I recently went to the local pick-a-part, to pickup a t-bar. I'm finishing up changing out the weatherstripping on my 92 camaro, and then I'm putting up a for sale sign on it. It's just a 3.1 and I'd like something beefier. The engine runs great, and the car is still in pretty good repair, and I don't want to tear it apart for no reason. Besides which, I plan on using the money from it to pay some bills.

I do still want to get another camaro down the road, and I had thought if I could get one cheap, with little rust, and a decent running engine, I could buy a project and fix it up, thus allowing me to replace my 3rd gen quicker, but still allow me to have a nice car in the long run.

Anyways, getting to the point.... I was at the local pick-a-part, and there were somewhere around 12 third gens sitting there, and a handful of them were camaros, several of them without major damage. They'd been picked pretty clean of course, but subframes and engine bay seemed mostly intact. I talked to the guy at the desk, and he said for the subframe, he charges $150, and for a 4 piece, he charges $250.

My first question is, can someone give me pictures, and explain or refer me to a book (prefered actually, so I have reference later), explaining the breakdown of the frame on a third gen? I know it's a unibody, so it doesn't have a frame persay, but what makes up the body aside from the side panels, etc. If I were to purchase the "subframe", what exactly am I getting? I've never seen a third gen completely broke down and while I have the Haynes and Chiltons manuals, they do a piece by piece breakdown, and really don't go into a build from scratch breakdown. The main housing of the car really isn't touched on much in either.

Second question, can someone give me their opinion on building from the ground up? Obviously I don't know every intimate detail about building a car, but I'm confident that with help from a few friends I have, our combined knowledge would be enough for me to get the job done, but would you say it is well worth the trouble? The biggest plus for me is that in the end, I could practically have a new third gen, if done properly with all new parts, whereas a project car restoration, would be driven most likely, so all the parts would be in various stages of use.

Another concern, is how hard is it to get a title for something like this? I assume I'd have to get a Salvage Title? What about mileage, vin number, etc? Do I just inherite the VIN off of whatever body I happen to get? If I put all new engine parts in it (when I say engine, I mean everything mechanical, engine, suspension, intake, exhaust, etc. etc.) I would think I should be able to have the car registered with 0 mileage, but I don't know any of the legalities of this.

What do you guys think? I'm really seriously considering this if I can secure a garage where no one will mind having it sit for a while until it's eventually together.

Mathius

 

Your approach is entirely reasonable for a purpose
built race car but I would not reccomend it for a
street/show car.

You are correct that there is nothing particularly hard here
but the amount of time spent running down stuff
is truly maddening. You can burn a huge amount of time
doing this. Keep in mind that for 10 to 20 yrs there
is almost no chance that anyone will give you more
than 10K for your efforts ( well maybe a perfect TTA
will get there but not much else )


The "frame" if you will that portion of the car that
ca be disassembled without a torch. That is the k member
and the back half of the car. Two sets of sub frames
are welded to the pan. The front ones are the basis
for mounting the k member. the rear is the primary construct
for hanging the rear suspension.

If you are going racing ...
The opposite is true ...
The car needs to be no more than what will get you
past tech and near the front of the starting grid

so paying for anything more than that is a waste...

 

I know, doing it this way will definately take a loss money wise, but I don't intend to sell the car down the road. I mean unless I hit the lottery or something, the third gen is my dream car. I'm a realist enough to know I'll never be able to afford a Viper, or something equally sporty and exclusive, but a camaro on the other hand is realistic. But seriously, even with a project car, I'm going to take a loss.

What you say about the frame, is more or less along the lines that I was thinking, but I need the quote GM breakdown of a third gen. The guy at pick-a-part, more or less felt I should understand what he meant by "subframe". Basically I know what I want, the roof, the engine bay, the hatch bay, and the bottom half the suspension hooks up to, and maybe a floor pan, if I can't get a new one from GM (or aftermarket?). A book, or reference guide would be extremely helpful here. I'm going to contact a dealer tommorrow and see what I can find out about possible sources. Maybe they'll even have a manual for me to look at.

Quarter panels, front fenders, ground effects, hood, door shells can all be gotten aftermarket, or otherwise replaced, that sort of thing doesn't concern me, but I want to make sure that when the guy says "subframe" or "4-part", I'm getting what I need. I have to go back up there tuesday, I guess I'll just ask him for more details. Showing that I'm ignorant will hurt my ego, but it's necessary if I'm seriously going to pursue this.

Anyone have anymore thoughts on this? Don't tell me no one's ever done this?

Mathius

 

Tell him you want a complete rolling chassis and you'll give him no more than 500 bux, find one that hasnt been wrecked, make sure he has a rebuildable title to it, if not your wasting time pretty much, then tear it apart and begin your buildup.

 

Well, I've decided to go with a project car, rather than purchasing a rolling chasis. I spoke with my Uncle who works at the service department of a Pontiac dealer, and with the head body shop guy there, who's a friend of mine and they both pointed out that cars around here suffer pretty bad from rust (road salt from snow), and have a tendency to be bondo'ed or otherwise given quick fixes. They both suggested I try looking for something further southwest in a project car.

I pretty much agree with them now, after giving it some thought. Between myself, my dad, and my friends, I feel pretty confident we can fix just about any mechanical issues that might come up, but none of us are that great when it comes to body work and I certainly don't want to run into major issues with the subframes. Besides which, looking around will give me more time to secure a garage, a new daily driver, and get my old camaro sold.

Can anyone suggest some good places to look on the internet for project cars? Obviously I'll keep an eye out for something on the classifieds here, but I really don't want to spend more than $1000 for something I intend to tear down anyways. A driveable vehicle would be a plus just for the fact that I could drive it home instead of having to tow/haul it.

Also, I want the look of a 92 camaro, complete with ground effects. What year did they start adding the ground effects packages? Maybe I can save myself some money there, not having to replace body panels where I need to attach ground effects.

Mathius

 

'91 was the first year of those type of ground fx, and to get one for $1,000 it would be awfully hard unless it needs body work or serious mecahnical work. Why not just pull the motor on yours and swap in a 305 or 350?? Just a thought!

 

I found a 1981 TransAm with a 99% rust free body for $300 bucks.

It had the rare C&C t-tops (almost twice the size as Hurst ttops), had a posi rear end, and a loaded interior...

you can check out my link for pictures of what it looked like in the guy's backyard, and my tear down and restore...

http://community.webshots.com/user/todd82ta


In any case, I found it on AutoTrader... the guy had it advertised as a 1982 TransAm.. which was what I was originally looking to purchase (I used to have one), I saw the 1981 Smokey & the Bandit II TransAm for sale... and I couldn't pass it up.

Something like that might be your best bet... they often sell rolling chassises like that online.

Todd

 

Well, as I say, it doesn't _have_ to be running, or even have a motor, it would just make it easier to get home. I keep an eye out on Auto Trader and I've seen quite a few under $1000. I may end up getting one off there.

Mathius

 

Road Trip !

 

mathius, look wherever you go, keep an eye peeled. i remember when i spotted a 3rd gen i could get for cheap/free, and i was gonna make it a project car. but, on the way home, dissapointed in the condition of the car a bit, there sat a black formula, solid but rough around the edges. Needless to say, love at first sight. i talked the guy into letting it go for 1000 bux. but listen, 305 TPI, T5, SOLID body, only 66K, the interior cleaned up ok. Gutted stereo bay(not that i care) and some other stuff. All it needs is a tranny rebuild(i'll learn this summer, hehehe) and a little TLC. then i also went back and snagged the 2.8 bird (the one i looked at originally) as a parts car....for free. And thats in western NY, the kingdom of road salt. Dreams can come true, Dreams can come true.

 

Junkyards are the best!! No, not really. I got my bird from a junkyard ( straight non salvage title) for six hundred bucks. Straight body, good glass, and only a few minimal rust areas. Perfect floor, rubber sunroof seals, and it ran great. It had a 2.8 in it. I sold the motor and trans for 100 bucks, so now I only have 500 in it. I knew in advance that I just wanted the body, getting the motor was just a benefit from the pruchase. You can find deals like this.