I started a new topic because I didnt want to highjack The "Auto-Prom" thread with the following questions.

Ok, 1st, I downloaded the WBo2 hac version of AUJP1350.bin

If I had the WB sensor, would it just replace the narrow band o2 ?

What else would I need to complete the job?

Will the sensor work with Datamaster, showing actual real-time air/fuel ratio's ? If not, is there another ALDL program that will do that?

Does it work like how in DFI you can command an air/fuel ratio?

 

No, it doesn't replace the narrowband. The autoprom doesn't allow it to replace the narrowband either. This simply allows you to record the true AFR via a scanning program (Datamaster, Diacom, etc). This is extremely helpful because you can see all engine parameters side by side with the true WB AFR.

You need to build the box that controls the sensor or else buy a WB O2 kit like the innovative motorsports kit that comes with a box. You then need to follow the directions on Mike's page and route the Vout to the specific spare pin on the ECM he mentions. This is not just a simple 'box' that could eventually be ruled out. It controls functions like the heater going to the sensor among other things.

Yes, it works with datamaster. Mike pushes the AFR value to the AFR placeholder in the ALDL ... that means that it works with any program that can access the ALDL data. Unfortunately, datamaster only displays the actual calculated AFR in the newest beta version that you can download from their site. The other version shows the Raw value that has to be modified to get the actual AFR. Diacom shows the real AFR. Not sure about Moates. Below is a screenshot from my 11.6 run as shown in the newest beta version of datamaster. The black line is the AFR and it is the actual AFR from the wideband.

BTW - cool deal on starting a new thread instead of hijacking the autoprom thread.

Tim

 

Doesnt the wb kit have a display to show AFR ?

Next, if I wanted to hook up the I. M. kit I would still need to add a pin to the ECM right?

Would I still need the AUJP wide band hac .bin in order for datamaster to dispaly wb AFR ?

Also, is the newest beta of Datamaster calculating AFR via the narrow band? If so, that cant be that accurate right?

 

Depends on what you buy. The Innovative kit has a display. The DIY kit is a build it yourself display. The aussie kit means you have to spend more money and buy the display. IMHO, displays suck anyhow. You can't correlate it to kPA and RPM so what's the point?

Sarcasm added for dramatic effect ...
What in the world would make you think that you didn't have to run the wide band BIN or that you wouldn't have to pin the Wide Band into the ECM? Seriously Mike. C'Mon.

The actual ECM code is based on achieving a particular AFR. For example, at cruise in closed loop the ECM is trying to achieve 14.7:1. Well, at WOT it also is trying to achieve a particular AFR. This has been covered many many times on this board. In any case - there is a parameter in the ALDL output that is pushed to any scanning program called AFR. This AFR is the AFR that the ECM is shooting for. It has nothing to do with the narrowband O2 sensor. It is just an AFR that is used for calculations to determine pulse width. Do a search on AFR, etc and you'll find more stuff than you can imagine. To make a long story short, Mike just replaced the ECM's calculated AFR value in the ALDL datastream with the Wideband O2 value.

Tim

 

Ok, now the wheels are turning a bit !


A couple more:

Where do I go to get parts and schematics to build the DIY WBo2 box and directions to pin it into the ECM?

Is it hard to make? (I dont really understand electronic circuitry diagrams that well)

I can get the Honda WBo2 sensor for like 125 bucks, so how much would the rest of the setup cost to make?


I'm starting to think that this is the way to go. It will save me $$$ from not having to take the car to the dyno to get the actual WB AFR's. Pretty cool stuff! Hell, once this is working on my car, there wont be that much need at all to goto a DFI setup!

Mike

 

OK, Now I'm confused. You mean to tell me that the AFR value that Datamaster shows when NOT using the WB AUJP Hac is NOT the actual O2 sensor reading? And that WITH the WB hac, the value that is displayed is the ACTUAL reading from the sensor. If what I'm saying is correct, then it has got to be just a simple change in the hack to make it pump the actual reading from the stock narrowband sensor to the the ALDL stream. Or am I just wayy off base here?

Scott

 

I just seen a pic of the board! There's no way in hell I can build that!

Does anyone offer the wb box (built and completed)?

 

I've tried ordering that DIY-WB board from this link: http://208.37.117.207/wborder.html just recently (month or so?), and I havent heard back. Are there any other methods to get these boards?

 

Thats odd, I just bought 2 parts kits.. took about 3 weeks..

Try again, or holler at Grumpy, he may have one, or he can holler thru different channels.

BW

 

The email address listed for the parts kit is different than the board. The parts kit contact is wbparts [at] midsouth.rr.com, whereas the board order form contact is wideband [at] tecmark.com. I'll try ordering the boards again and see what happens.

Well, I couldnt order. It said "Oops, you have already ordered boards" or something like that. I'll try to contact Grumpy. Thanks for the info.

 

Yes, that is correct. I think we are going to need a FAQ With regard to the AUJP/ANHT:

First - the ECM has a target AFR that it is trying to achieve.

Only at stoichiometric (14.7:1) is the ECM trying to manipulate the pulse width via input from the stock narrowband O2 sensor in order to achieve it's target AFR (14.7:1). That means that it is only when the AFR reads 14.7:1 that the ECM is using the O2 sensor to try to achieve that AFR.

Otherwise...

Any ECM target AFRs that are not 14.7:1 takes the ECM out of learn mode and the O2 sensor is ignored with regard to making pulse width adjustments.

Thus, at WOT the AFR value is basically useless. You're just seeing what the ECM's target is ... which in almost every case is way off from the actual.

You're way off base because narrowbands are only accurate around 14.7:1 so it's not a simple case of looking at the narrowband mV and matching it up to a table of mV vs. AFR.

Tim

 

So in other words, the only way to tune WOT is with a wide-band otherwise you're pissing in the wind?

 

Well googling for a spark plug reading chart, and getting a lighted magnifying glass and learning how to "read" plugs will also help with WOT tuning.

 

I'm gonna chime in with one of the most important things I've learned here for tuning WOT:

1. You MUST have a way to measure your actual performance
2. You MUST read plugs and understand what to look for.
3. A WBO2 is an excelent tool to have, and it will assist you greatly, but never forget #1&2!

Does this sound about right?

 

ROTFLMAOJHMS

 

?????????????????????????

 

nevermind...

 

I guess I'm just still a little in the dark on how to tune PE or WOT with just using the heated 3 wire narrow band o2 and datamaster.

I can read the plugs somewhat decent, I just dont want to hurt the motor by making the wrong changes to PE etc... (dont want to be too lean etc..)

 

I can tell you that my WB has been down for over a year and has not really assisted any of my gains.
It confirmed that I am in a safe range but....
When is the last time you seen a carb guy tuning at the track with a wideband? They are great tools , but by no means a have to have tool.
Start rich - then work your way lean while monitoring Knock, Mph at the track and Plugs to a degree.
But unless you are running race fuel then plug reading can be a guessing game - but will still let you know if you are overly lean or rich.
Procharger says to actually read the threads of a plug, they want to see 2-3 threads down covered by carbon (but thats pretty rich)