Azrael91966669

has any one made or found a plenum that dosnt need to be removed to take the valve covers off ie
really i like the way most of the fwd plenums look and really like the 4th gen 3.4 plenum why cant we use them ?


i was reading a book on Camaro proformance and it talks about replaceing the heads

our stock heads are 1.60 intake and 1.30 exhaust

there is high flow iron heads part # 14054884
they are machined for 1.72" intake 1.42" exhaust

and canted valve aluminum heads part #10048649
with 1.72 intake and 1.42 exhaust
it says they wont work on 86 and earlier v6s but will work on 87+ 2.8s and 3.1

these heads and and a better cam should make some good power as it bumps the compression ratio up

our stock cam is part number 14031378
.394"intake and .410"exhaust lift with 196 degree intake and 202 degree exhaust duration @ (.050"lift) lobe seperation of 109 degrees

really im just trying to give us some other options with parts that should be found in most junkyards

id assume if we used the alloy heads we at that point would have even less weight and better flow
then a maybe a better flowing plenum

we chould at lest gain 10 hp along with a smaller crank pully maybe a smaller smog pully for us that cant have that removed

i mean come on the most modern 3.1s make 170hp and 190 torque (2003 3100)

then from there add headers and catback
then we should be around the modern #s

3.1 / 140hp 180 chould really be that hard to add 30 hp and 10 lbs of torque

or even think of doing all these mods with a 3.4
ohv V6 3.4 160hp 200 torque the modern 3400s make 3.4 / 205 180 205

id like to think that if we could make that much power with out spending 3000 on a supercharger or turbo system

at most i could want is 200/200 really i drove a 3800 camaro and thats what i want from my car can we make that power with our engines or close to it with out spending loads of money ?

Doward

Not yet. I'm working on that, LOL. The 4th gen intake hits the distributor (3.4's are DIS)

The carb'd motors have the small valves.

These are the MPFI heads ('85-mid '95) Easily found.

These are the FWD heads. Won't work without new pistons/custom intake. They are 26cc combustion chambers vs our 50 cc iron head chambers

to like 12:1 compression... LOL

I like the melling MTC-5 cam kit you can order via Autozone. It is the EXACT replica of the ARI Phase 2 cam - 204/214º @ .050", .422/.444" lift, and 112 LSA. Very nice cam for an otherwise stock vehicle

200/200? Get a 3.4L, port/polish the intake and heads, blueprint the motor, headers + catback, with a cam around 210/220º with .450" lift - 1.6 roller rockers, roller timing chain (to reduce friction losses in the motor).

Xophertony

i followed most of this but i have a couple of questions.

what does "bluprinting the motor" do?
what do "roller rockers" and "roller timing chains" do? and how do they do it?

i hear the term "roller rockers" all the time, i believe somone told me once before but i can't remember. thanks guys.

Azrael91966669

thanks doward thats all the info i was looking for
my main reason for posting was because as i said in my last topic

they think the cam is broke and not the chain
and they have to remove the tranny if it is and pull it from the rear

so i was thinking about going 3.4 i could get one from any of my local junkyards for about 100 they sell tpi 350s for 250 lol

its my lack of a truck and garage that stops me from getting one atm

thanks also for letting me know about the 4th gen intake
i figured it was something like that but i couldnt find anyone giveing the reason with all of my searchs

the other reason im trying to do this cheap is im building up 2 v6 cars not just one
both are 3.1s

my main complant for the valve covers is cause im used to being able to just take them off to look for problems

id hate to rip apart the full top half of the engine just to check on things and what not ill assume the 3.4 has the same problem "just better looking valve covers " lol

so i already have the ho v6 heads then
well i guess i cant blame them then lol

yes what dose blueprinting do
and i also dont know the differance with "roller parts"

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

they wouldnt have to pull the cam from the rear, but there is a seal on the back side of the engine that may be leaking. i dont know that its even possible to pull the cam from the rear.

AM91Camaro_RS

you still have to tear into the front of the motor to get the timing gear off of the cam so i don't know why they'd want to pull the tranny and pull the can out the back!?!? blueprinting an engine mainly just means going through everything and setting it to specifications (all bearing tolerances, ring gaps, ...). roller parts reduce friction and allow the engine to rev quicker/free-er.

Doward

I'd like to point out.. the FIREWALL is in the way of their little plan.

Pull it from the front - if they are just being lazy and not wanting to pull the freakin' radiator, beat them over the head with a small pair of socks, filled with pennies!!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking that if the cam is broken you would be better off pulling the engine out. Whaaaat you ask??

One timing chain already broke, now another or the cam did. Something is binding up. These items don't just break. It is a good possibility the cam is not getting along with the cam bearings and that is where the problem is. If so, the engine needs to come out.

RBob.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

actually, if you pull the trans, and let the back of the engine sag at full whatever, you can pull the cam out that way.

However, I dont see why they would want/need to, as you have to pull the intake to get lifters n such out, you can slide the back half of the cam out by sticking your fingers down through the vally.

I agree with rbob if the cam broke, pull the engine. Who knows where metal fragments went, when it snapped. But then also, why did it snap? As I've not heard of a cam snapping before, EVER.

Doward

I have, but it involved some high-speed motivation from the pistons (OHC)

Pull the intake, first, VERIFY the cam is screwed.

Azrael91966669

they are thinking it snapped half way inside the block to the point where yes they need to pull half out the front or half out rear


they just giveing me worst case bs now it seems cause drove by there and they havent even touched it yet

in a way im thinking they didnt torq the sprocket bolts to spec
this shop has been a pain in my @ss
they have done this job 2 times the always seem to screw something up last time i was shooting coolent out of the front cover so they had to fix that "they didnt put the correct gasket sealent on it and forgot to Torque the bolts ya they where hand tight


they said "once they really take a look at it" we will know more


i almost want to strangle them
i was hopeing that i wouldnt have had to take it back to them but i wasnt about to go pay some other shop to do the same job

but in a way i may just give up on them and "go buy some tools"

and do it myself

AM91Camaro_RS

that's your best bet, right there!

Xophertony

i would ask for my money back so i could take it to a real shop. they will refuse of course, but if you have the monitary resorces, i might pay a lawyer to right up a letter (real official looking and noterised) that states an intent to take them to court if they do not refund your money, under the grounds that a "do over" on the job is no good (since they have twice over proven their incopitance). then you could youse that money to buy tools or put toward work at a reputable shop. these sucky fly by night operations hold on to money pretty well once they screwed you out of it, but laweyers are proffessional screwers, might just scare them into submission. of course if they call your bluff and get their own lawyer i would just give up... the cost of taking them to court for real would greatly exceed your engine work. (if they point out that fact however state that it makes no difference, its the "principal" of the matter that counts)

man i wish i would have been this smart when i got my last car painted , that guy screwed us good.... but now i know, and knowing is half the battle.

Azrael91966669

if i had the money for a lawyer id would have just done the job my self lol
currently im in between jobs and haveing one car in the shop
my girlfriend with her car all the time and the iroc in "storage"
really its 50 miles away and i cant get to it

so really thats why ive been posting on here more then normal and mad about prices and what not just haveing my own hard times

and also why im even more so irritated with everything
when i needed the car the most to aid in looking for a job it dies
and will be down for min a week or 2

really i could only hope that they messed up because at the moment i dont have the funds to fix the car


"never quit your job just because you moved 50 miles from it to live with your girlfreind "

because now im in a new town and dont know my way around and jobless at lest my girlfreind works for summit racing so hence why i asked about cams she can get the uber cheap

KED85

Accept that you have "lost money at the shop for the work done".
I did not say
Don't fight to get the money back.
If the engine is dead, so be it.
Dump it & yes replace it with a good running long block 3.4
Lack of space?
Yes, I know the feeling
Moving to be by "ya heart" & loosing ground, done that too. Try cross country...
What ya do?
Let shop figure it out. You can figure lots of wrong things out without disassembly. You see evidence when it's in your hands....
Since ya jobless, I'd suggest ya go the shop when they ready to work on your car.
Are you paying storage for the car?
Plan B is where ya gonna put the car after it's returned to you, lifeless.
Plan C is to get the running car in your possession.
50 miles away, hell I can walk that far....didn't say I would tho....
Sorry to hear of the bummer upon ya but it's not too bad
Frustrating.....yep.

Azrael91966669

well they took it apart
the chain broke apart so that was fully covered


they said the part was defective as it never should have broke with only 8000 miles

in the mean time im gonna start building up my tool collection again "longstory"

KED85

Be there when the work is being done.
"Chains" don't break.....
Ever held one in your hand?
Those things mighty strong, no matter what name on the box......

Doward

MAKE SURE THEY REPLACE THE TENSIONER.

KED85

Be there when the FRONT TIMING COVER IS REMOVED SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT A BROKEN TENSIONER DOES TO THE CHAIN, ALSO!

Azrael91966669

by the time i called they had already had the job complete

the old chain broke one of the links "must be all that torque" lol


Mah ha ha my v6 makes so much power i snap timing chain like they are made of string

the tensioner come with the set

all is well now for now

KED85

Have them show you the old parts
That always get a good laughing response!
But do so.
Make sure tensioner was replaced this time cause no timing chain set comes with the tensioner.
It is a separate purchase part.
Yeah all that torque.
Must have been due to entering the LA Freeway system during rush hour or should I say "Resting in Motion" hour.