88TPI406GTA

I already purchased the kit...and due to my desire in the future for some 17" rims...I have a question.

How much of this kit will work with the Z06 brake upgrade?

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=216077

I would assume that the modded spindle and hub will work, right? In that case I would need the Z06 calipers, carriers, abutments, bolts and rotors...just the bolt on stuff...

What do you think Ed?

3.8TransAM

I hae emailed and Pm'ed ebmiller... no contact as of yet. wa sloking for inof from him on the swap... if anyone knows him please have him drop me a line
Thanks
Jeremy

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

He's out of town for the holidays,won't be back until after the 1st.

Dewey316

you may need new brake hoses, depending on what fitting the Z06 calipers use. also standard C5 brakes are the same as Z06, just a diffrent color caliper. you might be able to save some coin there. you will also need the caliper mounting bracket, i don't think they have the exact same mounting deminsions.

88TPI406GTA

I thought that I had read that the Z06 brakes were bigger/better than standard C5 brakes...I may be wrong...Is the rotor thicker?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I'm back...

88TPI: Only the spindles and the hubs. The caliper mounting brackets are different. You are correct in your assumptions. Anyone wanting to go up to 17"s should go straight for the C5 kit, unless you don't want the calipers to read "CORVETTE" then go for the LS1s. Also, the C5 and LS1 rotors are the same size and thickness (12" x 1.25"), but they differ a bit in offset. The C5 calipers have stiffening ribs that force you to go with 17" wheels. The LS1 calipers don't have the same design ribs so they fit under 16"s.


ALL: The LS1 and C5/Z06 calipers use the SAME banjo bolt as the C4 and 1LE calipers so that's convenient.


Feel free to e-mail me with any and all questions on the C4s. Mike (Mongoose) and I will be installing a C4 kit on his T/A real soon, then he can add his commments.


Ed

88TPI406GTA

Ed...that is exactly what I wanted to hear...

This justifies my purchasing your kit...as I don't yet want to switch to 17", but rather keep my GTA wheels...

When I decide to go to larger rims though, then I am set as swapping to LS1/Z06 brakes will involve only simple bolt-on parts...

Thanks!

3.8TransAM

SO we can use your spindles and caliper brackets gets us dual piston pbr 12 inch rotor setup.....

Hmmmmmmmmmm
Curiosity here, actually the one thing really eating at me, is the rotor thickness at .81 inch is it just beggin for warpage first time u hammer them to death?

My Formie and GTA have stock 10.5ers frt and pbr rear(both 91) and my TTA has 1LE upfront with the PBR rear(obviously lol) ... All have thicker rotors by a fairly decent amount......

Anyone have any warpage probs yet.... my cars get driven , alot(cept the TTA) and when in work mode they see 60-70 miles a day. Anyone here who has driven 80/94 in chicago can attest to the roadrace that it is :-)

Warpage problems anyone ro am i just worrying too much.....
What is the next step up in thicker rotors, just stepping up to the LS1 frt brakes? (GTA wheel fitment resolved there?)
thanks
Jeremy

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

The thickness issue has been mentioned before, but I don't see a problem. If you're racing the thing or just hammering the brakes all the time, obviously go bigger. The Baer 12" Sport rotors are only 12" x 1.10" rotors (Thunder Racing site listing), so that's only (1.10-.81"=0.29") ~ .3" bigger, so it's .15" thicker on each side, which is only a hair bigger than 1/8" (.125"). Not that much, but they are bigger. What's interesting to me is that the C4 front rotors are the exact same thickness, .81". If that's good enough to stop a Vette, it should stop our cars with no problems.


Dewey races his C4 equipped car and has had no fade problems.

Ed

3.8TransAM

thats the conclusion i came down to as well :-)

Found the answer after searching awhile..............think if i do one more search for brakes im gonna hurl lol endless sorting to get one answer lol but yes i did find where the frt and rear c4 were the same thickness..... And yes, if they were stoppping vettes pretty good they should work for us short of track runs like road racing :-)

EB
thanks for being so nice to deal with, much appreciated

Later
Jeremy

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

Well, Ed and I did the install of his C4 kit yesterday and all I can say is WOW! The pictures don't do this thing justice. Seeing it in person I was extremely impressed with the size and quality of all the components. The pedal is nice and hard and the stock Formula wheels fit fine. The rotor hat thickness pushes them out just far enough to make the tires come even with the fender edge and with my car being lowered looks killer. I haven't driven it yet as I'm waiting to get it aligned but from what I can tell there wasn't any change in alignment. Even put on a set of Earl's SS lines to finish it off. As soon as I can drive this thing I'll let you know the results. Many thanks again Ed,worth every penny.

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

Results after a short trip to the alignment shop: I LOVE THESE BRAKES!!!!

lock

Watch out for the whip-lash!

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

I may have to get race harnesses to keep me in the seat.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Here's some pics. Mike's got one of THE nicest cars I've ever seen...PERFECT '88 C4 Vette seats in that thing:

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Close up:

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

And the Formy wheels fit great:

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Update: The GTA crosslace wheels will fit fine, sorry it's so bright.

Ed

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Plenty of side clearance:

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Another:

Roads88

But will the black caps fit over the studs?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Yes, no problem.

Ed

robertg

iTrader: (2)

wow..... i absolutely cannot wait until i'm able to install my parts that i collected.

ed, i need to get in contact with you about those brackets.... i don't have the time right now to make them. i'll have to do that sometime soon.

i'm probably going to have the hubs turned at one of our napa machine shops.

abcx09t

Help requested.

I am installing the rear PBR brakes, 12 inch on a 1987 IROC that has 9-bolt and rear disc previously.

I am stuck. I need some details on the driver side rear hard line from the axle "T" brake line to the caliper connection.

I see also I need a shorter flex line on the passenger side to the caliper from the bracket at the LCA bracket. What is the part number for the flex line used on the passenger side or what is the length so I can have one made. The psg side flex line I have is too long with the old caliper mounted on the forward side of the disc.

Mostly, I need some pictures for the driver side to see how the lines are routed. Also, the Earls bleeder is too close to the axle area where the spring mounts so did IROCTPIS use the stock bleeder?

Thanks for the support.

Scott

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I take it that you're trying to reuse the disc lines from the old style brakes? If so, they will run differently than the lines for the PBR disc rears, giving you longer lines and interference issues that you describe. On PBR rears, he lines go from the "T" to the back side of the axle shafts

For sme pretty good pics of the lines and such, look here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...highlight=disc

I can't picture the problem you're having with the bleeder, I can't see how it can be that close .

Ed

abcx09t

Ed:
Thanks, this thread is a great help. Looks like I need two flex lines to go to the calipers on the rear. The flex line I have for the psg side rear is too long, but I am going to try it on the driver side. The original hard line on the rear goes to the bracket already so I just need a shorter (25% shorter) flex line on psg side. Locally, Bob's braided lines may help me out quicker than order on-line. Later I will send a photo of the bleeder interference.

Questions: Will the Earls flex lines 1989-92 w/perf. pkg., 4 whl disc give me a flex line for both sides? And is this modified driver side routing similar to the original routing for this brake line system? Finally, do I need the springs for the e-brake system at the caliper. I see them in JamesC's photos, but don't have them with my parts.

Scott

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Yes, this set will give you 3 rear lines: the center flex line with the T and both side's outer lines;

I think if you swapped sides it may work but I am unsure if the fitting style on the end of the line is the same the one the disc flex line uses, I don't have a set of older disc lines to look at. I think others on the site have made them work;

No you don't need that spring..the caliper has it's own built in return spring on the e-brake lever..you should have it on the calipers.

Ed

abcx09t

Well, everything is installed. 13 inch brakes up front, 12 inch brakes in the rear, e-brake cables, new master cylinder and proportioning valve.

The e-brake springs I asked about were on the cable. I just didn't notice them. Still need to adjust the e-brake slack.

The line I had made at Bob's Braided Lines in Cincinnati for the psg side fit both sides, so the guy that made my psg side easily and quickly made the dvr side for $25. I made my own bracket to hold the hard line to flex line interface. It is just a flat bracket mounted to the old LCA bolt since I have the LCA relocation brkt.

The bleeder fitting is very close to the panhard rod brackets on the driver side end. Lots of clearance on the psg side.

The seal retainer plate is actually what hold the seal in place, so you install the axle/bearing/seal/brackets assy with a little grease on the seal outside diameter and then push it into the axle housing with your thumb. Then when you torque the seal retainer plate with the caliper bracket to the axle housing you are also pushing the seal into the housing. So far I have not seen a leak. The seal retainer plate will look a little "bowed" between the bolts, but that is normal and the condition of the plate when I disassembled the psgr side too.

Nate86

Ed,

I've been meaning to ask you about a brake upgrade for my '85 T/A, but just haven't got around to it until now. Since everyone says you are the "brake guru" on the boards, I figured what better person to ask for recommendations on a brake upgrade.

Anyway, my braking system is completely stock down to the old rubber hoses. It's a front disc/rear drum (aluminum drums, if it makes any difference) system. The C4 brakes that (I presume) you are selling looks like a good upgrade for me since I do want to keep the stock 15" crosslace wheels.

I am kind of lost on a few things though. First, would I be required to find a new rear with disc brakes? I'm assuming disc brakes are superior to drums since no one seems to ever ask about drum brakes around here. Also, what is the deal with the proportioning valve? I always see it get mentioned in brake threads, but I haven't seemed to figure out what it does or what problems it has.

Any recommendations/suggestions/answers would be great. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I'm no guru by any means, I'm sure there are some guys on here that know a lot more than I do, I just happen to mess with the different setups for S&Gs.

Feel free to send me an e-mail and we can talk more but for your 15"s I'd go with the 12" C4s up front and the 12" PBRs out back. You can convert your current rear if you'd like to keep your gears but if you'd like to swap to a different ratio, a swap to a disc rear might be just as easy for you. Conversions aren't that hard to do if you have all the parts.

The prop valve controls pressure to the calipers and different valves give different pressure obviously, and I recommend the correct valve for whatever setup you will have. For the setup I recommended for you, the 1LE prop will do the trick. Other guys swear by an adjustable valve but I haven't dealt with them at all so I'm no help here. My e-mail is in my profile or at the link.

Ed

Nate86

Thanks Ed. I'll hit you up on an email once I get some free time.

86irocterror

ed whats up. i seen earlier in this that someone said the c5 zo6 brakes the only difference is the red powder coat. but when you get the calipers from gm they come with the better pads to, the zo6 had better pads over the reg vette. im just asking cause thats what i thought i could be wrong. i have the c5/zo6 with slotted and drilled rotors on the front with the hawk hps pads on my iroc. i have to say the only thing better then a 3rd gen f body is a vette so why not have some vette parts on our toys.......lol only real way to improve our already perfect cars!

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hmmm...the calipers won't come with pads from GM, you buy them separately. With C5s, the only caliper difference is the coating or lack thereof.

HTH..

Ed

TheMysticWizard

iTrader: (1)

Maybe he went on vacation again, but I can't get in contact with him either...
I'm just looking for hubs and caliper carriers for a LS1 brake swap.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I'm here, just a bit busy and way behind in PM response. I have 17 unread right now, I'll get back to you as soon as I can..thanks!

Ed

FIRECHICKEN

iTrader: (3)

Wow Ed, your kits look great. It also sounds like you are very attentive to the needs of your customers. I wish I would have bought the parts for the C5 swap from you instead of TPI383. He really screwed me over. What a jerk. Now I have to have another set or hubs made cause he used some really crappy pieces to make mine instead of using new rotors to machine hubs from like I asked numerous times for him to do. I wish you continued sucess with your business and keep up the good work.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Thank you, I aim to please and just try to meed needs that you guys have...look for a new and larger 13" Wilwood setup coming very soon. Let me know if you need anything or have questions, glad to help.

Ed