Hi All:

I was thinking of Upgrading my GM Stock Radiator to an Aluminum Radiator for the 305 5.0 Liter 4 Barrel Carb Engine. I believe the Stock GM Radiator is a 2-Row Radiator, can anyone confirm this ?? Also, I am looking for a Direct Fit Aluminum Radiator that fits the Stock Location with No Modification at all.

Has anyone Upgraded there Radiator and provide some Feedback and Recommendations ?

 

Hi,
I believe the stock radiator is one row, I can be wrong. I have the same engine as you and am in the process of converting to the Champion aluminum 2 row. I was thinking of the three row, but I think its an overkill for a normal engine.

Louis

 

Just get a METAL stock replacement and toss out the one with plastic sides...... IMO: anything more is just "overkill for a normal engine".

 

How is it "overkill" when these cars are notorious for running hot?

I'm getting a Champion 2-row for mine. I saw a video on YouTube (by klowny1969) installing one, and the only modification required was trimming the rubber mounts on top...

 

If you need a 3 row radiator to cool motor under 200hp... the radiator isn't the issue.

 

Yeah, it's overkill because the radiator isn't the reason it runs those temps.

Lots of folks on here making way more horsepower and cooling it with a stock-style radiator. Nothing wrong with "upgrading" to aluminum tanks if the composite tanks make you nervous.

 

I agree about the 3-row. I was just referring to upgrading from stock (like the 2-row I'm planning to get)...

 

From my perspective,... Here's why: Take a look at 1985blktransams' car again;





Just my experience that a stock LG4 in a Camaro doesn't require anything "extra" when it comes to a radiator to run at the proper temps without overheating. A plastic radiator would probably be fine for his ride,.... but if a replacement radiator is what he wants I think the metal tank is a better idea over the plastic tanks. Overheating Thirdgens are usually caused by a Firebird that's missing it's fairings, or some hacker "fix" to a non-working electric fan. (" why replace the relay ?? I'll just wire is direct and it will run all the time and I don't have to worry about it" ---> then the fuse and under-grade "HOT" wiring they tapped into burns up/melts because of the excessive load. ) The only Camaro I've ever owned and driven that ever overheated was running a 355ci Goulen engine making 350 HP with a stock radiator and clutch fan. ( That thing would go from 180 to 230 after only a minute or 2 of hard driving; clutch fan was replaced with adjustable electric fans after about 2 weeks ! ) EVERY other Thirdgen Camaro I ever owned or rebuilt/ restored with a "basic" 350 or 305 ( WAY over a dozen, includes a few Trans Ams too ) had a stock radiator and NONE of them ever overheated; ALL were used radiators and most were plastic.

As stated earlier, this is MY OPINION,...... Maybe you're experience is different.

 

Thanks for the many opinions, this helps me make a good determination on which way to go. I did not add in my Original Post, but the 305 5.0 Liter is not all Stock, Upgrades include a CAM Kit, includes Rockers, Springs, Retainers Ect, 4 Barrel Carb was Re-Built for better Performance, Larger Catback Exhaust system. These Cars run Hot, been really working on these issues with Mechanic who worked for Pontiac. Things that have helped was the Coolant, Converted to Evans Waterless Coolant and a Robert Shaw High Flow 195 Thermostat. My Trans Am is an early version, no Electric Fans here, Fan Driven and Clutch Fan only, has been recently replaced as well with GM parts. So I figured a Radiator Upgrade could not hurt at this point.

Since these cars are becoming more collectable every year, I really try to maintain the Stock Appearance in every upgrade that I do except for those you do not see.

Thanks

 

If you are going to get one and you want a true direct fit radiator - the only one I've found is the DeWitt's. The online vendors (including DeWitt's own site) don't always have the correct picture but here is a post with pics. As you can see the radiator has the upper and lower mounting tabs in order to use the factory style rubber mounting ears. They are also 100% USA made:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...-pictures.html

https://www.dewitts.com/products/1982-92-camaro

The 1249006A part number is black with the auto trans cooler. If you want stock appearance and the best quality and fit - this is the only option I know of.

GD

 

I agree. GM forgot to add grilles to the front of Firebirds and Trans Ams. Camaros have grilles. It does make a difference.
Look at the pic of the engine compartment above. It is so packed, where is the air supposed to go after it flows through the radiator core?

 

Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for, DeWitt's Radiators looks really well built. The trans Cooler is a plus and this will really help cool things off in my TA. Is the GM Stock Radiator a 2 Row as well ? Just curious I guess. Its great ithat DeWitt Radiators comes in Black, easy install plus the advantages of a new aluminum radiator that should make a big difference in these these cars

Thank You very much GD for this !!

Robert

 

I think the stock thirdgen radiator is a single row...

 

From what I have seen they can be either but it really doesn't matter. The single row units just have double-wide tubes. The double row units have two rows of half-width tubes. They work pretty much the same.

I prefer not to have plastic radiator tanks. Seen too many crack, blow out, and the crimps fail. And I run a couple of birds so yeah I understand the lack of airflow and cooling.

GD

 

I think they're a single row radiator. I put in a 4 row radiator (price was same as 3 row) and can say that it required modification despite summitracing saying it was a direct fit. wouldnt go any larger than 3 row.

 

Hi, I installed a new Champion two row in my firebird over the weekend. It fits perfectly. The only mod I had to do was to cut down the bottom rubber pads.

I am very happy with it and highly recommend this upgrade.
Louis

 

Only the bottom pads?...

 

Hi TL, yes just the bottom pads, No problem with the top pads. Fits perfect and the engine never gets over 175 - 180.

louis

 

I think airflow is the biggest issue with these cars. My factory single 15 inch electric fan with not much of a shroud could not cool my swapped car and I consistently saw temps reaching 230's at idle. Might be ok with GM but too warm for my taste. I replaced my factory radiator simply because it was 34 years old and was afraid of a failure while on the road. I installed a Champion 3 row aluminum radiator on my IROC two months ago and only modded the bottom pads. The top plastic supports fit perfectly on the passenger side but the driver's side will not sit flat (no big deal) on the radiator. The addition of a high quality dual 12 inch electric fan setup from Flex A Lite made the biggest difference IMO. Yesterday I idled my car for over an hour in the south Texas heat and saw temps mostly around 180 sometimes below that, oh and my AC has never blown colder since the addition of this setup.

 

Arnold, that problem with the top plastic support is that they came from the factory a little bent. There should be a small tab sticking out from the support on the drivers side.

I had this same problem. If you have the little tab, just attach a zip tie to the tab and down around the neck of the top hose and pull it down.

Louis

 

Thanks I’ll take a look.

 

I also have a Champion American Eagle 2-row. I only needed to trim the bottom pads to accommodate the thicker radiator and just left out the top pads. The top of the radiator only touches the plastic hold down, which isn't particularly rigid, so it's no big deal. You could probably just use some kind of substitute for the bottom and keep your original pads, like split heater hose. But I don't know if the mechanical fan setup would cause issues though since the all aluminum radiators are thicker. Might be better off with getting a standard replacement?

I didn't really see a huge difference from a stock replacement radiator at the Champion 2 row, but it definitely did cool a little better. In retrospect, I should have added more fan CFM as the aftermarket replacement Taurus fan I have doesn't seem to flow as much as I thought. The OEM Ford ones seem much better from what I've read.

I wonder what operating temps that fan clutch is set up for. I know the later ones have pretty high "normal" temps. GM set them up for operating between 195-235ish degrees, with 220 being "normal". The stock electric fan triggers (both the cylinder head switches and the ECM) are at fairly high temps which is why they run hot. However, the stock electric fans are horrific as they have no shroud, but apparently they suffice with a stock engine for stock temps. Not sure how well the mechanical fan setup worked in these cars. At least it looks like they got a shroud?

One thing that helped my car quite a bit, both engine cooling and AC effectiveness, was to take some foam and fill the gaps between the radiator and core support so that the air has no choice but to pass through the condenser and radiator. This also stops it from recirculating as much "used" hot air from the engine bay. I also filled the gap between the radiator and condenser to further help the AC. I used the large square stuff meant to fill the gaps around a through-wall home AC. Didn't fill the bottom though because I didn't want it to hold water. I wonder if there are some excessive air gaps between the shroud and radiator on your setup? That would cause the fan to circulate engine bay air instead of only pulling new air through the radiator.