90iroc5spd

i wanna run this with a hot cam and 1:6 rockers and upgraded vortec heads, anyone try this setup yet, they claim around 350 horse?

And if so ya think this is gonna pass IL emissions?

abcx09t

Look in the Engine Swap section for threads on this engine.

90iroc5spd

didnt really view this as an engine swap, but I'll look there. thanks

D Stroy H8

I am dwelling on that setup myself. Camaro Performance magazine reported about a 40-50 horsepower gain on the 5.7 L98. I am interested b/c it leaves room for further pursuit (camshaft, fuel runners, lotsa porting/polishing) I say its worth it, but then again, I'm aware of somewhat cheaper setups that yield more power. =P

Bort62

It is also not Smog-Legal.

I don't know if thats a concern for you.

The Vortech heads are Great... For a mild No-EGR Carbed Car.

Otherwise You end up spending enough getting them to work with your setup to have bought some "real" heads.

brian89transam

Yeah, I thought they were "THE FINAL ANSWER" when they came out. But from everyone I've talked to, they're really not the way to go. Most people have decided if they're gonna go non-emmissions legal, it's better to go w/ an LT1 intake or Holley Stealthram. You might get a bit more torque with the Scoggin Dickey, but the horsepower would be a lot higher w/ a shorter intake.

90iroc5spd

they are only non emissions because of no egr provisions, since tpi gets egr from the heads, but you can use a corvette style egr setup and get egr from the headers. so they can be emissions legal
anyway egr controls nox and IL doesnt fail for nox
plus it should burn cleaner (less hc) since the combustion chambers swirl better than stock heads (or most aftermarket heads) that will mix the air/fuel better and give you better combustion, that is one reason that they are so good.

im not so worried about emissions because of the heads, its the hot cam that i want to run

2QUIK6

The EGR can be piped in if needed, I think the tube kit is about $60 from SD for it and then you must weld the tube to the header.
If you burn your own proms, you should be able to make the motor burn clean enough to where it will pass without it even if where you live measures NOx.

Bort62

Thats all fine, But dosent help Visual.

poncho@home

All I read lately is guys knocking the Vortec heads. They all say that once you actually get them on the car the price exceeds the value...not true.

I picked up a set for $130 from a local scrap yard. Even $460 for the base with the EGR kit and another $400 for miscellaneaous expenses(springs, or rockers) I am still under $1000.00. Most aftermarket heads with old technology would cost me that much if not more and an aftermarket intake to use the capacity of the heads would ru nme another 200-300 easy. Here I get the latest GM technology, which in all honestly I trust the engineers more from GM than let's say... Edelbrock.

And actually I was reading on GM's site back in 1998 when they announced the Vortec heads that you can drill and tap them for the 12 bolt intakes as well, so that would eliminate the need for the Scoggin' Dickey Intake.

Most people that knock these heads never actually ran them...and beleive that you need big heads and cams to run well...well from previous experiences I can tell you that's not true.

You'd be surpised what a well tuned/matched setup can do.

The vortec heads have a very efficient combustion chamber =

Run leaner/hotter = more power
Run higher compression without fear of detonation = more power.

The key to these heads is to leave them alone...aside from springs and studs do not touch the ports or combustion chamber...they are near perfect orginal.

For all you nay sayers....you should open your minds a little and speak from experience not speculation and rumors.

90iroc5spd

poncho@home,
couldn't aggre with ya more, i think my mind is made up. I just wanted some feedback from some people running them.

Ragtop Man

Like the earlier post said, it's all about what you want it to do.

Because each modification begs another, there really is no magic bullet for a TPI thirdgen. You have to optimize each thing from the MAF to the tailpipe to get the most. This manifold lets you get hooked up with the largest marginal improvement you can make to an SBC with factory parts.

The Vortec head uses NASCAR airflow technology, and gives you more flow than the 'trick' Chevy Racing Bowtie head, in unbreakable, unstrippable iron, plus a little upside improvement potential with pocket porting, LT4 valvesprings and rockers, etc.

The raised port is the @#$t, and the chamber is way better giving better flame travel with less octane, and the iron heads are more thermally efficient anyway (more heat doing work on piston, less in water jacket) It's the best iron head for the money, period.

(You would probably be popping for a baseplate anyway, if you used Iron Eagles, etc, so that cost is a wash, and the aftermarket heads are 2X as much anyway.)

The S-D manifold is NOT the ticket for a 9-second car, but they never really promised that in the first place. What it will let you do is build a solid 350-400 flywheel hp TPI car for a reasonable price.

It's no trick to assume, that with all CARB- E.O. approved goodies, convertor and gears, you are looking at strong mid 13- / high 12-second car, which is enough to keep the Rustangs honest. Add N20, and you can probably knock a second off of that, if you're so inclined.

The more you do ahead and behind the ports -- intake mods, Wells MAF, catback, etc -- the more you uncork this combination. Utimately, you're limited by the TPI runner volume and length. This lets you get the most outta what you got, or could get from SLP/ASM/TPIS etc.

What you could do is start with the 330 hp Vortech long block, clean up the heads, swap out the cam, screw this manifold and headers on then go hunting.

Bort62

All that is fine, except The Vortech heads and SD base are still not smog legal, and have no ED number.

90iroc5spd

screw the smog number, they dont open the hood in IL! all it has to do is pass the sniffer, besides these are factory heads from 96, they will burn cleaner on a stock engine than stock heads (not that they will be on a stock engine)

and i dont want a 9 second car, my car is all pro touring, just need good torque numbers. the long tubes and these high flowing heads will do that for me.
plus ill still be able to keep the ****stangs honest

2QUIK6

I can't figure out why everyone keeps saying they are not smog legal?? If you put the external EGR tube on coming off the header, whats the problem?
It would have every piece of pollution equip that any other car would have at that point, and if it passes the sniffer, who cares what it looks like.
Most people doing the inspections are clueless anyway around here, when getting my '79 TA smogged, the guy asked if it was front wheel drive before pulling it on the tread mill!

90iroc5spd

they arent legal , becaus they dont have legal emissions numbers?
i dont see why they arent legal though because the are stock heads, and by law it is legal to swap an engine from a newer car than the one it is going in. so by that law they are legal

2QUIK6

But if it passes the sniffer, how is anyone going to know what type of heads they are or what their emmission # is? ...whatever an emissions # is in the first place... are you talking about something like the Cali emission cert# for certain parts?

90iroc5spd

exactly, who cares

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I have a '92 RS, I put in a "350" with LO 5 heads and tpi on it and had to go to a test only here in Calif.

The guy ran the test, looked at it kinda strange then walked over to me and said, well it passed.

I said that's good, he said you changed the motor didn't you?

I said well, I changed the manifold, he said to me "oh no, that's a 5.7 Corvette motor".... I said really, but it passed right?

To which he replied, oh yeah.

So....... in goes my Vortec this weekend (with the SDPC manifold).

Don>>>

P.S. Guess where I will go for my smog test next time?

Guest

Why does the EO number matter? Well, in Cali it does. Only way you'd get around it is if you know someone or you're lucky like Don. They dont care that things are all hooked up and functioning around here, it has to be stock. If its not, off to the referee you go. Sometimes even EO'd parts get questioned. If you run the Vortec heads and SD base and pipe the EGR from the RH manifold, you are NOT legal in California. Period. There is no EO number, and hence it is not legal. Theres no questions, no issues, nothing. Only way you can get it smogged is if someone looks the other way.

2QUIK6

Thanks for the info madmax, had a feeling it was something with CA emissions. They are pretty strict on things here, but if it passes on the tread mill sniffer at 30 and 15 mph at various loads, then it passes no matter what it looks like and the vac/carbon canister is working.
All that and they only have 91 oct gas in Cali, I couldn't live there

IROC57TPI

Heres my combo going together this winter:

1990 L98 shortblock out of 91 Vette

Vortec heads with the spring pockets machined for larger springs.

ZZ3 cam

S-D baseplate

AS&M runners

LT1 injectors 24#

ported plenum

52MM TB

1 5/8 to 1 3/4 headers


My idea is to keep it stock looking when I open the hood. It should go 12's easy and look stock doing it
custom 3" y-pipe

4" stainless exhaust

2500RPM stall converter

custom PROM

u r sofa king we tah did

a 1990 shortblock from a 91 corvette huh?

abcx09t

Maybe if everyone of you in California votes for Democratic Senators, they can vote in a law that you can only swap in an engine that is 4 cylinders and makes no more than 150 hp. Didn't you see that the California laws (thanks to your Gov.) are leading the pack in lower emissions and higher mileage per gallon. Get rid of those Democrates and vote Republican. Then you won't need to worry about getting lucky at the emissions tests.

funstick

to be honest i try to stay emisions legal. i dont care about what parts are in there however. i will make evrey attempt to meet the standards and on more than one occasion i have not only beten the standards but smashed them. with careful tunning ( which should be done anyway) it should be no problem. lets be honest are you gonna spend 2k or more and then let the thing run so rich that its washes the rings out??? i dont think so. screw cali i doubt if any of the people at the staions would be able to even see the differnce between the s-d base and vortec heads over stock. just make sure it sniffs clean and doesnt sound to rowdy. that will keep them from bothering you. i live in maryland and we have the same IM240 test cali does. and its pita to hotrod a later model engine. you just have to make sure that combustion efficency is the formost of you prioritys. and with improved combustion you will make more power. also specing a cam with a wide LDA will help keep it clean as well. and egr wont hurt a thing if you tune it right. in fact with proper egr tunning you can improve yur gas mileage. but really you can have your cake and eat it to. it just takes a bit more effort and thats about it.

Ragtop Man

Well, the Vortecs are king for combustion efficiency.

The basic chamber, prior to the Vortec, was not terribly far removed from the original SBC. Not bad, but behind the times.

GM had the guy in charge of Earnhardt's -- oops, Chevy Race Shop's -- cylinder head program head up (NPI) the L31 development. It might be the one true example of racing improving the breed.

The burn is faster, and more evenly distributed across the chamber. Pressure rise is better and less octane sensistive. Not only did they get over 50 horsepower from the same combination, they got it with lower emissions and better driveabliity.

It sounds like a commercial, but on a production-based engine, you're getting a lot of bang for the buck at the trade price for a pair.

If you make it look clean and factory, and bury it under all the stock intake plenum and emissions hardware, 98 out of 100 inspectors will never be the wiser, and those two will probably take a powder if you don't have the most cop-baiting exhaust system on it.

The combo sounds great, keep posting as it comes together.

chikn305

iTrader: (2)

I was at the local 1/8 mi track last night and there was a kid there with an 88 l98 camaro with the sdpc setup. the car had the modified heads , lt4 hot cam, 1.6 rr, slp runners, 52mm bbk tb, edelbrock 1 5/8" headers, custom prom, afpr, and an msd. The car ran cosistent 8.5 i don't know the mph because one of those muskrats ran over the lights. It also pulled 1.79 60ft. The kid also said that the car has ran a 8.37 w/1.67 60ft. The car is a auto with 2400 stall and 3.23 9bolt he was also running e/t streets

91TPI5.7

Well, after i pay off my paint job, these are my plans for the rest of the car. Rebuld the motors bottom end with some forged stuff, Vortec heads, sd intake, slp ported siamesed runners, ported plenum, LPE 211/219 cam w/ 1.6 rr's, and a 52 mm tb. This will flow through slp 1-3/4 headers ,random tech duel cats, and full 3" spintech system. Stock rear rebuilt with slp posi, and a Vig. 240 tall converter. Not a bad combo and for around 4500 its a good 350-400 hp. After a few years and some miles, maybe a paxton and a 12 bolt (wishful thinking)

IROC57TPI

I almost forgot to mention turbos after a few years as I have access to a custom header builder

tpirocz

im thinking of doing the vortec swap on my l98 in the summer. how reliable is it? whats the most milage someone here has on on? and how well will a motor with 117k miles stand up to it. thanks yall.

pjw67

I only have a few thousand miles on my tpi vortec swap (by far not the most miles out of anyone). I'm 100% satisfied with it so far. I had an 89 formula 305 - 5 speed. I rebuilt an L98 and threw some out of the box vortecs on with the scoggin dickey intake. I used the stock lt4 cam with 1.5 rockers just so I wouldn’t have to pin the studs and put new springs in the heads. I ran a 350 auto chip with some 22lbs injectors and no egr or smog crap. I never get codes and the thing is a torque monster! I run around50psi fuel pressure. I would recommend this swap to anyone looking for reliable street power. In the future I may upgrade to the lt4hotcam and port the top end so it can breathe a little better above 4800rpms. But again, so far I have absolutely no complaints.

poncho@home

have you taken the car to the track to see what it runs...i'd be real interested in seeing some real world results