NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

I'm in the process of buying everythin to rebuild/build a 78 350 to swap for my 305. I plan on taking the eldelbrock performer intake and just putting it and the carb on the 350 from my 305.

My issue I need belp with is choosing heads for the motor. I kinda want to get some aluminum ones, but I don't know what dimensions or what not to get. Nor do I know if I should just buy some complete heads, or buy them bare. If I buy them bare, what do I need to make them complete. Also, by upgrading the heads, to I need to upgrade the cam? Or anything else.
I know it may seem like I don't know anything but I'm trying to learn. So pleas have some patience with me if I ask a lot of questions.

Thanks!

midias

Lost of questions and little information.

What are you goals for the motor?

What is your budget?

Can you assemble heads?

Why aluminum?

NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

Goals- keeping my car a daily driver but having the power to play around w/ at the track. 300+ hp maybe?
Budget is probably right at or around 1000
I've never assembled heads before
Just figured aluminum due to less weight, but since this isn't going to be straight drag, that much weight won't matter too much

midias

Good aluminum heads are going to cost at least 1000 and you still need gaskets and bolts.


For 300hp I would get some vortec iron heads 1.94 valves. Have a shop clean them up if they are used, also install some new beehive springs. Then go with a mild cam and a vortec manifold. Get some self aligning rockers or have the heads modded for guide plates and go from there.

300hp easy

Depending on your cam (flat tappet or roller) you can make 300hp easy for about 1-1.3k

peterc005

Check out the Pro Comp aluminium heads from Skip White. They seem the best bang for your buck.

midias

Do some research first skip has had some issues with bad valve materials and pitting. Also those heads seems to have poor flow characteristics for how large the runners are which results in a less flat power band.

I looked at those heads for a long time before I bought mine and I just could not convince my self that they were worth the gamble. Others enjoy them a lot.

NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

I didn't think the vortec heads would fit on the pre 86 blocks. I thought those were for the LS1s?

Should I get a new cam or just keep whats already there? for the rebuild kit, should I get the one that comes with new piston heads?

midias

You thought wrong. LS1 engines use LS heads. Vortec heads will fit a standard small block chevy even pre 86. I have a set of modded vortec head on my 79 350 block.

I would get a new cam and I would match it to your combo. I would also save for a retro roller kit if you can.

peterc005

I've been looking at Skip White Pro Comp aluminium heads for a while. Looks like the early ones had problems, but they have been sorted and are a good option now.

From memory the Pro Comp heads are copies of the Edelbrock heads.

The Procomp heads appear popular with racers.

NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

can someone post a link so I have an idea of what exactly I'm looking for. And how would I match the the cam?

NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

what do you guys think about these? the only concern I have is the valve cover stud

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ker-heads.html

midias

My problem is AFTER CNC porting and cleaning up they still don't flow well for a 210cc head, skip does not even list lower than 300 lift but here are his specs.

From Skip White PROCOMP 210 with cnc d comb.
270 is not bad for 600 and most street heads with 180cc chambers don't come close to 270 but many 180cc heads will make 245 at 500 lift.

Racers may like them because the run higher lifts, but even at high lifts dart and edelbrock similar cc heads can waste them.

Also remember these are NOT stock procomp numbers they are CNC modded procomps.

Most of us will not be running more than 500 lift. If we look at better heads with smaller intake runners we will see the same flow. The larger runners will make for a more peaky powerband. The smaller intake will give you much more linear power.


Here is a good example edelbrocks E street heads 185cc

Now the edlebrocks will cost about 900 for the pair assembled which is more than pro comp. There are better heads than the edelbrocks but they are expensive.

For the thread starter if he is shooting for about 300 hp he wants small CC heads about 170-180 so he can make solid power across the entire band.

midias

Those will do the job just fine for 300hp

midias

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/search.php

Do some research and reading on how heads and cams work and what the specs mean.

NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

ok, well what will I need to get for those heads to get running? will my eldelbrock performer intake fit those?

I really appreciate all of the help/info Midias

midias

Gasket kit and bolts.

They use the standard SBC manifold pattern so probably the intake will fit but because edelbrock makes about 15 different performer manifolds I cannot be sure without a part number.

The valve cover bolt should not be an issue.

NCcowboy

iTrader: (2)

ok, well I was planning on buying a rebuild kit from summit to rebuild the whole engine anyways. he also has a cam for sale and a double roller timing chain and was possibly gonna get those to go with them. What rocker arms should I get for these heads?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...8-lifters.html

midias

That is a used flat tappet cam. Make sure the lifters get put back in the same location they came out. The cam lobes and the lifters become a pair.

For rockers a set of comp rollers will be fine, I know a lot of guys running high energy diecast arms for a low cost solution.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

210cc is WAY too big for a motor with a Performer intake.

I would avoid Skip White and other low-bid Chinese cheeeeeeepest of the cheeeeeeeeep (and not all that expensive either) junk.

Before choosing heads, it would be a good idea to figure out what your compression will be, with various combos. To get that, you need to know what pistons are in it; or at least, what the dish volume is, and how far "down in the hole" they are at TDC (aka "deck clearance"). What are those numbers?

rb89gta

Personally, for the info i gathered from your post ... and the little power you are looking for, hyperuetectic pistons, scat crank and rods, get on ebay or call kmj performance they sell a set of Assault aluminium heads that will be more than adequate for your goals, hyd. roller cam and lifters, they make better power and are more reliable / forgiving . Keep the 1.6 rockers ( you can run a little milder cam and make the same power ) say around 232/238@ .050 & .462/ .488 lift & set your compression@ 10:1. this will yield 300-350 hp reliably for years

rb89gta

I would prefer an edlebrock performer RPM, but, the intake you have will support your pwr goals . just gasket match the runners and heads, use a 650 cfm carb. ( you can run a 750 but really ... you do not need to ). Put a decent distributor, coil, plugs & wires .
unfortunately, your not going to do all of the above for $1,000.00! You are going to need to have the tranny rebuilt as well . putting a fresh 300+ hp engine in front of a tired tranny and u joints is not something I would recommend
But, I would say to you ... buy what you can, as you can until you have all that you need ... then build it and put it in your car.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

rb89gta

Yes, he can do that.. but the cost of buying used junk, paying to have them fixed and modified, will cost him more money & time! Iknow this from experience, you think you can save money but the reality is once you compare the two ways, you will see you didn't and more than likely ... you would have been better off buying a ready to run new set!
he doesn't have to get the set I recommend, but if he simply gets on line and really wants to find a good enough set of heads, he can, for less than most people think .
ebay, probably $600.00 for a complete set of 180-195 cc runner heads that will handle .550 lift hyd. roller! do what ya want, it's not a competition for me... just my opinion, from my experience .
good luck

rb89gta

I just jumped over to ebay, typed in : sbc aluminium heads & on the first page found at least 5 complete sets of heads for $513-650.00 that will make the power that you want, with no problem ( probably more. ) . you will find that, to make less than 350 hp with a 355 ci sbc..... you really have to try and put together a bad combination! the small block 350 is probably the easiest engine to make reliable power

rb89gta

Look, with a 4.030 ( .030 over stock. ), a 3.500 stroke ( could be 3.48 ), a 64 cc combustion chamber, a stock replacement bore/ compressed height head gasket, .010-.020 ( in the cylinder ), deck height & a 4cc valve relief flat top piston, will yield 10.2-10.3:1 compression, great performance and pump gas friendly . you don't need a huge runner head and / or cam package to make thbetter power than you are asking for .
just, keep driving what you have, buy a piece at a time and build it rite the first time, or you'll have nothing but problems!

rb89gta

Oh yeah, and when you order your rotating assembly, for the love of God, please .... get it with a 6" rod! it's just a better combo

cuisinartvette

[QUOTE=peterc005;5307825]

From memory the Pro Comp heads are copies of the Edelbrock heads.

Hate to be a wet towel but racers are spending money on good heads, PC imo arent.
ProMaxx all those import pos.Unless Im mistaken the 210 pc needs a 1206gasket your performer wont be able to match that

Ask them how they are holding up after 15-20kmiles lol

Thinking most that buy them simply dont know any better

Please when itcomes to heads brand name is where its at you usually get what you pay for.

Know most are car poor (like myself) so the cheap price and big promises may get you thinking.. but saving up for good ones will save you headaches down the road

rb89gta

I agree. whole heartedly! I myself have tried to make cheap heads work & ended up with more money in them and got less head, than I would've if i waited, saved and bought what Iknew would work .

rb89gta

Any news on which way you decided to go? I am always interested in how different people build there engine and. what power it makes . I hope you succeed in your goals and if ya have questions, as you can tell by this thread .... there are many different back grounds and a wealth of knowledge here in this forum