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Location: from wisconsin in ohio for automotive school
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Car: 1991 camaro
Engine: built 350
Transmission: super t10 4 speed
Axle/Gears: 4.10
t10/muncie swap
T10/muncie swaps are quite easy to do on these cars despite what people say I am in the process of doing on my self right if you purchase the lakewood safty bell hosuing it has bolt holes for a 17 degree angle and strait up and will allow you to use you stock pedals and hydraulics and pivot arm for the throw out bearing all you have to do is install the transmission strait up the transmssion mount is farther forward than the t5 one so you will either have to fabricate or buy a swap one spohn sells them if you are using a t10 it a muncie that is not out of a 82 camaro it will not have a torque arm mount but spohn also sells a swap cross member that has a cross member mounted adjustible torque arm stock drive shaft length should be the same but on the t10 you will have to switch the turbo 400 dive shaft yoke I will be fabricating up my own cross member and torque arm mount so ill try and get some pics up here of the hole set up also muncies use less teeth on there input shaft so your t5 clutch won't work the flywheel will but the super t10 came in a fine spline same as the t5 so you would be able to reuse your clutch you will most likely have to open up your shifter hole more to the drivers side seeing as how its an external shifter I have not slide the trans in yet to see where it comes up in the center console but ill update this as I go along feel free to ask any questions I plan on draging my car that's why I'm installing a 4 speed and I just think its kinda cool how many people convert there third gen to a 4 speed one of the coolest things about this swap though is that I will be installing a hurst vertigate ram rod shifter
Location: from wisconsin in ohio for automotive school
Posts: 7
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Car: 1991 camaro
Engine: built 350
Transmission: super t10 4 speed
Axle/Gears: 4.10
Re: t10/muncie swap
If you buy the lake wood safty bell housing for this car should be part number 15020 summit has probly the cheapest price on it around $450 you will be able to use stock camaro pedals and hydrolics same ones that came on the t5 the bell hosuing has the option of bolting up a t5 at the 17 degree slant or the t10 or muncie strait up it has multiple bolt holes and bolts right to your block with no fabrication
Location: from wisconsin in ohio for automotive school
Posts: 7
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Car: 1991 camaro
Engine: built 350
Transmission: super t10 4 speed
Axle/Gears: 4.10
Re: t10/muncie swap
Started bolting the hydraulics up last night and I realised that the stock throw out bearing fork will not work its pretty much strait and hits the bell hosuing so you will need to buy the lake wood one with an angle on it
Started bolting the hydraulics up last night and I realised that the stock throw out bearing fork will not work its pretty much strait and hits the bell hosuing so you will need to buy the lake wood one with an angle on it
pretty sure the lakewood one will not work. You may need an adjustable pivot ball though.
What lakewood fork are you planning on trying? Last time I looked they offered nothing specific to.a 3rd gen. I have a earlier camaro fork I bought with my lakewood bell and it would not work. Its been a few years, I forget why
Location: from wisconsin in ohio for automotive school
Posts: 7
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Car: 1991 camaro
Engine: built 350
Transmission: super t10 4 speed
Axle/Gears: 4.10
Re: t10/muncie swap
Part number is 15500 if you go on summit and look at the 15020 lake wood bell housing for our style cars its under the suggested parts for it so I figured it would work I'm going to call to lake wood tomorrow and see if they have any thing that will
Location: from wisconsin in ohio for automotive school
Posts: 7
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Car: 1991 camaro
Engine: built 350
Transmission: super t10 4 speed
Axle/Gears: 4.10
Re: t10/muncie swap
like i stated if you buy the lakewood safety bellhousings and a fine spline input shaft on the 4 speed everything will bolt up fine you just need the adjustable pivot ball to go with the bellhousing and that will work fine and a crossmember mounted torque arm seeing how the 4 speed doesn't have a mount on the trans for it and a custom drive shaft length its really not hard to install untill you get to the shifter i never really completed my shifter got it hooked up and working a couple of times to drive but never got it to work exactly right a guy i talked to used a universal 4 speed shifter and install kit from summit and said his worked fine but unless you wanna fabricated a lot up to do this to make it cheaper its probably not worth it the lakewood bellhousing is 450 the spohn cross member and torque arm will run you another 600 then you need a trans which will be at least 500 then a shifter at least 150 then a custom drive shaft which again at least 300 so unless you have a bunch of 4 speed parts laying around and are good at fabrication so the grand total is around 2 grand for which you can probably get a hole t56 swap done on your car for and have 2 extra high way gears i mean you can do it but i dont think its worth it
Funny how people WHO HAVEN'T ACTUALLY DONE stuff like this come on and tell us all about how easy it WILL BE when they're GONNA do it; then when they ACTUALLY DO IT, turns out what they THOUGHT wasn't very accurate at all.
And I do notice that you have the testicular fortitude to admit that you never really did get it working; that takes some personal honesty. Thanks for telling the truth about that.
You're exactly right about the lesson you are learning, which is, that the T-56 is AHELLUVALOT better of a way to go in these cars. It's virtually identical in its ratios to a T-10 or Muncie and is as strong as or stronger than either, but then adds 2 OD gears on top of that. AND IT ACTUALLY FITS THE CAR!!! What's not to like about THAT?
Just finished my 4 speed swap. Converted to hydraulic setup using a Howe throwout bearing. Pretty easy to setup. Used a super t10 and bellhousing from a late 70's camaro. Using a spohn transmission crossmember/torque arm. The driveshaft came from a 82' camaro with a 350 trans. Shifter is a hurst part #3917960. Only issue I had/have is that the shifter stick is too short for the console. The stick could be 3-5" longer. Has anyone corrected this issue with a different stick? Maybe part number #5387991?
Pedals were from a T5 car and the master was bought new at auto store meant for a T5 car also. Used russell part #641001 clutch fittings with master. Was going to use Ram clutch master (Ram-510) but is rather expensive. Used howe remote bleeder lines for plumbing.
Just finished my 4 speed swap. Converted to hydraulic setup using a Howe throwout bearing. Pretty easy to setup. Used a super t10 and bellhousing from a late 70's camaro. Using a spohn transmission crossmember/torque arm. The driveshaft came from a 82' camaro with a 350 trans. Shifter is a hurst part #3917960. Only issue I had/have is that the shifter stick is too short for the console. The stick could be 3-5" longer. Has anyone corrected this issue with a different stick? Maybe part number #5387991?
Any chance you could post some pictures of your set up? I have a bunch of muncie parts laying around that I would like to put into my car. Interested to see where the shifter is located in the trans tunnel and counsel.
Ignoring the clutch linkage issue, or torque arm issue for folks that have hydraulic TOB and alternate torque arm setup, is there any issues sing a 'straight up' bell housing Super T-10 and a off the shelf shifter?
I have a 80-82 corvette shifter, which mounts a little farther back and higher up. I wonder if it would cure the problem of needing a longer shifter stick?
A lot of the guys running T-10's in fbodies around here are doing circle track and don't have center consoles.
The hydraulic TOB would fix the issue that a "straight up" BH has in these cars; namely, requiring the "dog leg" fork, to get the linkage end of it down below the floor pan. That's a trypical crappy 70s "solution" to a problem that otherwise would have required innovation (which is to say, at the time, "inventing" a hydraulic TOB)
Other than that, I don't see where there would be any problem. If you weren't too concerned about the shifter exactly duplicating the stock one, should work fine.
The hydraulic TOB would fix the issue that a "straight up" BH has in these cars; namely, requiring the "dog leg" fork, to get the linkage end of it down below the floor pan. That's a trypical crappy 70s "solution" to a problem that otherwise would have required innovation (which is to say, at the time, "inventing" a hydraulic TOB)
Other than that, I don't see where there would be any problem. If you weren't too concerned about the shifter exactly duplicating the stock one, should work fine.
I'll have to mock one up on the bench next to a T5 I have to get an idea of where the shifter will end up. I googled some photos of how the 82-83 cars did the T10 and I don't quite get the engineering. It uses a "straight up" bell housing but a rotated clutch fork, fine, but then why the goofy shifter that mounts on the right side? Was that to allow room for a torque arm mount?
And if GM engineered a bell housing with the rotated clutch fork opening but straight up pattern for the transmission, why did they rotate the transmission pattern for the T5? A TKO which is larger fits just fine "straight up" so why would they have rotated the whole transmission?
I'll have to mock one up on the bench next to a T5 I have to get an idea of where the shifter will end up. I googled some photos of how the 82-83 cars did the T10 and I don't quite get the engineering. It uses a "straight up" bell housing but a rotated clutch fork, fine, but then why the goofy shifter that mounts on the right side? Was that to allow room for a torque arm mount?
And if GM engineered a bell housing with the rotated clutch fork opening but straight up pattern for the transmission, why did they rotate the transmission pattern for the T5? A TKO which is larger fits just fine "straight up" so why would they have rotated the whole transmission?
needing a correct bellhousing/shifter linkage setup from a 4 speed car? I’ve collected a couple sets over the years.
needing a correct bellhousing/shifter linkage setup from a 4 speed car? I’ve collected a couple sets over the years.
The firebird has a LS engine and a lakewood SFI bell housing. If I do use the T10 I'm not sure which shifter I'm going to use. I haven't really mocked anything up yet so I'm not sure where the thirdgen style T10 shifter ends up vs a typical T10 shifter.
05-23-2012, 03:08 PM
