88Camaro1993

iTrader: (1)

I have a 88 Camaro 305

Alright, had no problems all day driving to school, then work, then home.

Then i went to go move it for my mother to be able to get out of the driveway, and she has no power to the inside.

Under the hood, i have power, but inside, none. No headlights, no interior lights, gauges, ignition, nothing....

I replaced the alternator yesterday...
And the battery 2 weeks ago......

Alternators tight, battery terminals are tight and clean....

Whats going on?

Im guessing a fuse?


Im ready to murder someone.....
I need help!!!

Thanks...
Brent

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Check to make sure you have power coming off the starter, with the key "on"...

ON the solenoid you've got one post going to the battery positive. Then going up from the small posts on the solenoid, one is negative, the other is positive and should have 2-3 wires on it. This goes hot when you turn the key "on". On my T/A one of those wires completely rotted through and burned off, entire car died, no power anywhere. They were all terribly heat-soaked and brittle. One too many pot holes on the road and it just broke. So check to make sure your wires are good coming up from the starter. Also, on my 67 Camaro, my solenoid shorted out internally causing the same kind of issue.

Another thing could be an inline fuse, I believe there is one between the solonoid and the ignition but another person here would have to confirm.

Check ALL of your fuses in the fuse box to make sure it's something that simple.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yes, there are fusible links and they are down by the starter on the big power lug that the Batt cable runs to... They power a lot of things in the car.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Contrary to the above post, the fusible links go to the large terminal on the solenoid, the same one that the battery cable goes to. That point is basically the junction where nearly all the car's systems connect to the battery. Contrary to the above post, there are no "negative" wires at the solenoid or starter from the factory. The "negative" side of the electrical system consists of the battery cable going to the engine, a large (but much smaller than the batt cable) ground wire going from the neg batt terminal to the chassis, various wires on the engine connecting the ECM's "ground" side to the engine, and a strap or 2 from the engine to the chassis to keep it all as equalized as possible. The chassis itself then serves as the neg side of the system for most of the car's electrical stuff.

There are at least 2, maybe 3, fusible links at the starter, depending on year & model. All the stuff inside the car is split between them... the feed to the ignition switch and therefore everything it controls (including the starter) is on one or another of them, headlight switch and everything downstream of that (headlights, tail lights, dash lights) is on one or another, power accessories are connected to one or another, etc. Thus when one of them opens, a substantial amount of the stuff inside the car doesn't work any more. Sounds like that's what you've got, and therefore where you need to look.

There is ONLY ONE small wire going to the starter, and it goes to ONLY ONE terminal, the "S" one. Contrary to the above post, it is NOT "hot in run", it is hot ONLY in "start". There ARE NO "hot in run" wires at the starter in one of these cars with the factory wiring. There were such wires in older cars, that used a ballast resistor in the ignition system, which went to the "R" terminal on the starter; but that system was dropped in GM cars when HEI was introduced in 74 & 75. It was not used in these cars from the factory.

88Camaro1993

iTrader: (1)

Thank you guys very much! Im going to go out to my car right now and start looking around! Ill let you know what it was! Thanks again!

zzjakect

This information is great! I had posted a question about this very same issue on the electronics board and had zero answers. I guess I should use this board for problems like this. Thanks for the info.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Hmm, ok. I know I added a wire for my fuel pump relay, goes "hot" at start. And I know there is one coming from my alternator and one that goes up to the ignition. But I have one more then that I don't know what it's for. I have three total one one terminal (the larger solenoid terminal) and one going to the other terminal. You got me curious now. Sorry for any misinformation, just going on what I've discovered on my car.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

This board gets more views. When I have posted on the other boards, typically a day goes by before I get a response. this one usually gets a response within a couple of hours.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Key words there in my post, "from the factory", "with the factory wiring", etc. ... a wire someone else has added is a different story.

You're right: there's an add'l wire from the big terminal of the alt to the pos term of the batt; like the smaller ground wire at the neg term, it's a fairly big wire, but still much smaller than the batt cable itself. I didn't mention that one because it's not really very related to the issue at hand. But you're right, it's most definitely there.

Yeah the electronics board seems to be the place to talk about audio and such as that; not so much the car's basic electrical system.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

One of the wires off my positive terminal on the solenoid cooked off, burned right through and broke from heat-soak and brittleness. Killed the whole car. No start, no interior lights, nothing. The whole car just "died"...I couldn't believe that one wire could do that. I don't think it was the alternator wire, so it had to have been the one up to the ignition. Had a big round balast looking thing on it, probaby the inline fuse. Spliced up, got rid of the fuse, no more issues but lost the protection of the inline fuse.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That would have been, one of the "fusible links".... looks like a regular piece of wire except that it's only a few inches long at the end of another wire and is about 3-4 gauges smaller (50% cross-sect area or so) than the wire it's attached to. The big round thing is just a blob of some kind of spooge they encased the splice in. That's a common way for those to fail, I've had them do the same thing. Could esaily be what happened to the OP.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Alright, that was it then. The wire the burned and broke was about a 20 gauge and the wire I spliced into was 14-16 gauge.

Anyway, back to OP, yes, that's what I was first thinking when he said it went dead, though I've also seen where a short in the solenoid won't let any power across it causing the same issue.

zzjakect

How does one test the solenoid for a short? A resistance check across the terminals? Or check both terminals to see if they go short to ground?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

They basically NEVER short, unless they're falling apart; which requires no "test" to spot. Not something that really needs to be "tested".

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

When I replaced my starter/solenoid on my Camaro it fixed the issue. It may basically never happen, but to me it did, maybe have been a 1/1000000 chance, but it did. Can only offer experience and stuff to look at.

As sofa and I mentioned, probably a wiring issue and I would look there first.

zzjakect

I looked at the starter and solenoid and while fiddling with the wires they all fell into my hand! They were run next to the headers and burned and crisped. I bought new wires and will run tomorrow. I got extra length so I can run them away from headers. I also bought some heat sheild to wrap where needed.

I hope the solenoid did not fail when the wires shorted out (if they did). Thanks again for the follow up answers. This is a great site! How did people restore cars before the internet and car forums?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Kinda like I still do, with a factory service manual..

zzjakect

What manual is best and where is the best place to purchase it? Ebay?

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

With your wires falling apart, that's exactly what happened to mine. Wrap them when you install new wire, it helps, but the plastic on the wires will probably still melt. There's really no good way to get them down there. I know on my carbed car I get alot of heat by them when I run the car and it's cold out, high idle with the choke and all.

I also wrapped my starter in a heat shield using that wrap material, just to help prevent heat soak issues in the future.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Don't just buy "wire". Those are "special"; they're fusible links. Fuses, basically, to protect the rest of the wire. If not replaced correctly then later on if there's a fault of some kind elsewhere in the car's wiring and they don't "blow" properly (like any fuse is supposed to), there's a risk of setting the car on fire or other severe damage.

Their insulation is usually Hypalon or XLPE; regular "wire" will melt even worse, and you'll be right back where you are again shortly.

You can get em at parts stores; even AutoZone and such; hanging on a card in the Electrical aisle. Get one that's the same gauge as the one that was there from the factory, just like fuses.

Covering em with sleeving is probably a good idea.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

A factory service manual. Helm.
The best place to get it is from someone thats giving it away, other than that, use whatever you can to find the best price. swap meets. C-list. evil-pay. thrift-store
I think you can still get one new from helm..

zzjakect

I did get the high-temp wire from Autozone. I plan to reroute them away from headers, heat wrap them and maybe run through a metal tube to protect them. I also got new battery cables to the alternator and the starter.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

That's what I didn't do, because I didn't know any better at the time. The wires have melted together pretty good so I need to try and find some high-temp wire to replace them. Yet another one of my "projects" will add to the list that never seems to end...just annother thing to annoy the wife. "you're bying something ELSE for the CAR!?" hahaha

zzjakect

I understand your pain! This is a new project that I have passed as a way to teach my two sons (17 and 13 years old) about maintaining their cars. I learned as a kid that changing oil, brakes, spark plugs, etc. was a do-it-yourself project that saves big bucks. Buying a pile of metal that was once a 1985 Z28 is a whole step beyond that. I hope my wife remains understanding as the costs pile up.

88Camaro1993

iTrader: (1)

turns out it was a loose/corroded fusible link. cleaned it up, tightened it up, its all good! Thanks everyone!

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I'm glad it was that simple! Most times it is that "easy" to figure out. Sofa's signature sums it all up pretty well as does my KISS Theory. "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID"...sadly, I tend to fail at following my own advice. haha Anyway, congrats on getting the car up and running!

zzjakect

My two boys (17 and 14) and I have finally got to the point of trying out the fix. We put in a new fuel pump. Installed all new cables and wires to starter, engine harness, and battery. New battery. Heat shieleded wires to protect them from headers (ran them through a metal pipe-wrapped in heat shield)............. Tomorrow we are ready to "plug it all in" and see what we have. I'll let you know what happens after we reinstall the starter (which we bench tested). The boys are loving this.

Thanks in advance for all your input!

zzjakect

Failed! Reinstalled starter and applied power. Regained electrical power in cabin, but the starter doesn't turn. Nothing happens when the key is turned to start. Checked wiring connections and all seemed well. Pulled it all out and found that the large diameter pink cable is shorted to ground. I doubt this is right! Traced wire to large plug entering the cabin. Will try to pull plug and test wire for short.

Any ideas?

zzjakect

After reading all the posts again is it possible the pink wire should go to the ground side of solenoid? When the wires burned I could not tell where they came from but just assumed the pink was to power side? This would explain why it would go to ground. I'll wait for some input before trying to move the cable. Hopefully avoiding another meltdown.

84z350crate

Same issue here ever figure it out?

TysonNorthcott9

Hey my friends 1992 trans am GTA Bogs out at 2500 rpms and won't start unless you spray gas in the intake ...He was told it might be a cam sensor. He changed the fuel pump in it already and the filter and it still does the same thing

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No "cam sensor" in that car. Can't be that.

What's the fuel pressure if you turn the key to "On" but not "Start"?

rgarcia63

There are 5 wires on the Solenoid Battery Terminal with Red insulation:

• Heavy gage cable to battery
• Fuseable link with 2 wires - one ignition, one power distrubution
• Fuseable link for power distribution
• Fuseable link to alternator

Anything connected to the Solenoid Battery Terminal is "Hot at all Times".

One Purple wire on the Solenoid Start Terminal this completes the ignition circuit through the ignition switch and Neutral, or clutch safety switch.
There are other fueable links i.e. Cooling Fans ...etc.

As Sofa said all power returns to the Battery thru chassis/motor metal.

barryjoe

Bad battery terminals could cause this. If you haven't, check to make sure you're getting voltage in the On position