MeanFbirdT/A

I was wondering if anyone knows the best way to delete the smog pump and equipment off an 84' computer controlled E4ME LG4 and swap to a mechanical edelbrock 600? My Rochester is in rough shape and falls flat on its face past 1/4 throttle. So instead of rebuilding it I thought of just swapping to an edelbrock I have lying around that I just rebuilt. I want to know what needs to be done/ removed and the best procedure possible. I could do it on my own but I'm sure someone on here knows much better than me! Thank you! Also my pump is run off a vbelt.

1982Z28Modified

Yes I do. Just finished that project on my 82 Z28. Complete emissions delete, computer delete, upgrade to a Holley 4175. Plus a serpentine conversion.

The questions I have for you... Are you a competent mechanic? How much time and money are you willing to spend?

The best way to delete the smog pump is convert to serpentine. It's a much cleaner look and easier to work on. You can go to any salvage yard and get what you need from a 94 GM pickup or Suburban. Get both brackets from the left and right side. Make sure you get the passenger side bracket without the smog pump mount. You will need the power steering pump and a reverse rotation water pump. If you want to keep AC I recommend a new or rebuilt pump with new hoses for a 92 Camaro. If not Dorman sells a AC bypass pulley that fits just fine.

The next thing to do is remove the computer sensors, the wiring and computer. Computer is under the pass side dash. Nothing the computer uses is needed to run the car.

You need to buy a new vacuum/mechanical advance distributor. Anything but Accel. MSD is good... Advance Auto has them in stock for 150ish. Also I recommend a Holley 4175 (80555C) It is the direct replacement for the Quadrajet non-emission carb. There is also a 4175 (9895) emission carb.

Ebay has a Holley 80555C rebuilt by Holley for 359.99.

The only emissions you keep is the PCV and Vapor canister. I can tell you how to run those hoses.

Let me know if you want to know more.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

And of course, your brand new shiny thing sitting you want so bad sitting up there on top out in the open where you can ooooh and aaaah over it, won't do you ONE DAMN BIT of good, if your REAL problem is fuel delivery, as it almost always is. You'll end up with your wallet around $600-700 lighter, and the very first time you hammer down on it, it'll do THE EXACT SAME THING it did before.

I suggest repairing the car's ACTUAL DEFECT, and not being distracted by the prospect of playing with shiny things (like chrome-plated carbs) laying off in the weeds beside the path.

1982Z28Modified

With sofakingdoms eminent wisdom whom am I to question him? Oh yeah... I am a master mechanic with 30+ years experience. SFKD suggestion is to shine up a turd. When finished you have a shiny turd. I am not familiar with New Hampshire's emissions requirements. If there are none, it's time to remove that 30 year old crap and let the engine breath. You will get the most bang for your buck replacing the old exhaust with some free flowing headers, eliminating the cat. Take it to a scrap yard, I got $65 for mine. And get rid of the quadrajunk. You can use the stock manifold, but I picked up a ZZ4 and run a Holley 4175. It's a direct replacement for the Q-junk. If you swap in the E-brock you will need an adapter plate. And I don't know how the throttle linkage fits or the TV cable. As for SFKD suggestion of fuel delivery problem. I agree. Fuel pumps go bad. If you can install an inline fuel psi gauge it's a good idea. Or slap a new pump in to remove any doubt.

The quadrajet was once an OK carb. Those days are long gone. GM made millions of them. They are simple and easy to assemble for mass production. If you have money to burn you can send it off to Sean Murphy Induction in California to have it rebuilt for about 600. Or go with your e-brock. Or get a direct bolt on Holley for 360.

Drivability is the main concern for the pre-87 F-bodys. Even with a rebuilt q-junk, a e-brock, or Holley, you still have that shitty exhaust. Summit sells headers by many different vendors for many different prices.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

And after all that brilliant advice, you'll have an EVEN MORE OUTDATED design of carb on there in either a Holley or Edlebrock (Carter), and if you have a fuel delivery problem, the car will STILL fall flat on its face after a few seconds of high fuel demand meaning you will have spent $700 and you'll STILL have the same problem you actually wanted to fix as opposed to arguing about what kind of carb is better.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

The Quadrajet is a competent carburetor. I don't particularly like the electronic version but I've had them rebuilt with the throttle shaft update (Important) and it's worked just fine. One benefit of the Quadrajet is the spreadbore, that is if you can keep your foot out of the throttle. I was going to pick one up to play around with actually.

If you bypass the computer you'll need a stand alone dizzy and that will up the cost along with making it harder to bring it back in line with emissions if you move or your area starts requiring testing. If you're going without AC you can run minimal belts with what you have. Just the alt and PS although the brackets for the PS are a bit much.

Berlinetta00

Arguing aside, the first reply from 1982Z28Modified is about right. Dump the stock intake and carb in favor of an aftermarket, non-egr version, and get some decent headers. The accessory drive can be handled a number of ways, I went with a two v-belt set up as I removed the A/C and it looks clean without going through the process of getting a serpentine set up. You can get the pulleys, brackets and belts for under $200, and less if you can chop and adapt the old brackets.

I would recommend that you get parts that can be reused when you ditch the LG4 for whatever other engine you drop in there, I made the mistake of getting headers that work for the LG4 but are on the small side for a 400 horse 350. Hope this helps,

Ah, last note, the second poster is right on the Accel coil/dist.- it's a POS and a summit or MSD unit will work better.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Worst thing you can do is to hack up the car, spend $700, and (a) NOT FIX THE ACTUAL PROBLEM, (b) ruin the car's value for all time, and (c) STILL HAVE TO FIX THE ACTUAL PROBLEM.

Find the problem and fix it. Don't jump straight to "hack the modern stuff off and go old school" thinking that's going to magically cure everything; it hardly ever does.

Then once YOU'VE FIXED THE ACTUAL PROBLEM, the advice about exhaust is good. The stock stuff absolutely STRANGLES the motor. But, wait until AFTER YOU'VE FIXED THE ACTUAL PROBLEM, which replacing all the big shiny stuff that sits up top out in the open where you can pop the hood and ooooh and aaaaah over it with ancient inferior stuff like Edelbrock carbs, WON'T.

apie2546

I wish I could remove my emissions equipment. Unfortunately where I plan to move it's required if it came with it.

MeanFbirdT/A

Thank you for everyones input and advice everyone. The E4ME is not functioning properly at all. I haven't had the time to diagnose it properly but the secondaries won't even open up at WOT. I'm in doubt of a fuel delivery problem because if the secondaries do actually end up opening the thing doesn't fall on its face at WOT. There is just horrible throttle response. And if it is the fuel pump is bad oh no! 18 dollars for a brand new mechanical and 40 for an in tank pick up. I'm switching to an edelbrock performer intake, 600 cfm that I just rebuilt, and a new hei distributor. I'm going to buy some hedman headers after a couple weeks when I can afford them plus a matching y pipe (my friend welds exhaust for a living) and have a 2 1/2 cat back done/ cat delete. (No emissions laws where I live in Maine) Sofa is being really rude. One I'm not spending "600-700" dollars. More like 300-400. Two, Next year Im going to swap in a built 350. I'm planning to go to an automotive school and turn wrenches for a living. I'm more than capable of all of this I just wanted advice from people that live and breathe these cars and have more experience than I do. I didn't come here for insults. I just want to fix my bogging for the time being. I'm going to do fuel pressure tests tomorrow before and after the mechanical fuel pump. if it needs one I'll change it out, If not I'm pretty sure my problem will be gone after I've tuned the carb and adjusted the timing. Also why would I keep all of the strangling emission equipment on If I'm just going to change the engine soon anyway?

MeanFbirdT/A

Also Z28 modified thank you for actually answering my question. I have a couple of little questions for one. Will the coolant temp sensor and oil pressure gauge still function after computer removal? Whats the best way to delete the EGR piping on the stock manifolds until I can get headers? Can I just plug the small tubes or should I remove all the piping and plug the small holes in the manifolds? Thanks

MeanFbirdT/A

Also what psi should the pick fuel pump and mech fuel pump run so my tests can be accurate tomorrow?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

FWIW, part of the problem with older Quadrajets is that the throttle shaft bore wears out and that introduces additional air that makes it difficult to tune. Here are a couple of links explaining it.

http://rmcavoy.freeshell.org/Q_Jet_bushings.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...-bushings.html

PSI is supposed to be around 6-7lbs IIRC.
Cluster functions shouldn't be affected yet (Ie. temp/oil) as that was later on when the computer sends engine info to the cluster.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

This link includes symptoms to look for: http://www.vw-resource.com/air_inleakage.html

1982Z28Modified

The coolant and oil pressure sensors have nothing to do with the computer. Removing the computer harness, the EGR, and AIR piping make for a much cleaner look. The AIR pipes in the manifold can be blocked off with a 1/4" plug. Use lots of penetrating oil.

Once you remove all the crap the engine runs a lot better. Keep the EVAP hoses connected. They are important. About the PCV... I removed the air breather from the passenger side and installed another PCV. The crankcase does not need fresh air. It needs blow-by gas removed. My oil has never been cleaner. Also all modern V-8's do it this way. At least the Ford's do.

As far as the EGR itself... either get an intake without EGR or buy a block off plate from summit or ebay.

After removing the computer harness you should get what I have... a better running car and "Service Engine" light stuck on.

Recap... Remove AIR pump, CAT, EGR. Keep PCV (double up) and EVAP.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Wow. Just Wow.

I currently own an 84 an 85 and an 87, each with a functioning LG4 induction system. The 84 is stock, the 85 has a LO3 350 with L69 exhaust and AIR deleted (the pipes were rusted through and I just capped them off at the manifolds) and the 87 has a vortec 350 with LT4 hotcam, headers and a T56. Each of my cars averages over 20 mpg on my mixed highway/city 35 mile commute to work. (Each also has functioning Air Conditioning, but that's a different challenge to the posters on this thread.) I'm a firm believer that mileage is one of the best indications of a properly tuned and efficient motor/car combo. The feedback tuning of the ccc-qjet, computer controlled timing and, even, properly functioning EGR all work in concert toward an efficient motor-one that runs cool, has adequate power, good driveability and decent mileage.

If I were to pick up another LG4 with symptoms similar to the OPs, I would spend a little time diagnosing the actual problem (first check for lack of secondaries would be the choke pulloff). I suspect though, unlike myself, most of the posters to this thread have less experience and knowledge of how the ccc-qjet system actually works.

There is certainly a lack of knowledge here as to the benefits of the ccc system.

1982Z28Modified

The CCC q-jet was a half-assed attempt by GM to bring emissions under control. It did not work. Many people I know who owned 3rd gens when they were new spent many a pissed off day at the dealer with a "Check Engine" light that kept on coming on. Some people swear by them. I swear at them. There are no benefits to using the CCC other than if it works and your happy with it, have fun.

naf

iTrader: (7)

You may misunderstand me. I'm not extolling the absolute virtue of the ccc-qjet system, just astonished at the lack of understanding as to it's function and the benefits things like EGR, electronic control of timing, knock retard (85 and up), mixture adjustment, etc. provide. There are times when I would recommend the system be swapped out, especially if the system is totally hacked and unrepairable in a cost effective manner. I would first always try to fix what's there.

I infer that your judgment of the system is based on unquantifiable, third person anecdotal experience?

1982Z28Modified

I understand you perfectly... Even with the big words. I am perfectly aware of how the CCC is supposed to work. I also know that when I was using it... I had pre-ignition. A check engine light, and no performance. I know perfectly well what the EGR is supposed to do... introduce exhaust gas into the engine to limit temperatures from forming Nitric Oxide (NO). Here is the overall point... A well tuned and adjusted engine does not need it, (EGR). I would bet my setup would pass emissions for the year it was made, 1982. Furthermore, you are relying on a computer designed in the 1970's. Similar to the stuff used in the Apollo moon mission.

Let me clarify more. I work for Ford. What I know about the big three is this. They will spend tens of millions of dollars to try and save ONE dollar a car. GM's recent ignition switch recall, the Ford Pinto, Explorer, and so on. They make decisions based on cost. Not quality or functionality. Cost. Cost. Cost.

So when GM tried to meet the emissions rules of the 1980's, they threw together the cheapest thing they had in the engineering pipeline. The CCC. GM made millions of them. They are simple to mass produce. Also note how you can delete the computer and all its sensors, change carb and distributor with no problem. This tells me the CCC system was an add on patch until TBI/TPI came out. And that was a patch until MPFI came out.

If your CCC system works... Good for you. Enjoy it. But if you want to unlock your cars potential... Delete it. And the AIR, CAT and EGR. Install a serpentine system.

And if you live in a state that insists on emissions checks, not much you can do.

naf

iTrader: (7)

The gist of our disagreement is that the ccc-qjet system is inferior to a manual carburetor with mechanical advance ignition, and I'm cool with that. Let's no longer clutter this thread.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have had several vehicles with the CCC Q-Jet system and they all ran well with no check engine light. If the check engine light came on it was usually something simple.

The CCC Q-Jet has MANY benifits. First and foremost being computer controlled timing advance followed by closed loop mixture control.

apie2546

Let's not debate over what qualities it has or doesn't. He's asking for help on removing parts of it. I've been very interested in the topic watching it to learn a little bit lol.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

He can take all the parts he wants off, but if he does not fix the problem it will run the same or worse!

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

There's not really much to learn. Buy the three things below and replace them on your car. If you have an automatic then the things you'll need to know won't be covered in this particular thread. I've posted many times as well as others what needs to be done and why, so searching might help you learn more and in less time while not having to wade through the debate.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-0-4777c
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7501
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8365

These might help:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-2210-1hkr

If you have an auto you'll need to get it modified to run without a computer and add linkage to the 4150 throttle lever for a 700r4. Something like this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-20-95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-20-121

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

This kit works for an automatic and allows you to retain the stock vacuum cruise servo on an edelbrock performer/thunder series carb.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1484

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Interesting. Does that work for a Holley as well?