you said the wing doesnt lend anything to aerodynamics, nothing about downforce.

You may not have started this thread, but you have pics of your car all over the net, and you take it to shows. so accept the criticism you asked for.

Your attitude about design sense makes no sense. First you say judges appreciate flow and integration, your wing mods have neither. Just because it came from and f-body doesnt change that. Would a firebird door look good there?
You admit that fabrication takes time and effort, so do you admit you are too lazy to do it? Part of fabrication and design is testing elements of it w/ mockups and templates, but I would never take a project in such a stage to a show. i have too much pride in my work. Thats why there arnt any pics of my custom jeep yet....... it isnt done.
Unveiling a design before its complete is just another example of poor design sense.
I look foward to seeing your FINISHED product so you can redeem yourself.

 

My appologies, I was rushing my post and did not think the spoiler aerodynamics all the way through. I had one thing in my mind and did not follow the thought thru.

My only issue is being attacked when its has no place in a thread. I don't go around posting my car in random threads without trying to assist someone. And if I ask for an opinion I take it.

Some would not take the vehicle out in process to shows, but this gave me real time feed back as to the feel from others on the modification. It also allows me to see what other do and get ideas from them. I don't have to have a fully molded perfect project to be able to take it out and show it. The fact that items are not molded in does bothers ME. It does not bother others in person. My rear lower spoiler actually sits alot cleaner and closer due to the 84 GFX in the rear. Most don't notice its not smoothed in. The front bothered me the most and thats why I took it off.. the angles were wrong on the side lip. So if was actually a detriment at shows I would not show it.

As to the fabrication... ever fabricated on a daily driver? Not easy you have to do it in in baby steps. There is no laziness in the equation. But as I have never done any fabrication with fiberglass personally I have to learn and go it carefully. So no I'm not going to throw all caution to the wind and start cutting and smoothing and hope it works. The plan was to always keep the vehicle in a state where I can still enjoy it and remember why I'm doing it at all. To park it and wait for perfection... Then I don't have the passion to keep driving me. And I have proven myself correct. I let someone throw caution to the wind and tackle things too quickly and too much at once and I got left with a car in pieces that I have to go back and fix before I can progress. And due to the nature of the changes that were made I have to wait for someone who is willing to go back inbehind the mess and fix it. And there is nothing cheap about the fix either. If I had continued doing it my way I would still have a car I could enjoy rather then garage furniture.

So you may call that lazy, I call it being smart and keeping myself focused on a final goal. Its just a different way of going about the same final result. Mine is just a bit more fluid, never said it was how everyone should do it.

 

World of Wheels is a sham, they make up classes as they go with no more than 3 cars per class so nobody bitches about not winning an award. Ever notice why they have HUNDREDS of trophies to give out?

Super Chevy- First off, how did you get a PONTIAC firebird with a what is clearly not a true Chevy engine into the show? Secondly, Super Chevy is more about who you know or suck up to when it comes to awards. How many other cars were you competing against in that class and what did you place?

T/A Nats I cannot comment about as I have never showed a car there, only spectated.

Awards are nice to get when they mean something. Most of the time they are only ego boosters and handed out so nobodys feelings get hurt, and they return to the show the following year.(see above) Awards I take to heart are Best Of Show ( which our non tgo friendly cars have recived at AACA, CCCA, BCA, and other Concours shows) and People's Choice awards. None of these shows allow junk into them, obviously.

It makes an award MUCH more meaningful in the sense you know the CAR is doing the talking and not the OWNER self-promoting the bejesus out of themselves.

 

Raif, I'll dial it back a bit, my apologies, you are putting a lot of effort into it. I like your headlights and tailights.
let me offer this advice then.... if this car project means a lot to you, then get a different daily driver. you obviously have some mechanical skills, just get a beater and drive that, which will allow you to focus on your project. I put just enough work into my t/a so i wasnt ashamed to drive it while i work on my other jeep project. Contrary to what is shown on "overhaulin" and shows like that, rushed work is what causes problems later. I drive an '87 corolla that looks like garbage as my commuter car when the weather isnt nice enough for the firebird. This way i can focus on the Jeep ('93 grand cherokee) w/out feeling stressed and take my time. Once thats done, i will have the Jeep to drive while i take my time w/ the firebird. I'll be bummed not to drive it for 8 months or so, but the reward of unveiling a project I can be proud of will be worth it. BTW, im well aware that some of the plans I have for the firebird will not be too many peoples taste, but I dont think they will be able to deny they are well thought out and executed.
Good luck on the project.

 

Sad to see even you have fallen prey to bad business practices, and are now left with an incomplete vehicle. Seems almost nobody can avoid that these days.... except my customers. good luck with the rejuvenation!

 

Redraif, I think I love you.

 

Funny I guess they did not pass out that memo when I went... The class was six cars deep in 06...
Funny I would not know who to even suck up too... I have won multiple times over the years in GA and AL... I have one my class all but 2x... then I was second. There have always been more cars then awards when I have shown. Granted its not a 10 deep class, but I do remember 5 in my class at one point. That was the year I won in both AL and GA. The conversion class is how I complete. The 3.4 is from a 95 Camaro. They concider the conversion valid. GM has only corporate engines anyway. My Grams Chevy Caprice had a Ols engine. Gave me fits at the parts store when the parts were not right.

[/QUOTE]Awards are nice to get when they mean something. Most of the time they are only ego boosters and handed out so nobodys feelings get hurt, and they return to the show the following year.(see above) Awards I take to heart are Best Of Show ( which our non tgo friendly cars have recived at AACA, CCCA, BCA, and other Concours shows) and People's Choice awards. None of these shows allow junk into them, obviously.

It makes an award MUCH more meaningful in the sense you know the CAR is doing the talking and not the OWNER self-promoting the bejesus out of themselves. [/QUOTE]

I beg to differ with you on the people choice awards... that always boils down to who brings the most friends, gives out the most candy, or has the most hooters girls around the car... The funny thing, a girl can't self promote her car if everyone is scared to even talk to her. No one asks me anything or discusses the car with me at shows cause they assume I'm not the owner. So its a bit hard to self-promote the car. I leave the judges alone when they judge unless they ask a question.

As far as giving awards out to make someone happy and have them come back... um no. If the car is what most of you invision it to be, I would think they would want to run me off.. At the TA nats and STARS show I have won the class multiple years. At STARS the class is usually 4-5 deep... TA Nats it was as deep as 10-13. It is what it is.... Normally it would tick people off who hate the car that I would win an award at all. Though there are quite a few members here that changed their negative tunes abut the car once they saw it in person.

I have one best of many times... I have 2 best engine awards under my belt... NOPI Nationals and SLAP Nationals (granted they don't hold much weight with you all) I have won best domestic at a few smaller shows. I have won best interior at STARS. People/Kids choice at STARS. People/Kids choice at the Tipp City cruise @ the TA Nats. Anyone who has been to that cruise knows its insane. 100s of f-bodys....

No I have not shown at any Concours shows, but that is IMPOSSIBLE with a daily driver. I can't complete with chromed suspension w/ smoothed and painted undercarriges. I would never try to. Regular trailered cars are bad enough to compete with. But at least I was able to take the car out and enjoy it.

 

Thanks! I just hope I can pull off the repairs to the brake, fuel and electical systems that went with the whole mess. Wish I could say it was simply a shop screw up...

 

Well that is the very decision I did make. I have a 84 Fiero thats needs a bunch of TLC. My spouse and I got a 03 Civic the save on gas, as we ride together to work, so that helps as well. Thats how I'm now able to just let the car sit till the right person come along to get the repairs done by. Two of my paintes had me on a waiting list and then ended up moving out of state when the economy tanked. Lets not even joke about overhaulin... that is the very concept that someone took with my car while I was porting the new heads. That is exactly how I got here. Thanks and good luck with your projects as well

 

"Taste" is not someONEs opinion, it's a group of peoples opinion because it is learned. 95% on this board (while they may appreciate the effort, because it IS obvious you put a ton of time and effort into the vehicle) would agree the car is horrifying and the ideas are lame and overdone. Why do you think people disrespect others cars by calling them "*****" or ugly? It's not because it's not someones taste. It's because when someone goes all out, and do something so way over the top, it takes an idea that could have had potential, and ruins it. Even with the various body mods you've done, a nicer color scheme (Espcially inside) without the highly contrasting color black so randomly mixed in, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is... These cars aren't "imports" per sey, and deserve to be given a look that is more slick, simple and pleasing to the eye, than all that gaudy lots of color everywhere, pieces sticking out here and there stuff...

Perfect example is your spoiler - While i don't think it looks particularly bad, IMO, if you wanted something different or more along the lines of the mecham spoiler, then why not cut the forward pieces on an aerowing shorter, then add an inch or two of material to the bottom of the pedastal parts to raise the wing up? You could even vary the material or have cut it in such away it increased the angle of the wing... THAT is the type of modification that while someone may not like, would respect and have no qualms about giving postive feedback about regardless of how it may look...


And who runs 3" spacers??? I have a set of vette wheels on my car and i run a 2" spacer out front and a 3/8" in the back...

 

One person or many... its the individuals opinion what falls into their learned definition of TASTE. Not sure on your percentage. Many like it but don't say as they don't want to get bashed. Seems the Nay Sayers are louder and more apt to express their opinion then the people who are ok with it. I have as much positive as negative feedback on the car. The thread I ahve found where my car gets trashed... I have not seen a floodgate of people posting. Even on boards where they won't get tossed for saying it. Its usually just the same people saying they talk for the masses.
No, I know the car is not an import. I have tried to roll what I like from all genres of cars into what I make. I have never denied that yes you wil see import, street rod, muscle car, mini truck, rat rod.... But the car is refining each time I change something. As I get more streamline in what I like. Don't think I don't hear what others say and take that into concideration. I always take what people say in no matter how they say it and try to learn and grow from it.

Just to clear this up... Your comment about the interior... Are you not liking the grey to black conversion I did. I guess the statement "black randomly mixed in" is confusing me... I was trying to keep the interior mostly black with the red as an accent... I guess its just hard to be sure as there is so much of my car out there. The old and new versions of things. Its hard to know what people are commenting on.
The spoiler was of much debate even when I did it. The unlike materials kept me from grafting the 2 and making them more uniform. Again the mecham was not available yet. The car was so nose heavy with the hood and stock spoler. I did not want to put the 4th gen spoiler on the car becasue it was really the only other option and so many already had it. Same with the other ram air 2 hood. Its just so everywhere. The prob with the aerowing was the weight... that rubber is aweful to work with... I thought about the Fiero spoiler with the Fiero stores raised pedastal, but that idea I was holding for the 82 with the notch... So I put the 2 together. Oddly enough it grew on me. It broke up the heavy front, but kept the shopping cart look down. I might play around with something else, but I actually kind of like the 2 together.

Hence the "ish" I know some of the spacers I have heard people run were over 2 to get the rear clearance needed to run widers tires in the rear... I thought I remembered needed 2+ for the 4th gen rims, but its been a while since I have even worried about it since I have had more pressing matters like fixing the disaster in my engine bay... so I'm sure I'm over on the size, but a spacer is a spacer. Again, made right you can have them be as safe as rims. I ran mine a bit wider then some, as I did not want a tucked in wheel. I don't plan to slam the car so I wanted a more flush look. Giving it a bit more meaty look. But again this is what lead to the wheel change. My wheels are too darn narrow!

 

I like the bottom ones the best, you could get a nice lip on those with the right offset.

 

Actually, GM testing on the 1982 Trans Am showed the factory spoiler to be aerodynamically functional. It reduced the Cd number by .003.

 

Ideally I wanted to get a set of Maya's or Asanti's wheels. They have a wide variety of 3 piece wheels that I could more then likely get that would minimize my spacer size. Not to mention the width options.... I plan to run something with a decent sized lip. Bout the only way to get a 10+ under the car in back