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that suckout below 250hz is pretty much unavoidable because there's just no air volume for the woofers. I fought with this in my kickpanel builds too, and the only way to fix it is to add significant airspace behind the woofers (and try to find a woofer with a lower Qts) or move the woofer to the door and add a mid in the kicks. Now that I'm back to work on my car, I'm trying to figure out what approach that I want to take. The fenders are off the car, so now is the time to build out an enclosure in the void between the kick panel and the fender if I decide to go that route, or start exploring a door option. To be honest, now that we can time-align every driver individually, there's a lot less advantage to having everything stuffed into the kicks as there used to be. Back when I did my kicks the imaging and staging was fantastic for its time (but that hole under 250 was awful), but when I did my last truck I kept the stock door location with tweeters in custom pods mounted midway up the sail panels, and once I time-aligned the whole thing, it imaged better than my Camaro with a much higher soundstage. Because of that, I'm almost certainly going to put the tweeters in the sails in the Camaro, and then I may end up with mids in the stock dash location with woofers in the doors. I dunno yet, but either way, I've come to the conclusion that I can't live with that massive suckout below 250hz.
^^^. This right here, on the money.
Ive been flirting with the idea of going to 5.25” drivers to help the suck out issue, even started looking at DSPs (eww) to try and correct for plausible cancellation. I won’t admit defeat, not yet I have too many hours into the kicks to quit on them.
see below, two well known manufacturers.
one is expensive, other is not.
which direction would you take?
Last edited by theraymondguy; Jul 16, 2024 at 06:55 PM.
Ive been flirting with the idea of going to 5.25” drivers to help the suck out issue, even started looking at DSPs (eww) to try and correct for plausible cancellation. I won’t admit defeat, not yet I have too many hours into the kicks to quit on them.
see below, two well known manufacturers.
one is expensive, other is not.
which direction would you take?
when dealing with just the suckout specifically, probably the first one just because my quick in-my-head calculations say that will function better with no airspace, but realistically, they're both going to still have a huge suckout, and then once you pull other factors in, you can't ignore the low frequency rolloff of these drivers, especially the 2nd one, is going to leave you another gap at the sub crossover frequency, if not one big gap from 250 all the way down to sub crossover.
I’ve spent my summer researching the “MidBass suckout” phenomenon.
Apparently all vehicles will suffer from this issue, however the frequency that the phenomenon centres on is different in every car due to their internal size. Two way systems with mid bass drivers exhibit this phenomenon predominantly because they can’t focus power in this area.
Swapping another set of mid bass drivers really won’t get the job done.
The solution ultimately is a 3 way setup, another amplifier and a DSP. The mid driver is necessary to fight the suck out, the amplifier to power them and the DSP to manage crossovers and time alignment for 6 amplified channels. There is no real estate available at the kicks, which normally would mean running the mid and tweeter on the a pillars; which I find disgusting 🤮
Not that it’s wrong, but because it’s new school. It absolutely will not work without time aligning/ DSP.
I may give it a go, we’ll see. This winter’s time budget will be somewhat consumed reupholstering seats and some foam refurbishing on a set of Ultima (GTA) Seats
Last edited by theraymondguy; Sep 10, 2024 at 04:48 PM.
Wouldn't it be simpler to run the 3s packs in the Lunchie?
I know mine is nuts with a brushless 3100kv motor and 2s, on the 3s it was nearly impossible to drive.
Seems to spend more time on its side.
I have gone back to a brushed motor and 2s since then.
I will have to look more into the midbass suckout you mention as well.
Wouldn't it be simpler to run the 3s packs in the Lunchie?
I know mine is nuts with a brushless 3100kv motor and 2s, on the 3s it was nearly impossible to drive.
Seems to spend more time on its side.
I have gone back to a brushed motor and 2s since then.
I will have to look more into the midbass suckout you mention as well.
I already own a host of m12 batteries and chargers… hard to pass up that opportunity.
