the egr and replace the gasket and fire her up and see if this issue isnt resolved.. i would jut like to hear from yall.. thanks alot in advance!!!

Andy Bush

I'm with RBob on this one, but no joking but it sounds like all the symptoms you get when some one sticks a potatoe up the exhaust pipe - honest.

If you changed the tps, and still got the fault code, maybe it needs to be readjusted.

You may want to get the compression tested with all the symptoms, because there are so many you need to get down to some basic engine condition checks. It is easy to get the compression checked.

Twix

Okay guys, I am seriously about to lose it with this car. "Knocked" out the cataliac converter yesterday, as all signs pointed to a plugged one. My gas mileage is back around where it should be, so no longer is that a problem. My heasatation problem is gone.

BUT the car will NOT start when it is hot. It also "stumbles" or "jumps/jerks" while going at a steady speed. On the car starting: Come home, kill the car, starts right back up. Go inside for about 5-10 mins go back outside to try to start the car. Car will not start.

Haynes Manual: "Crank Signal, If the signal from the starter solenoid is not available, the vehicile can be difficult to start". Says I'm supposed to be getting a 12 volt signal. Is it possible that I'm not getting what I'm supposed to be when the engine is hot??

Also on the TPS "A broken or loose TPS can cause intermittent bursts of fuel from the injector and an unstable idel because the ECM thinks the throttle is moving. However, tried 3 different TPS on the car and it still wasn't running right. Could that explain the "jumping" the car does while going at a steady speed.

IAC value I've went thru 2 of these in the past month 4B-7 IN the haynes manual under # 39 "Most IAC value pintles have the same dual taper. However, the pintles on some units have a 12mm diameter and the pintles on others have a 10mm diameter. A replace IAC value must have the appropriate pintle taper and diameter for proper seating on the value in the throttle body."

At autozone they only showed one IAC value, how would I go about knowning which one I need for my car. Also IF say I have the 10 diameter in it and I truly need the 12, how would this affect the car???

Gonna swap starters on it to see IF that could be my starting problem, but seriously I don't think the starter would cause the stumble at a steady speed. So I'm kinda thinking I have 2 problems.

PLEASE HELP AND OFFER ANY & ALL SUGGESTIONS!!!!


I need my car back on the road and to be realiable again.

Wootah

Bud, I had the SAME problem. About it wanting to start and just cranking but after a WHILE it starts.. Here is your problem.. You bought a POS TPS from AutoZone or whatever ****ty local store you bought it from.. take that damn thing back and get your money back. They gave me 2 BAD TPS's my car was down for a week trying to figure out if my ECM was fried or something stupid, but people here helped me with directions on how to test it, and sure nuff.. ****ty TPS.. Call your local GM dealer, ask for a TPS for your car. The TPS for my car (305 TPI) was 61$ but he gave it to me for 50$. It SHOULD be an AC delco TPS, and im tellin you, we plugged that baby in, set her at .54v, tightened it up, and shes been running code/problem free now for 3 days, im so happy! Thats what I'd advise you to do, take that TPS back and get an AC Delco from the dealer, Im almost sure thats going to help you out. Remember, you get what you paid for

Wootah

Also, you probably know, but you need to have a meter hooked up to the TPS to make sure when you tighten it up its at .54v, or VERY near. You cant just put it on and tighten it.. and be careful with those screws, they broke off when I pulled off the ****ty autozone TPS and i had to retap the holes.. a pain in the *** Good luck with everything let us know how it goes!

Twix

Thanks for the info wootah will look into that. *Hopefully* that will solve the problem. I'm about ready to pull my hair out!!!! With x-mas coming up though that $$ won't be available to me for a couple of weeks.

Vader

Twix,

Go back to my first post in this thread. There are a few key items that are specific to your engine.

First, you may continue to get the IAC error code until the ECM learns the IAC position.

Second, if I am correct, the TPS on your engine is non-adjsutable, so forget about setting the voltage at 0.54VDC.

Third, for the hard starting and poor idle quality, you need to check the injector resistances. The stock Multec injectors are known for solenoid failures.

formula90

gutted the cat.. changed my pickup coil and now I have my car back.. and better than ever...

Twix

Okay, checked the starter, we believe it was the "orginal one" and was pretty rusty so we put a new one in. Along with a new starter line from the battery to the starter b/c the one that was on it was completely corroded on both ends. Do you know how HARD it was to find one long enough??? approx. 75 inches, everyone had 72 inches, found ONE shop in my town that carried it at 78.

Well, I believe the starting problem is fixed. Took it to town to get some food, drive thru window so I didn't have to kill the car *just in case* brought it home. Turned it off, re-started it started right back up. Went inside ate, about 5 mins or so went back outside to test it and it started right back up. Waited another 8 mins, tested it again and it started. Also took it on a "test run" before taking it to get food and it did fine, did basically the same procedure. So I'm 90% sure its fixed.

Now on the way home it did the "stumble" at steady speed about 3 times.

And also while sitting in the drive-thru the car started to over-heat, went a little past the "half-way" mark before I took off and then it went back down. It usually doesn't over-heat like that, i was there MAYBE 5 mins. So I think just all this crap is going out at once on my car and its ticking me off seriously!!!!!

As for the TPS gonna be at least a week or two before I can afford an AC Delco one for it.

Would it be my TPS causing the stumble, and also would it be "safe" to drive for a week with it doing that. Also what is the possiability of the TPS causing the car to over-heat?? Also, noticied a leaky gasket right by the Thermostat, but not 100% that would be the problem. So guys a girl is in need here so give me some answers. LMAO

Wootah

Put it this way, I drove around for a week with a TPs reading 4.92v (5.0v is absolute open throttle) at least thats as high as it would go, that means when im idleing, its telling the ECM to push enough fuel to sustane open throttle. Im sure youll be fine

FJK

If you have a V6 engine with a driveability problem or a hard start problem and you are NOT getting a code, the first thing to check is the electrical resistance of the injector solenoids. Listen to Vader's advice.
FJK

Twix

This is the "orgin" of the cars problems if anyone wants to use this as reference to my fuel pump question

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

Vader is giving you some good advice. try it!

Also if your car is overheating have you changed or checked your thermostat lately. I reccomend a 160 degree if you are not in very cold climates. You car should not over heat while waiting in drive thru. this is a major function of American life, especially since you have a young daughter. Once again check those items that Vader suggested, clear the cars trouble computer and check the thermostat.

Twix

I'm beginning to think the car is just poccessed or something. LOL! Anywho, did the fuel pump yesterday. Got a new battery, tested alternator. Basically have re-build the ignition system. Got 2 things left fuel wise, fuel regulator and injectors.

Now the car is: Stumbling at steady speed, and heastating off & on at take off.

I noticied while at idle the battery gauge goes down and the interior lights go major dim. My dad is thinking a bad ground wire somewhere would cause all of it. I'm thinking either what dad is saying OR the fact that I could have 2 or more different problems. Thinking bad ground wire, injectors, or TPS. or a combo of all of it.

FJK

Dim lights at idle often mean a loose connection at the battery cables. Since you recently changed the battery and installed a new positive cable, I would check both the positive & negative cable connections. Check the battery connections AND the conncections where the cables terminate. If you had the alternator removed to be checked, also recheck those connections. Side terminal post batterys are sometimes tricky to get the terminal bolts installed properly, resulting in marginal contact with the cable terminals.

Vader

Twix,

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but what seems about a month ago I mentioned that you should test the injectors and "teach" the IAC valve position per the factory procedure. You've replaced the TPS with no change, so that should tell you something. You've replaced the starter and battery cable (and hopefully cleaned the other terminals), you've gutted out the cat converter unnecessarily, replaced the fuel pump (probably unnecessarily), gone over the ignition system a couple of times, rebuilt the distributor, replaced the IAC more than once, and I'm guessing there are others that we aren't aware of.

This is why diagnosis is so important, rather than guesses. Bolting on new parts won't repair anything if the original part wasn't the problem. For the cost of the fuel pump, you could have had a decent multimeter and probably a fuel pressure test gauge. You would have saved the cost of the pump, and the hassle, and might be closer to the problem.

We "old farts" have already made those kinds of mistakes, and are trying to warn you against doing the same thing and wasting your time and money. Just give us a chance...

86BirdSE

No one mentioned checking the EGR tube for pinholes or cracks. Do your manifolds glow? Are you leaking spark anywhere? New wires don't always mean good wires. I'd be checking every inch of vacuum hose and EGR return line too. Is the fuel filter new? How about your 02 sensor? If all the simple things are fine, then check your injectors next.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

FYI, heres whats been done to the car, and still has hard start problems. I also have zillions of tools at my disposal, have worked on cars for 11 years. And have my fauther help me to who has worked on cars for 35+ years. We are still puzzled as to what is wrong!!!!

Spark, getting laser blue spark.
1. swapped coils
2. ICM replaced
3. Rebuilt distrib, some parts are still rusted.
4. Cap/rotor good
5. New pick up coil
6. Wires are around 3mo old
7. Swapped plugs
8. Fixed wires to coil.

Fuel, tested many times, get between 40-44 psi every time
9. New pump, v8
10. Filter is around 5mo old
11. Swapped regulators
12. Went to 17lb injectors, still acted up, went back to stocks
13. Took that little "ball" out of the line buy front of intake

Air
14. Installed TPI intake with new filters

Other crap
15. New ECM with prom chip
16. New IAC
17. New Battery
18. New Alt
19. New Belt
20. New Belt tensioner
21. Checked vacume, fine
22. New T-stat
23. Swapped ECT
24. Gutted Cat
25. Swapped Starters
26. repaired wires to starter, had green crap on them.
27. New battery cables, + and -
28. New EGR
29. Disabled SRS while doing all this

The one that still pisses us off is that we have tryed 7 different tps, and ALWAYS get a code except for the one that came on the car.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

.. double post, sorry

86BirdSE

meaning the ignition module? and Swapped... with known good parts? no dice on the EGR tube/Valve/system? the EGR if "open" in any way creates a massive vacuum leak behind the throttle body.

Corry

Not sure what the stock injectors on that thing are but if you put heavier injectors on w/o increasing the motors air capacity of course the car is gonna run like crap, you just completly screwed up the fuel/air ratio, and theres only so much compensation the cars look up tables aka ECM can do, it is not an intelligent system! You should listen to vader, he is very respeced on this board for knowing whats wrong with cars! Chances are if he says to try something, thats your problem. Seriously, dont be like computer programmers (I am one and can speak on this matter) most have what we call NIH. NIH means "Not invented here" in other words, if it isn't my idea, its the wrong idea. Try taking vaders advise and see what happens. You might be surprised! With the description of the problem both of you gave, and the work, I think that he's got a pretty good idea of whats going on, and a pretty good idea of what is wrong. Try his advise, humor us all!

Twix

Personally, I'm about ready to go pay the 30-50 bux take it to a shop and have them run full diagnositc on it. And you are so right Vader in the $$ thats been spent on new parts probably could of had it tested by a shop and problem solved.

Just learned a lesson the hard way.

The alternator was bad w/o doubt. So that could of been half the problem. It was putting out 50 amps rather than the 105 it should of been.

As for the EGR value in Sept. it went out, re-placed it. Then in dec. the car was spitting out the ERG code, again, Took it off looked at it, it had blown a gasket. So needed replacing again, but thankfully that one was still under warranty.

Stock injectors are 15lbs, hubby installed 17lbs in the car, put the stock ones back in yesterday.

I found the tech articile on adjusting both the IAC and TPS and are going to try the IAC next time we get the chance to work on the car. (hince warm enough weather, was too damn cold today to work on it, got snow today which seems to be a rariety for Arkansas) My TPS is non-adjustable.

86BirdSE

Interesting, i never heard of a gasket being blown out on the EGR... but I guess a good back fire will do it to ya too. best of luck... I have a pretty decent scan tool that monitors injector pulses, O2 voltage, etc. If I was closer I'd help ya out, and believe me, I totally understand the cold... it's about 18 and dropping with a chance of snow from now till April

Dale

iTrader: (12)

WEll, seems that ever since I gutted the cat, the egr has not had issues

Their is also a tube that comes from the air pump to manifold, it always came loose, since cat was gutted, havn't had that issue.

I tested the injectors with a dvm, tested 12.1-12.3. I understand that I need more air for larger inejectors. But w/o sending them off to get tested, and needing a car to drive in mean time. Installing only 1 step up injectors shouldn't hurt. Car ran fine with slight more gas consumption. Car still had SAME issues, so I took them out.

As for fuel pump, I needed one from this car for my engine swap in s10, so I would have had to spend that money anyway. Labor is free, so I see no harm in installing new pump. Money was gonna get spend, and knocks one more part off the list.

ECT= Engine coolent Temp sensor

Vader

Dale,

If you were blowing off the AIR lines, you may have a bad AIR check valve. Even at that, there would have to be some serious backpressure in the exhaust to cause that, so your cat may have been clogging.

As for the injectors, if they are Multecs, your resistance reading is still acceptable. Of course, that doesn't tell you anything at all about their flow, only the condition of the operating solenoids. You might have other issues with the injectors, like poor spray patterns, sticking pintles, or clogging screens.

It's good that you have a DVM handy. You need to put it to work. Check ground resistance from teh black wire of th eCTS to a good engine ground (like the plenum). Anything beyond the resistance of the meter leads is s problem, and engine grounds are suspect if that is the case.

Next, go the to alternator. With the engine idling, check the voltage directly at the alternator output stud on an AC voltage scale. If you read anything more than 0.2VDC AC voltage, you have a rectifier problem in the alternator, and the AC contingent of the system voltage will screw over the ECM and sensor signals like you wouldn't believe.

Next, go to the TPS. Ignition off - Check the resistance across the sensor while operating the throttle slowly through its full range. If the resistance is linear as the throttle opens, the TPS is O.K. and you can forget about installing a fourth one. Turn on the ignition and test the reference voltage supply to the TPS. If you're not getting 5.0 VDC, you may have a connection problem in the harness or at the ECM. The base voltage only has to be below 1.0 VDC for the ECM to "learn" the TPS postion on system startup.

Finally, and for one more time, you need to "teach" the IAC position to the ECM. You CANNOT just bolt in a new IAC in a '90-later V-6 and expect it to operate correctly unless you're really lucky.

If none of this works, go to www.sethirdgen.org and ask GMTech for his opinion. I'm guessing that Bernie will back up my idea on the IAC setting per the factory procedure.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Vader..

Thats what I was wondering, I have "fixed" everything else. I was starting to lean towards emissions stuff, but finding info on that stuff is next to impossible. Would bad air check valve cause hard/no start?

Alt is brand spanking new. Old one was only putting out 55amps when it should be 100-105.

I had been wanting DVM but never wanted to spend $ tell this prob. I do like it, and worth the $.

Do I have to set IAC every time the damn ecm is reset??

I talked to guy about getting injectors cleaned, he said with 160k+ miles, its usless, get new ones. I dont have 200 bux for them right now, thats why I tryed the 17lb for 2 weeks.

Had response on v6 baord that carbon build up could cause hard start also.


Sorry If I seemed little hasty before, this car is getting on my every last nerve!!!!!

Vader

Dale,

I can understand your frustration. You should only have to set the IAC counts once. Basically, what the procedure does is to adjust the minimum air position of the throttle plates, so the IAC position at a given idle RPM wouldn't change just because you reset the ECM. The problem is that every IAC is slightly different, so setting it initially to get the correct IAC output pulse counts at the target idle is key. This method is used on V-6 engines instead of the "RPM method" for minumum air position because the smaller engines are more sensitive to intake air volume. It's a lot more preceise than the "RPM method" from the perspective of the ECM. The ECM likes to only have to output 10-20 IAC pulses to control the hot idle target RPM so that there is adequate IAC pintle length to allow full RPM control by the ECM on startup and under AC or heavy electrical loads requiring more idle air.

Gotcha on the alternator. It should be O.K., but it only takes about five seconds to test just to be sure. I'd still take a close look at engine grounds for the ECM harness.

The 17# injectors are going to make it run rich in closed loop, and closed loop mode is a little on the rich side to begin with. It shouldn't be a major problem for starting, however. Your 17# injectors should actually be dumping a little more fuel on cold startup, so I doubt that's a problem unless the injectors are leaking and flooding the engine during heat soak.

A failed AIR check shouldn't affect starting either. The only thing that it might cause is a rich condition during closed loop mode since extra air might be entering the exhausts ahead of the O˛ sensor.

The most significant items for hard starting are system cranking voltage, spark plug/ignition system condition (which you've already addressed), vacuum leaks, compression, and ignition/valve timing.

You can check the system voltage while cranking to make sure it remains above 8.5 VDC. Lower than that can cause ECM/EST problems and poor spark energy.

Compression would have to be checked with a cranking comnpression test or cylinder leakage test. Poor compression likely also means poor vacuum.

Your EGR problem was a vacuum leak, and still could be if it isn't closed all the way. The IAC is also a vacuum leak, but a controlled one, like the PCV. Since I mentioned the PCV, make sure that is working properly and not sticking open. You might also want to cap the vacuum line to the power brake booster while starting to make sure you don't have a leaking reservoir. And of course, the intake and other gaskets are potential leaks.

As for the ignition timing, I'm guessing you've already set that. The valve timing would be less of a probability unless you found the ignition timing way off (like 18° or so), which might indicate a skipped timing chain.

BTW - Did you get to test the CTS yet?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

ok, next time I tinker on car, will attempt to set IAC

Ok, so air check valve, if cheap, go ahead and do.

on v6 board, they say I should have white spark, im getting blue, so I prob have issue their. Like rusted distrib components.

Havent done compression test on engine.

Vac guage don't bounce,, and is quite steady once its running.

Timing on our cars is 10deg, when I re-installed distrib, I put it about 10.5-11.0 deg

I installed another CTS when I changed injectors back to 15lbs.

Thanks for your help!!
Gonna try and get a new TPS and some stuff to work on distrib.

FJK

Dale
I've kind of lost track of what problem you are trying to fix at this point in time. I believe you are working on a hard to start issue. Correct? If so, does this mean the engine cranks OK, but will not fire & run? Is this with the engine cold or hot?

I would think everyone trying to help you needs clarification of what problem is trying to be fixed.

Also, if you are going back into the distributor, have you checked the reluctor magnet for cracks? To see this (check for it), I believe the distributor needs to be removed & so does the pick up coil. The reluctor is part of the shaft assembly (at the top) & contains a circular magnet. If the magnet has any radial cracks, it can cause mis-firing, and I'm thinking hard starting when hot. Check it out, if you are going back into the distributor. Only problem is, to check it out as I described may be "going into it" farther than what you were planning.
FJK

Twix

We got the "first/start" of the problems fixed.

Now its being hard to start while engine is cold.

Starts out not wanting to turn over at all.
Wait a few, crank it again, turns over but wont start.
Wait a few more crank it and it tries to start, sounds really rough, but dies.

wait a few more, crank it, it starts idles fine.


Seems we had a collection of problems. It startED out not starting when hot but would start when cold.

Basically got it to start when hot.

NOW it wont start when cold.