Do I need a cam that is designed for computers with a ccc or can I just use a normal cam. I am looking at a compcam. I will be running it in a 350 with ported and gasket matched 305 heads(for the time being) and I am using a stock style gasket matched stock style alum intake. I will be running hooker lt headers and probably true duals. I am putting a 3.45 rear in the car as soon as the guy gets back in town so I can pick it up. The tranny is a 700R4 that has been rebult and has a shift kit and corvette servo. I am planning on putting a stall converter in it(possibly just s-10). If I dont need one specifically for the computer controlles I was looking at the magnum 280h part number
12-212-2. It has 230 duration at .050, and .480 lift w/ 110 lsa. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ben

 

Oh, and does anyone know if that lift would be with 1.5 or 1.6 rockers. What are the stock rockers?

Thanks

Ben

 

Stock rockers are 1.5.

Take a look at Five7kid's mods. He has comments all over on the Carb board. He has a 305 with cc QJet and his setup looks like it is gonna rock

 

I have tried searching but cant find anything to answer my question. Does anyone at least know if I will need a cam specifically made for a computer or not.

Thanks for the help,

Ben

 

GOoollOLLIE, Sgt. Carter! Now ya made me blush!

You don't "need" a compucam, but by design they are much more likely to work without giving the computer brain farts. If you don't mind having to pull the "regular" cam out after it sends your computer into a tizzy, then it may be worth a try to see if you can get by with more cam than a computer-type. And, yes, cam specs are typically quoted assuming stock 1.5:1 rockers.

BTW, I assume you have plans for mounting the O2 sensor in the LT Hookers. From what I hear (no personal exposure), a heated sensor works better when it's mounted that far away from the heads.

(Bull, I hope my setup rocks on the track like it has on the street. "Come on, April, get here so Bandimere can open!")

 

Well, what kind of specs do you think would be best with this type of setup? I know best may not be determinable, so how about recomended?

Thanks for the help

Ben

 

Oh, and actually I am just figuring this out as I go and I had thought about the 02 sensor some but had not totaly figured it out. If anyone has any suggestions or has used these with a computer controlled car let me know. Is it possible to lengthen the wire to the o2 sensor. The reason I ask is because the signal it sends is so small and varies so I wondered if lengthening the wire would cause probs with the computer. Second I have heard the heated o2 sensors talked about and know they cost more but how much do they cost and where can I get one. Do they make one that can be specifically used with our cars or do we have to pirate something from another type of car?

Thanks again

 

The cam you mentioned has a little more duration, about the same lift, and a little less LSA than mine. Since you're putting it into a larger engine, you just may be able to get away with it.

I picked up my cam from Summit, p/n CRN-114142, $137; comes with lifters & timing gear lock plate. It is CARB certified for carb cars. It's flat tappet, which I assume is what you want. I'm sure it would do the job for you if you want to play it safe and know it will work when you fire it up. They list the powerband as 2200-5200, but mine really wants to go beyond 5200 - 5600-5700 is more like it. My TC stalls at 2300, so the lower end isn't an issue for me.

FWIW, the Summit tech description has this text attached: "Note: Computer engines require a highly unique lobe profile to be compatible with the vehicle's electronic capabilities. The cam specifications for CraneCompuCam camshafts should not be compared to other non-computer controlled cam specs." That's probably a little over-stated, but there is some truth to it, which is why you were promted to ask the question in the first place, right?

You can lengthen the O2 sensor wire, but I'll have to defer to someone else about the heated sensor question.

 

In your sig you say something about 2.93 rear end gears. Do you mean 2.73? How does your cam seem to do with them. I looked at that cam and it said that 3.73 or numberically higer were recomended. I was just curious. I will have 3.45s and I figure that they will be fine for what I get but I just thought that I would see how you do with your gears.

Ben

Oh, and yes it is flat tappet.

 

They really are 2.93 gears. From another '82. Only offered for a year or two. I have fairly short 60-series 14" tires on it, so the final ratio is about the same as as 3.08's and 15" 60-series tires.

The "3.73 gear ratio" really only applies to a manual tranny. For us, the TC is what matters. You should be fine with a higher stall and 3.45's.

In case you haven't figured it out, I really love the way it runs. Drives mildly if you want it to, pulls away from stoplights great, will simply haul when you get on it and get the revs up. It even gets around in the snow with no particular problems.

 

Have you had it to the track, or even g-teched it? I am just curios about what you run. Do you think I should go for a slightly larger cam with the more cubic inches? What kind of stall converter do you run with yours. I was looking at the s-10 converter for cost issues and was told it would stall around 2100-2200. Do any other companies other than comp cams and crane cams make flat tappet computer cams? I am just trying to find exactly what I want. I would like one that is made specifically for computers so that I wouldnt have any problems with it, but it just seems like there is not a huge selection out there. I know it is a 305, but just out of curiosity what kind of gas mileage do you get with that setup?

Ben

 

I finished the mods in early November, and the track doesn't open until mid-April. I haven't tried to hook up with anybody who has a G-Tech. It "feels" stronger than the '57, but we all know about the reliability of the butt-dyno.

I picked this cam because it was the biggest listed and closest to the ZZ4 cam I had intended to use (found out my roller block was cracked in the lifter valley, this cam was my fall-back plan). With more displacement, you should be able to use more cam - like the ZZ4, which is used in the GM HO 350 Camaro Conversion kit, but it's roller, so to use it you'd have to get retrofit roller lifters (pretty expensive), different pushrods, etc.

My TC is a rebuilt/restalled 12-inch unit from a local Denver company. The owner estimated it would stall around 2000-2100 when I told him my intended combo. When I told him that it actually stalled at 2300, his response was, "You must be putting out some serious power." The advertised powerband of the cam starts at 2200, so that's right on. (He said he has a customer using the same converter behind a twin-turbo nitrous Vette that stalls at 4500.)

I don't know of anyone else who advertises a computer flat tappet, but wouldn't be surprised if Lunati or someone like that would offer something if you talked to them.

My gas mileage did drop, from about 18-19 commuting to about 15-16 commuting (I do keep a running record). Part of the problem is its increased capacity to remove gasoline from the tank, and the accompanying temptation to do it (on-ramps, stop lights, etc.). The other issue is that my TCC has never locked, and getting that working should bring it back up an MPG or two - maybe more because it is a looser TC than the stock one was.

 

You don't need a computer cam for a cc Q-jet
but you will want to select a cam that will not cause the power
spring (in the carb) to pull the primary metering rods up @ idle.
The comp cams 280H Magnum, falls in that class.
The manifold vacuum is reduced enought at idle that the metering rods will not stay down at idle, causing a rich serging idle.
This is a lot of cam for your planed combination anyways.
You won't like the soft performance in the low end and your heads won't support the top end of the 280 magnum.
This cam really needs a 3.73+ gear and a 2800+ converter
and a better head.
A much better cam would be one with less duration
like the 268H hi energy or the 265 DEH dual energy.
These two cams will idle properly with your q-jet
and have good torque with your near stock converter, heads and rear gear. They will have lots of rpm range and pull strong to 5500 rpm+. You can find the specs in the comp cams catalog
or online @ www.compcams.com.
One of the biggest mistakes is overcaming a near stock motor.
We're always tempted to bolt in a big cam.
Note: These two cams will keep working well for you
when you make your upgrades too. They are very versitile
grinds.

 

What about the 268H Xtreem energy? At least the 265 DEH is listed as for stock exhaust(which mine will be far from). I just think that the lift on those looks a little low. Is the duration on the one I listed above too long also? I am not arguing with you I am just trying to figure out what I am doing. Just so you know my compression will be about 10:1 because of the 58 cc heads, and I will have the hooker lt headers w/ duals and the heads are fully pocket ported and gasket matched. I have put dr rods and b hanger in the carb. I have not totaly decided on the s10 conveter either, I just am trying to do this on a budget. I might get a higher converter. I thought that 57 said that with an automatic that the rear didnt matter as much as converter. Well, I know I am probably trying to over cam and I dont want to do that, I just have to either match the other stuff I get to it or talk myself out of what I dont need. It is kind of a psycalogical thing I think.

Ben

 

The 268 XE also needs a better head and a higher stall
converter than you have or plan on. The two cams I
recommended will work nicely with your combo now and in the future. Don't let the lift specs spook ya, The valve is only at peak lift for a split second and .440 to .450 lift is really enough for these heads. The timing points are much more important than the lift. These high energy cams are very versitile and won't let you down. It's most important to select the cam that will pull
well right from your converter's stall speed, and gearing's rpm range. This will give you the best overall performance. These mid range cams will also work well with any improvments
you plan to make like better heads and or gear and converter
trust me. Good luck.

 

Depending on how in depth your port work will go, I wouldent go any higher "comp cam speaking" a 270H. This cam loves high compression, headders and a stock converter will work with this cam. I hate the CC carb and the one that was on the firebird gave me fits, of course that was a low comprssion 305 with this cam and no port work to the heads at all, it threw up codes but im sure I could have eventualy fixed the problems but Im lazy You should have no problems with an engine that can take full advantage of a higher profile cam. I was using a sat night special with the lil 58cc heads on the 350 in the camaro with no flow problems and my truck still sports a 270H with the 58cc heads on that. I would go with a 270H and a DR setup in the carb.

 

What does the sat night special stall at, and how do you like it. Does the car pull hard with your setup? Could you give me more specifics on your setup possibly.

Thanks

Ben

 

What needs to be clear here is that, as always, it's "The Package". It all has to work together, or even one piece can mess the whole thing up.

I started off assuming the World heads. A bud had an LB9 engine he wanted out of his garage, and when I went to pick it up, he threw in his unused ZZ3 cam and the TPI stuff. I knew I wanted headers and good exhaust, but assumed I'd need the TPI to get it past emissions with that cam. Seeing the GM HO 350 Conversion kit got me to thinking that I could do emissions & carb (simplier, and the TPI wasn't quite complete), and then the same guy sold me the manifold. I figured the heads would never flow what the cam could produce, so I decided I'd better port them.

In the meantime, I found the posi rear, and a guy in the staging lanes at Bandimere told me about the torque converter outfit (he was a delivery driver for them).

When I got ready to put it all together, I discovered the LB9 block was cracked (the guy honestly didn't know that), and my LG4 block was non-roller. That forced me to get the Summit catalog out, and that's when I made the decision to go with the Crane cam (again, biggest thing I could find in flat-tappet that was close to the ZZ3/4 cam - figured I'd better play it safe and go the compu-cam route).

The message is I sort of fell into this combo, it wasn't exactly planned this way from the beginning. But, I did do my homework along the way. It turned out better than I wanted to let myself imagine. How you would fare with a 350 and 305 heads - don't really know. Mix in a different cam - even less sure.

Oh, the TH400 Sat Nite Special in the '57 stalls at 2200 with the 396. Not sure where a TH700 SNS would stall with the combo you're considering, but I would guess about 500-600 over stock. It does vary from engine to engine, depending upon the torque curve.

 

The Sat night special I have/ had in the camaro was a solid cam, I know they make tq converts with the same lable, I should more specific. Pt# on that cam kit is 1109882-1, adv duration 288/296, 536/.554 lift. Not a street cam by any means and I dont suggest it for anyone unless they are planning on ripping an{}s at the track like I was, I wanted the plastic trophy and the $50 .


"What needs to be clear here is that, as always, it's "The Package". It all has to work together, or even one piece can mess the whole thing up."
5.7.


This is very much true! Thats why most guys here will give a conservitive suggestion on part selection unless they have had first hand experiance with a setup that close to what the person is doing. The Camaro had/has a Tork master 2400 (yes thats spelled correctly) and it stalled about 1850rpm infront of a B&M TH400 and this was fine for the setup both cams although I should have used a 3000+ stall converter with the soild cam.

The 58cc heads wont hold you back especially since your getting larger valves, you are still geting the larger valves right? Choose your cam then your converter, summit has a fairly good how to pick a cam/converter in thier mag but its not a bible many factors can increase/ decrease the needed stall converter.

SSC

 

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I am having the valves put in the heads.

Ben

 

Oh, and SSC I noticed that you remember me asking other questions a while back and it may seem like this is taking me a long time. Well it is. I had to fix my other car because it broke down so that was some of the money I was going to use. Now that I have my cough f*rd thunderbird turbocoupe runing I am concentrating on my real car. I am buying a 3.45 borg warner rear with disk brakes on it. Well there went more of my engine money. I decided that while my car is in the garage not being driven to go all out, well as much as I can being as I am still in school and working and so forth. I already had the tranny rebuilt and put a shift kit in it. I have a corvette servo I am going to put in it. I put a megashifter in it(I got this for free as part of another deal) I am putting hooker long tubes and dual exhaust on it and going with a new cam. It currently has a rv cam in it and I am trying to find out what I want. I am also going to be putting a torque converter in it. Over all this is going to take me probably a few more months but it will be worth it. Oh, also I got IROC swaybars and wonderbar for it and am going to get a polygraphite front end kit for it. I am also having sub frame connectors put on it(those would have already been done if my 305 had not died. And to think I ended up doing all of this because my 305 died. I think the reason I am doing so much instead of just getting it running comes from the deep down anguish I got from having a sportscar that that could not roast the tires from a dead stop any better than the chirp from first to second.

Ben