80smetalfan

Hello all,
In wake of the rising gas prices (and also just for fun), I have begun studying what's neccessary to convert my Quadrajet topped 350 to run on E-85. I have found a website with a whole wealth of information on what to do. E-85 offers several advantages over pump gas, as it is about 102 octane, and seems as if it could be very well suited to performance applications as a cheap substitute for lower octane race gas.

The issues I'm aware of at this point are the fact that does not mix well below 60 degrees Faranheit and will require a cold start tank and line system, along with a float adjustment as the weight of ethanol is different than that of gasoline, along with requiring accelerator pump adjustment and the fact that ethanol corrodes some metals.

I plan on buying a second Quadrajet and modifying it to run E-85. I figure that for the time being, given the small number of E-85 stations, that one could use the E-85 carb when possible, and simply carry a second Q-Jet setup to ideally run on gasoline and swap when needed, as it's not terribly difficult. This probably seems cheap or cheesy to some, but I have no reservations about taking 5 minutes to swap a carb at a gas station, as I carry the tools anyways! However, when swapping, one would need to retard their ignition timing to use the lower octane.

I do know that the primary jets will have to be adjusted or changed.

This topic may have been addressed before, but I thought I'd link up this site, as it has quite a bit of info. I will update this thread with info on progess on my E-85 Gen. I SBC.

Converting your engine

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It's been discussed before https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...5-jetting.html .

The racer who wrote articles for DragNews didn't find any benefit to advancing the timing over what he used for gasoline.

I'm planning on using it in the '57 this season. I've wondered about how a CC q-jet would respond, the big difference I think would be the stoichiometric ratio is different between gasoline and E85, so you'd have to carry a different PROM as well in order to be able to switch between E85 and gasoline.

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

Only real problem is E85 isn't all that cheap anymore either. Supposedly they say ethanol is even more expensive to refine than oil. And with the EPA forcing oil companies to get rid of MTBE and switch to E85 blends the demand is going to do nothing but raise the costs of E85 even further.

80smetalfan

It's around $2 a gallon right now though. If the conversion is cheap, I won't mind saving 50 cents on the gallon.

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

I have a sneaky feeling that price difference won't stay long. But essentially it should be cheaper then gas always

80smetalfan

I'm not running a CC Q-jet though. I've got the older Vac advance style.
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The thing to keep in mind is that gas prices should fall with increased E-85 demand, as that should lessen the demand for gas. But I agree that we shouldn't expect anything but fishy business from oil and refining companies who put this stuff out. Given the sheer number of things you can make ethanol from, there's no reason that E-85 should be expensive as it currently is.

Entrical

save 50 cents a gallon? you should be so lucky, gas here is 2.90 almost for 87.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

That's what I was going to say, $2.50 a gallon? quit 'yer whining! $.99 per liter, and not moving.

wezeles

well depends here in michigan the goverment is forcing ethanol plants to get built and a specific amount to be made... they already started ona refinery here next to me with contracts with alot of local farms to push some out... aslong as they can keep up with refinery build ups and not have the same EPA bull crap for how they run over there heads as gas refinerys do it shouldnt stay high too long

Forshock 85TA

not really adding anything but... $3.17

Ethanol wont be cheaper, it is a NEGATIVE potential. More energy is used creating it than it produces.

80smetalfan

This comment I find interesting. Explain more about this.

Forshock 85TA

Net Energy List (EROEI) Comparing Different Energy Processes

Blackroc86

Did you notice the date of the information on that site? 1984 and 1996. A lot of changes have occured since that time in the manufacturing of ethanol.

Forshock 85TA

that was the only link i found at the time...
Hard to filter out the good (real world) and bad (lobbyists).

http://www.energyjustice.net/ethanol/

maybe someone can enlighten me: What does E85 cost per gallon?

Some known facts:
ethanol MPG will drop 2-4% compared to Petrol.
CO2 is lower with Ethanol
No real ozone benefits

Any schooled people here? Enlighten us (me) who arent

80smetalfan

About $2 a gallon right now in most areas, some less, some more. The national average is supposed to be around 35% less than the average cost of 87 octane gasoline.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I filled up a 5 gallon gas can this evening. At this particular Shell station, regular unleaded (85 octane) was $2.699, premium unleaded (91 octane) was $2.929. The E85 was $2.699.

On the way to the station, I saw 91 octane as high as $2.999.

Although I don't much appreciate them raising the price along with gasoline, I'll still run it rather than pay the $3/gal for 91 octane. The cooling benefits are particularly attractive to me.

Forshock 85TA

Well then i guess my current (not future ) arguments are defeated.

The only thing i see now are the increases in cancer causing agents (the aldehyde family). Lets see how they deal with those...

Almost makes me kinda wish i could try some out here (nearest station is 140 miles away!) we have 10% blend here.

edit: wrong hyde family

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The net petroleum use issues will be resolved with time. The University of Nebraska has been operating energy-self-sufficient bio farms for over two decades. It's a question of developing the infrastructure to make it mass economically viable, and this is another case where government needs to get out of the way and let free enterprise do its thing. Of course, when fringe special-interest groups get the ear of the bureaucracy (such as the dangers of ethanol link), you know things are going to get weird.

Want to talk about the environmental harm and annual deaths caused by dihydrogen monoxide?

Forshock 85TA

LOL that is good

And so we bring Hydrogen fuel cells into the mix

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Does Victorville even have any dihydrogen monoxide???

Forshock 85TA

Id hope so, i design software for the SCADA control systems...