Originally Posted by 90-irocdx3

Will the 4th gen wilwood 6 piston brakes fit on a thirdgen? i saw wilwood carries a 6 piston kit with 13" rotors and that would be perfect for my car, do you have to have any custom brackets or does it just bolt right up. Already have the wilwood 4 piston brakes up front with a 10.75 rotor and the car stops ok, just want to make it way better.

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

The kit you currently have probably has the Dynalite calipers which are just terrible. They are really designed for low horsepower, 2000lb cars. They have no business on our cars other than a straight drag kit.

Wilwood sells a few different 13" class kits for the fourth gen. Can you provide a part number on the kit you are looking at?

If you want to use a fourth gen kit you will need to first install 4th gen brackets on your spindles. Instead I would suggest starting with a C5/C6 based kit if you want to go direct from Wilwood. The bracketry is a superior design for a swap on our cars. You would then need a C5/C6 adapter bracket installed on your spindles.

What do you plan to use the car for?

Also, what wheels are you using?

John

Originally Posted by 90-irocdx3

Thanks for your response, I was looking at this kit http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/140-9833-D/10002/-1

I am open to using other brakes like the c6 zo6 brakes or any other brand out there, trying to keep a reasonable price on brakes. My car is a street strip car. My car is pushing quite a bit of power the tuner i have is thinking around 700rwhp+ . Right now I have zo6 c5 rims 17" in front and 18" in the back. I really need something better than the brakes i have right now, they work ok,but not much better than stock. i have 12 bolt strange with 4th gen ls1 brakes in the back and the rotors are bigger than the front looks very awkward on my car.

Originally Posted by hellz_wings

There was a 6 piston, 13" rotor wilwood custom brake setup that Vetruck made years ago on his 92. That was a lightweight setup and he used it for track racing.. It also fit inside the 16" IROC wheels.

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

Wilwood makes a number of six piston calipers that are directly interchangeable with their 4 piston models. Even the pads are interchangeable. The only real advantage of the 6 piston models is they have differential piston bores to reduce pad taper. Granted they are getting better at doing this with the 4 piston models as well. So at the end of the day, using their 6 piston calipers is not much of an upgrade over the 4 piston models but costs more of course.

With that said, we already have the Wilwood FSL 4piston 13" kit that fits inside of the IROC wheels. Using the six piston version of this caliper would fit no different, just cost a little more. This is a pretty potent kit for a reasonable price.

John

Originally Posted by Tibo

What is the part number for the wilwood FSL calipers and what bracket would you use for one?

Originally Posted by banksGTA

is that wildwood kit lighter then the 1le brakes?

Originally Posted by hellz_wings

The benefits of this brake package over the 1LE package definitely outweigh the extra few lbs IMO.. I would get aluminum hubs to offset the extra added rotational weight of the rotor.

Originally Posted by Jetmeck

6 piston caliper ? Really ?

The parachute board might be more useful to you.

What are we trying to stop........the space shuttle ?

I mean....really

Originally Posted by banksGTA

1le weighs in at 39.68lbs that is rotor and caplier mounted to the spindle.

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

Jet,

The number of pistons really does not have much to do with it. Its mostly the piston area that matters. There are some key advantages to 4-6 piston calipers , but I'll save that discussion for another time.

The OEM front brakes on these cars are awful. If you are going to upgrade, might as well do it right. The setup 90-irocdx3 is talking about is not an overkill setup. It would be great on the street and on a road course.

John

Originally Posted by Jetmeck

OEM brakes are awful but 6 piston calipers on a street car is totally and completely overkill and like one of those elite, totally top of the line, money doesn't matter write ups in car magazines we all complain about.


Least use some common sense, this is not main stream, this is about as useless to the average 3rd gen owner as the thread we have on putting ABS on these cars.

Come on guys...at least your thread would actually stop the car quicker and likely not create a bunch of issues in the process but your mod is a massive over reach.

Whatever works for the one guy that might be silly enough to do this. This is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod

Im Vetruck

The setup I built was 36 lbs each side complete with spindles and brake lines attached. They were 6 piston radial mount calipers and 2 pc 13" rotors with custom made aluminum G-body (yes I said G-body) hubs made by Global West for a 4000lb G-body racecar. They still had a CAD file and made me a dupicate set that matched with the same offset and Timken bearing sets that we have on F-bodies.

Why 6 piston?
If you do research and understand pressures, the 6pot caliper has less overall piston volume than the same 4pot caliper in that spectrum. The 2 extra pistons allow for a better force distribution on the back side of the pads for a smoother and more even applied pressure. The caliper gave me less pedal travel and mated better in volume 'in proportion" to the smaller Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston caliper I used in the rear (12.2" 2pc rotor).
It boils down to calculations and MC chamber bore volume, etc.

Dean (aka Vetruck)

Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod

ps- you will not find a lighter weight setup that pound for pound has more stopping power.
Also most people are using heavier Vette products as well as putting heavier and wider wheels and tires ont he car- this is the worst thing you can do for ride quality and handling. Keep the unsprung weight light is critical for an ultimate handling car- its why things cost big $$$$ because of exotic lightweight metals.

Best car I have raced to date and have absolutely fell in love with is a 2011 Ferrari 599 Fiorano with massive 19" carbon rotors- ohhhhhh (excuse me while I lick my lips) talk about the ungodly world of Ferrari computer braking technology- you have not idea until you drive one hard- and Ive raced alot of exotic things in my day.

Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod

^^^Jinx- you owe me a beer

Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod

John,

On my link page to that car, I see that I weighed the front Wilwood rotor next to a worn out crossdrilled Stillen rear rotor in OEM size for our cars that came off my old car. The link says I wrote that the new pc front rotor was 0.6 lbs heavier than the "equivilant no hub" factory size rear rotor that was turned down and worn out (lighter than when it was new- and remember it was drilled also which reduces a little weight over a stock OEM rotor)

Originally Posted by 87350IROC

Jet,

You have to remember a few things. I notice you car has only 9k miles. For this reason I suspect it is a garage queen and not driven hard on the occasions when it is driven. For you, originally is probably a large factor.

What you seem to ignore is that many of us road race, track our cars. Our thermal demands are much greater than yours. I can assure you a mid sized Wilwood caliper on a 13x1.1 rotor is by no means overkill. In face it is quite right sized for our big heavy cars. Remember just because it has 6 pistons doesn't mean it is a large caliper or provides to much force. It all comes down to hydraulic advantage. Did you know, all of the calipers we are talking about here have a SMALLER piston area than the stock calipers?

John

Originally Posted by Jetmeck

Assume, assume...you know what they say. I have had four third gens. Currently have two.

Really this conversation has nothing to do with a particular model...............this is about extreme overkill for a street driven vehicle................

50 years old, aircraft mechanic and loads of common sense and logic.

This is simply not needed..............you guys are road racing.

Fine have at it but this is ridiculous to anyone with an average street vehicle and you know it.


Smaller piston area but larger pad surface area.......I got it.

Still way more than anyone of the 99.9% here needs and any c4, c5 or ls1 or that size would be more than adequate and substancially reduce the stopping distance.

AS said I could put a parachute out back but is it necessary ?

Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod

Im Vetruck

The setup I built was 36 lbs each side complete with spindles and brake lines attached. They were 6 piston radial mount calipers and 2 pc 13" rotors with custom made aluminum G-body (yes I said G-body) hubs made by Global West for a 4000lb G-body racecar. They still had a CAD file and made me a dupicate set that matched with the same offset and Timken bearing sets that we have on F-bodies.

Why 6 piston?
If you do research and understand pressures, the 6pot caliper has less overall piston volume than the same 4pot caliper in that spectrum. The 2 extra pistons allow for a better force distribution on the back side of the pads for a smoother and more even applied pressure. The caliper gave me less pedal travel and mated better in volume 'in proportion" to the smaller Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston caliper I used in the rear (12.2" 2pc rotor).
It boils down to calculations and MC chamber bore volume, etc.

My brakes ran enough heat no problem for daily street use and would stop the car in an incredible 102 feet from 60-0. A stock 87 IROC did the same stop test in 147 feet. That is 45 feet shorter or almost 3 car lengths. So again why? for safety if in a panic situation on the road, I would stop and the IROC next o me would plow into at least two to three cars in front of him causing an accident given the same panic condition.

Did I also mention this test was done on 220 tw DOT street tires that were factory size 245/50-16's on factory 16" x 8" wide IROC wheels?---yes.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/518752...-6/#5187520072

Dean (aka Vetruck)

ps- you will not find a lighter weight setup that pound for pound has more stopping power.
Also most people are using heavier Vette products as well as putting heavier and wider wheels and tires ont he car- this is the worst thing you can do for ride quality and handling. Keep the unsprung weight light is critical for an ultimate handling car- its why things cost big $$$$ because of exotic lightweight metals.

Best car I have raced to date and have absolutely fell in love with is a 2011 Ferrari 599 Fiorano with massive 19" carbon rotors- ohhhhhh (excuse me while I lick my lips) talk about the ungodly world of Ferrari computer braking technology- you have not idea until you drive one hard- and Ive raced alot of exotic things in my day.

Originally Posted by TEDSgrad

Application has a lot to do with it. I have these: http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...o=120-8000-FSR Website says: heavy-duty street; medium duty road race.

Three - 25 min sessions around Road America resulted in this wear of brand new BP-10 pads. Obviously, I need better pads for this track. Generating some heat! Almost scored the rotor - look at the upper left outside pad. Back side of pad pretty close wear - result of the 6 piston?

Originally Posted by TEDSgrad

Yes, narrow - less pad, but light w/2 PC rotors and alum hubs. Not overkill, just a little different approach.
Yes again, definite compound issue.

Originally Posted by TEDSgrad

Going to do the spring mod for the rears - prop valve. I suspect that the fronts did all the work. Hawk pads on rears still look good.
If the fronts did all the work, then that is really good pad distribution by the 6.

Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod

Back to topic- the advantage of a 6 piston caliper is in fact the even pad wear. You can not get that with 4 piston calipers using the same pad length. I used that exact same SL-6 caliper where I could shim it to use the 13.06x1.25 GT48 curved vane rotor. That combo would handle that car on Laguna Seca for 40 laps no problem. I use to run the car on California Speedway with the lightweight SRP rotors and pull it down from the turn two bank onto the back stretch turn3-4 chicane from 125mph down to 35mph and they would be cool by the time I lapped around and came into the pits. I would eat the BMW M3's for lunch under that high speed brake zone (pic attached- note by frame 7 the nose of my car is out of the shot. the M3 had to brake much earlier than me. I would gain about 4 car lengths on him in this corner entry alone. He was about the same curb weight and wider tires)

Paul, I have run against in sutox as well as have driven on several cars with Baer track brakes on their 3rd gens. One of them happens to be the kid I mentor on here (Black Mamba, or Valentin) My car would eat the crap out of his brake setup and I know Valentin will not take offense to that statement becasue it takes nothing away from how well his car performs. Hands down he would never pull the stops I did, I have driven his car on tracks and the street countless times to know this first hand.