Kaukasion

i am going to take my l69 out of the junk car (it runs, smokes a lil) while i got it out and sitting around i planned on cleaning it up painting it and maybe a chrome kit to make it look nice but are there any easy mods i could throw on it for a reasonable price while its out it would be alot easier for me to work on it

what are common thinngs issues/problems with these motors so i know what to watch for running wise

if you can offer any info
please do

thanks
tony

RB83L69

Inadequate bore diameter, mostly

I wouldn't waste a dime on a bunch of chrome garbage that'll just not fit right and create leaks.

89Warbird

Timing chain and gears, which means, might as well put a new cam in it.

VetNutJim

I like chrome stuff.

When I don't have ( or don't want to spend) money to make an engine run super good I like to make it look good.

There's not much you can do without going inside it.

You 'could' pull the harmonic damper and timing chain cover and check the timing chain to make sure it's not worn out.

But THAT has the chance of causing an oil leak around the oil pan or timing chain cover.

You could pull the intake and swap out the cam.... but you'll need new lifters to go with the cam AND a new timing chain.

You could just replace the spark plugs and do a general tune up.
Clean the block and paint it. Install your chrome gear and it'll look good.

Later on when some more dough is on hand you can make some hardware changes to it like maybe better heads, headers, etc.

May even find a good 350 at a good price later on.

I like my equipment to look good to ME.... I don't really care much what other folks think long as when I look at my engines I think to MYSELF... Man! That looks GOOD!

Have fun.. that's what this hobby is all about.

VetNutJim

Hey I just has an idea....

If it smokes when you first start it up......
You could change out the valve stem seals while you have it out.
That would be pretty easy to do while you have easy access to everything.
Change the valve seals and put on a new set of valve cover gaskets.
Chevys ALWAYS need new valve cover gaskets.
They must like'em pretty good too 'cause they always want new ones.

You're going to pull your old ones to put those chrome ones on anyway.Might as well replace those seals while you're in there.

AutoZone and some of the other places is where you may find a valve spring compressor... That's the tool you'll need to do this.

It's great experience and not that hard to do.

RB83L69

That's got to be about the worst "advice" I think I've ever seen.

Well, maybe not the absolute worst; but pretty close.

I used to buy alot of parts at a parts store about 30 years ago or more, in a place where a majority of the population is what likes to call itself a "minority" .... like 70% of the population or thereabouts. The owner of the store was a good friend of mine, and not a member of this "minority". He told me a funny story, wherein a member of the "minority" came in one Friday afternoon wanting a starter. This was evidently a working kind of guy, not a welfare case or a drain on society or a criminal or anything (this was back before crack and gangs as we know them today, and even before r¡cers, were invented), but rather what we might call the "working poor"; someone that was willing to rise above sitting on his butt and waiting for a handout and complaining it wasn't enough. You'd think he would understand the rules better than he did. Anyway, a starter was $32 or something at the time. The guy was all about "Aww, come on man, all I got is $25, and I can't drive my car; lemme have that starter for $25". The parts guy told him he couldn't do that, a starter is $32. The guy argued some more, finally gave up, and bought $25 worth of air fresheners and curb feelers and stuff like that, and left with empty pockets. Next Friday, he was back in the store, with $25; trying to buy a starter again. The price hadn't changed; so this time he bought some other useless trinkets for his car that didn't work, and left. The next Friday, he showed up again, with $25...... I don't know how many times before he came in with a friend that had more money or whatever.

Don't be like that person who obviously didn't understand money; and blew his entire paycheck on worthless crap, instead of putting just a little bit of it aside, so that next Friday when he got paid again, he'd be able to get his car working again. If you can't afford what you really want, then don't blow all your money on useless crap that doesn't do a bit of good; instead, save it up, so you can get closer to your goal. Every penny you piddle away on "chrome" and "dress-up" and a "Krylon rebuild" and otherwise pointlessly monkeying around with your engine that needs actual repair, is another penny you put yourself farther away from what you really want.

The smoke is usually valve guide seals. That part of it is a good idea. They're cheap, and Auto Zone will "rent" you a spring compressor for free; or you can buy one for like $7. Same for the valve cover gaskets. DON'T put it back together with cork ones; get the Fel-Pro rubberized ones, VS12869R. They'll last several times as long.

But the first thing you should do, is take the car to the quarter car wash, let it sit in the bay for a few minutes and cool down, saturate the whole thing with a couple of cans of engine degreaser (diesel fuel in a spray can), and let it soak for a few minutes; then spend about $10 on blasting all the accumulated muck off of it. It's the best, most cost-effective mod you can do to make it easier to work on. Chrome gewgaws won't help.

VetNutJim

Well you NEVER knowwhen some A$$HOLE is goingto be offended.

So what part of it so offended you?

Who elected YOU as the 'advice' judge? I DIDN'T vote for you anyway.

The guy wants to spend 20 dollars on his engine to make it look better.

So where did YOU start??? Rebuilding Allison Aircraft engines??

Geesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! &*(^)%)$%^#Q*Q)*&%^$

You know I'd slap you upside the head if you cracked off to me like that in person.
Actually I'm betting a hunderd you WOULDN'T smart off to me in person like that.

Friggen know it alls... the world is full of those that 'think' they have all the answers.


Can't we just all get along without throwing out that kindof crap.

If you can't post something wothwhile, just keep yer yap
SHUT.

Kaukasion:
Buy your dress up items and ENJOY putting them on. Don't pay any attention to those that would attempt to steal your joy.

razor

Made me look......

http://dictionary.reference.com/word...999/05/21.html

Streetiron85

If you slap up RB, he might not be there for you when you need him.
When you have a difficult problem of a technical nature, he's a good guy to have around, cause he'll usually have the answer when others don't. Despite the fact that he's somewhat opinionated, when it comes to "gewgaws" and "McDonalds parking lot monkey spank"

ljnowell

Is there anyone you dont try to offend on here?

VetNutJim

No one who doesn't deserve it.

Some of you guys seem to enjoy hiding behind your keyboard.
If you read ALL the post you'll se that I NEVER,NEVER,NEVER and I'll say NEVER again fire the first shot.

But if folks just can't help posting insulting remarks I don't mind responding in kind.

I'd RATHER be nice. I'd ALWAYS RATHER be nice.

Now go and find one instance of where I attacked someone just 'out od the blue'.

This forum will be what the people here MAKE it be.

If you want a bunch of insulting and backbiting and that's what you LIKE then don't complain when someone bites back.

If the forum is to be what I WANT it to be we'll all be nice and respectful to each other.

But DON'T expect me to just take insults and disrespect quitely.

Do YOU???????????????????

Stekman

Guys, guys guys.....can we please take this bickering and bantering to the private message fields? Thank you.

VetNutJim

That's puzzling.... MOST folks that really know their CHIT don't go around insulting other people.
His comments were uncalled for, inappropriate and dissapointing to say the least since he's so supposed to 'be so smart'.

I think there are a few guys oon here that feel the 'need' to be the 'advice authority'.

I guess I've just stepped on their toes by coming here.

But this forum is for "everybody" not just those 'experts' that can't even remember when they first started learning about working on cars or whatever.

The guy from his post is OBVIOUSLY just starting out or his post would have been more specific like "How the heck do I depress these valve springs to get those seals on there",.
It wasn't like that.... EVERYBODY has to start SOMEWHERE.

When he removes his old stock vavle covers to put on those GEE WHIZ CHROME ONES, he'll SEE what he's been reading about.
He is likely to feel he can go one step further.
We ALL learn a step at a time.

Besides it's HIS MONEY, not RB.
Heck, you'd think RB was the guys daddy,

Anyway, if you experts feel I've usurped you're 'authority' then too bad.

If you throw insults at me you'll likely get'em back threefold.

Is that what you experts think about this forum? It's your personal playhouse where you can just throw insults out at people freely??
What a waste of time.

Red Devil

Bwahahahahahaha!!!! Damn we need that spit funny smilie!!

Yea, you just offended me. I’m an *******. What a coincidence. What’s the matter? Can’t take a contrary opinion? Too closed minded to have someone contradict you? This is the best you could do for a counter-argument? Man, I sure hope you are still in school so you can start concentrating on your lessons. Maybe take a few English courses with Mikey while you’re at it.

Oh… I don’t know… the arrogant self-loving assumption that your opinion is the only correct one, that you are trying to bash one of the premier members of the site, and that you unabashedly think I give two shi<x>ts what you think. Maybe the crappy structure of your post since you are trying, I think, to make a point. :shrug: A bunch of stuff I guess.

Neither did I, but you know what? I’d bet he’d be in the top ten if there ever was a vote. I’d also bet you’d be in Sahne’s neighborhood.

Stop blowing smoke up the kid’s ***. A polished turd is still a turd. Can’t change that fact.

Well, two things come to mind here.
1. you just threatened a member, and as you may have noted, not just any particular member. In either case, that is banishment material. Thank you for making it easy.
2. Knowing RB, I’d have to say, that yes, he’d say that to your face. Without hesitation. If asked or was part of a conversation and someone spouted off something he considered stupid or harmful(which incidentally is true on a board such as this). As would I.
Stupid is stupid (see: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=254975 for stupid things seen on this board). Not calling it stupid does not make it clever. If you are not man enough to have your ideas challenged and ground to manure, I have no doubt that you would indeed try smacking him upside the head. Granted, it would be a mistake, but I have no doubt you’d be stupid enough to try.

Like you?
Yep, they usually are the ones telling everyone that their view is the only acceptable one, then they spout crap like the above all the time. Want to see a great example of a know it all? Morley did quite well in that role.

[Morley] You are mistaken, Accel produces nothing but immaculate and superior injector sets. If you hear anything other than that ignore it, it is a lie or misinformation from ignorant children. [/Morley]

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=271828

Mayhap you’ll start calling us children?

This is of course putting aside the fact that RB is quite, quite knowledgable and has built no few engines and as such, speaks from experience. He’s probably been building engines longer than most on these boards have been alive, the old bastahd.

Can't we just all get along without throwing out that kindof crap.

Here we go again. Your board? No, thought not. You post something, I get to respond. It really is not that difficult to grasp, yet people like you seem to have a fundamental problem grasping it. If you want to hear yourself speak, go buy a tape recorder. If you don’t want someone to give you an opinion, don’t ask and don’t post. If you post I can answer. It is a very simple concept. If you don’t like the rules, I’m sure you could harass Dirk, though I doubt you’d get far. You could try Iroc, but I think he is getting less and less patient with the idiotic riff-raff bantering about and I would imagine your pleas would fall on deaf ears. I sincerely doubt anyone would want top visit www. VetNutJim.com

Or point you in a more appropriate and cost effective direction. There is a reason for the saying ‘Chrome don’t get you home’.

That is all, carry on, we now bring you back to our regularly scheduled programs…

nsimmons

VetNutJim
Dont take these guys too seriously, they all have blinders on when it comes to doing things. Unless your getting maximum performance anything else is a waste. I asked about a cam for my engine and these 4 all freaked on me for the heads I was using. Didnt matter to them that the heads were free and i refused to buy new ones. I was informed my car would be a pile and would be worked by a stock L98 (my goal was to be faster than one). Thankfully i didnt take their advice and my dirt cheap engine is able to destroy, by car lengths, my friends lt1 6spd.

My post from last may, notice how the same members jumped all over me.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&highlight=cam

Kaukasion
Buy your chrome, paint your engine, spend 30 bucks to dress it up, who gives a sh*t if its not fast. We dont all need fast daily drivers. Duplicolor makes this neat translucent paint that works great on chrome. I spent 10 dollars to dress up my engine. I have 10k miles on it now and no it didnt wear off.

http://sneakweasel.freeservers.com

Vader

Jim,

You've evidently been around the block once or twice, and have some experiences and knowledge to offer. In order that you can continue, you'll have to try to remember that a different opinion is not necessarily an insult. There are thousands of members here, and each likely has a slightly different set of experiences and opinions.

You are absolutely correct that this site is for everyone, provided that the rules are observed. That applies to the new members as well as the more seasoned. Don't get yourself caught up in flame wars.

Just be tolerant of others opinions, and expect the same from everyone else. If someone takes exception to your opinion, feel free to argue your point, but please refrain from the kind of language that tends to turn members into former members. Thanks for your time.

Vader

Kaukasion,

Back to your original question, the answer(s) depends on what you intend to do with the engine. If it is going to power a daily driver, you'll be looking for some longevity.

If it were mine, and I were pulling it out of an engine bay, I'd find it very difficult not to bolt it into a stand and freshen up at least the bottom end before dropping it into a different (or the same) vehicle. For about the price of two of those chrome dress-up kits, you can have new bearings, new rings, and some real confidence in how long and well the engine will run.

As for the chrome, bolt them on if you like, but don't expect them to fit or seal well if they are the typical parts store variety kits. The rocker covers are generally too short, lack the correct CCV and oil filler openings, and don't have the necessary vapor baffles to prevent sucking all the oil out of your engine through the PCV valve. The timing covers are typically too thin and flexible, and the lack of a reliable timing tab after installation will make the setup of your engine more difficult at best. You might be better off with a stiff wire brush, sandpaper, and new paint for the original covers. For about the price of a chrome kit, you might be able to have the original covers refinished in powder coat paint in your favorite color.

The "kit" variety of covers are generally made of material more suited to wrapping a sandwich than covering and sealing an engine. If you spend the extra dollars to get good ones, you'll be spending a LOT more than the "kit" that you may be considering. You'll also get a better fit and taller covers to clear decent rocker arms, and a timing cover that is actually suitable to retain an oil seal for the crank snout.

If the engine is going to be for a "fun" car, that same handful of cash can get you a low-buck flat tappet camshaft that will truly make the engine run differently, even though it might look "plain"when you open the hood.

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

I love the fact that people are trying to teach someone what to properly do, so the person doesn't have to make the same mistakes many of us made. But theres other people who would prefer the guy just waste his money and make those mistakes on his own. That's nice of you guys.

I'm the last person to tell someone not to put chrome on his motor. I have to wear shades to open my hood. But to tell someone that it's a good idea to do that, instead of fixing the engine while he has it out is absurd. C'mon guys.

While the motors out at the very least do the valve seals. Nobody is going to care that your engine is shiney if you show up with smoke coming out the pipes.

And like Vader said, those cheapo kits are not worth it. The covers warp easily and seal like crap. Not too mention I'm not sure if they make those cheap kits with centerbolts covers.

I'd clean up the motor. Change seals, hit it with a coat of paint. You can always add some chrome later.

RB83L69

Yerbasic cheeeeep chrome valve covers lack proper provisions for PCV, and usually support only "breathers" (usually proprietary.... extra money), so your car will always surround itself in an aura of oil vapor; they often interfere with minor details like the alternator, leading to further de-engineering of the affected systems and consequent unreliability in them; the chrome flakes off and then they rust mercilessly within a couple of months of putting them on; they often interfere with the A/C, so even if it works now, it won't afterwards, and your car will begin to acquire the de-valuing patina and aroma of sun-baked BO all over the seats and door panels; etc. etc. etc.

Yes there's alot more to building a car than making it go fast, or spending lots of money on parts, and all that. The thing to avoid, is using your own money as the weapon to shoot yourself in the shorts with. Those cheeeeep chrome "dress-up" kits are exactly that: a money pit that you don't even realize it's possible to dig yourself into; a downward spiral of "I put these on, now the so-and-so doesn't fit, I had to cut the wires, move the such-and-such, then they started leaking, then they started to rust, and now I have to get new ones."

I'll give you an example of the kind of downward spiral I'm talking about. My late little brother had a car some time ago, and we were out driving somewhere one night, and he saw what looked like a paper bag in the road. He decided to run over it. Turns out, it was actually a mud clod. It hit his exhaust and broke the ears off of the exhaust manifold where the pipe hooked up to it. Exhaust shops wanted however much to weld it back together, probably $20 or so; he decided that it was the perfect opportunity to put headers on the car. So he bought the cheeeeeeepest headers he could find (probably Doug Thorley), seems like they were around $60 or so; and rigged the exhaust to them. Well, his car had a column shift, and the headers were designed poorly, such that the column shift wouldn't work any more; so he had to rig that up too. It never really worked very well, and it was always shifting the car into some other gear all on its own, just from the vibration and motion of the motor. Well, because of the way the trans linkage in that car went, it was very difficult to get it into or out of Park, which meant that it was difficult to move the ignition switch; so he only turned it off when he absolutely had to. One day, he stopped in a store to grab something, left the car sitting in front idling, got out and went in the store; while he's buying his stuff, he hears its sound change (it was loud as hell, since it was exhaust leak city); he got done buying his stuff, and turned around just in time to see his car backing itself across a 50 mph 6-lane road into heavy traffic. Evidently the half-assed shift linkage he had rigged up to work around the headers, had shifted it from Park to Reverse at a critical moment. It wrecked another car on its way across, and landed in a real deep drainage ditch on the other side of the road, and smashed in the whole passenger side of the car. He had to pay to get his car towed out of the ditch, and pay for the other car; and in the next day or 2, a tire on it went flat, and where we lived we had no off-street parking; he couldn't afford a tire right away, paying for the other car and the tow bill and all, so the police towed it off after 4 or 5 days of sitting there with a flat, as an obviously wrecked and disabled junk car. The car got auctioned off before he could finish paying for the other car it had wrecked and redeem his own. That's the kind of unforeseeable chain of consequences that happens from poorly thought-out mods using cheeeeep parts; maybe "chrome" probably won't lead to quite that level of catastrophe, but then again, he never thought that installing a cheeeeep set of headers would lead where it did, either.

Those of us who have been enjoying this hobby for a few decades, before the invention of boards like these for sharing our experiences, have either made alot of these mistakes ourselves or seen our friends make them. We'd like to help others avoid them, while it's easy, before money gets spent. Unfortunately a number of people post here with their list of what they're about to do, looking for reinforcement rather than advice; and then when they're told the truth based on long years of experience about their announced intentions, they think they're getting picked on. That's OK too; I can keep my accumulated knowledge and experience to myself, and when that person later on has a difficulty that they can't figure out but it's something I've seen before and can tell them what to do, I have the option of not posting too... just like they have the option of not taking my advice. I'm not the only one that looks at it that way.

Lesson number 1: if you can't aford what you really want, don't spend your money on a substitute. Save it up until you have enough to get the right thing.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I've owned a few L69s. My first, I bought in Petersburg from a guy who works in Springfield.

I personally would do the valve stem / guide seals (use all positive style; I believe it's "get 16 exhaust seals instead of 8 int/ 8 exh) a new timing set, and the pan / rear main seal gaskets. If you have the budget, a slight upgrade in camshaft would be a good idea. That's all I would touch internally on a budget build L69.

The chrome, I'm not into so I can't recommend. Headers and then a GM ZZ4 intake would be nice basic upgrades too.

Good luck.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I vote for doing the bottom end now that you can get to it. Then the heads. I don't know how many times I've been warned not to do the heads without redoing the block. You can pull the heads out with the engine in the car if you have to. This is a classic situation I even know not to do. You're half way there and the investment will give you a dependable ride for a long time and maybe help the resale. In the end boring is always better. Don't be a marketing victim.

If you insist on the the chrome thing at least you'll have something to look at while it's sitting by the side of the garage.

Sorry, I couldn't help it. Besides I'll take a ton of crap if I'm given invaluable info from people that care enough to respond.

Red Devil

Why not post up some dyno charts or time slips and see how close you came to your stated goal. You did ask for advice, didn't like it and then decided to lash out at people.. As Five7 said, you got a dose of reality, you don't have to drink it. :shrug:

You, as well as anyone with a level head, should also notice I didn't open up my yap until certain people swung. That is usually what irks me on these boards... well, besides the poor advice.

nsimmons

After the 4 revisions, I'll take the high ground.

RD kindly never respond to any of my posts again.

Thank you.

razor

.....

nsimmons

by 90% you're aware i mean the hords of v6 and tbi cars which constitute most fbodies.

but im erasing my other post too..

Saskatchewan huh, you dont even need a drag strip. I'll bet you can drive 100 miles in any direction and its nothing but prairie. I havent been there since i was 12.

Red Devil

Ok Dirk... wait, you're not.

Red Devil

Just responding.

BTW, Not my fault you take things out of context. Not my fault if you fell short of your stated goals or that you didn't like the advice you got with regard to that request. As you may have noted, and as was previously mentioned, I very, very rarely throw down first. That should explain enough to ya.

Stekman

Back to the original poster:

DIY P&P 416 heads, cut for 1.94" intake valves, new springs, blah blah
Xe256h cam
ZZ4 Intake
Performer 600 cfm carb
Mallory HEI

That's the basic idea of my LG4 that was for my Caprice. Works with a factory gearing, compression, and stall. It got me around.

[/end relevance to original poster]

You may now continue the bickering.