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Tuning with the EBL

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Old 06-22-2017, 01:12 PM   #4301
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Re: EBL SFI-6

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuningnewb View Post
I've used EBL Flash for a year or two with pretty decent results, having no prior experience with tuning. Now I'm the new owner of a 84 Buick Regal Turbo. I think the car is running rich as its only getting about 17 MPG on the highway with a very light foot.

I need to buy a data logger. Then I was thinking instead of dropping 250 bucks on a data logger and then still having no way to make any adjustment, maybe I just step up and get EBL SFI 6, so I can log and tune as needed.

I haven't seen many posts in this thread from Turbo Buick tuners.

- Do the Buick guys use a different board/forum?
- Is there anything different I'd need to know about in using SFI6 over EBL FLASH?
- Does SFI 6 come with a sample/stock bin files specifically for a Turbo Buick to get me started?
You will want to use the EBL SFI-6 over the EBL Flash. The SFI-6 system retains the sequential fuel injection along with having more support for boost. Even has alcohol injection control and wategate control.

To use it in your car will need to re-pin the two connectors into three. We carry the 3rd connector and will supply the re-pin guide. You can add an IAT but it isn't required. The hot air cars didn't have one.

Not sure how much boost you are pushing but can use either a 2-bar (to 15 psi) or a 3-bar (to 30 psi) MAP sensor. The MAF sensor is no longer used.

There is one supplied BIN with the EBL SFI-6, it is from a Turbo Buick (intercooled).

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Old 06-27-2017, 04:09 AM   #4302
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Ok I have a few more questions, I was going to start a new thread but since this is EBL FLASH related I figured I'd post it here......

I'm starting a new tune from basically scratch, I was given a bin to start with by a fellow member with a fairly similar combo but I need to make it more my own. Here's my specs and how I'd like to run it....
EBL FLASH with the port mod
Zeitronix ZT2 wideband
383 LT1 running a standard distributor
195cc heads with 2.00/1.60 valves
XFI280 camshaft with 1.6 rockers
LS7 lifters
Hurricane EFI Intake with 36lb Bosch 3 injectors
Ported 454 TBI unit (750cfm) running sans injector pod (dry)
Dyno Don 1 3/4 shorties 2.5 Y into 3.5 single exhaust
Edge 3600 stall with 3:42 gears

Car weighs about 2830 with me in it and a full tank of gas

There's no EGR, CCP

I'd prefer to run in open loop as I've had success with it before but I can't remember how to set it up. I really want to get this tune as close as possible before I even fire this engine. I know I will still have to adjust 'VE and what not but I don't want to burn a fresh engine. Any help would be awesome
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:45 AM   #4303
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

To run open loop set the closed loop enable CTS high: Closed Loop - CTS Threshold

As far as to what to do with the BIN, hard to say as it has already been modified. At a minimum it would be good to try and get the injector compensation values to plug in.

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Old 06-28-2017, 08:19 PM   #4304
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Ok next question. I'm having a problem with communication from the EBL to the laptop. I have an insignia us to serial adapter and have the drivers for it to run. For some reason the EBL isn't talking to the laptop. I've tried setting the comport to comm1 and I have nothing
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:18 AM   #4305
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Use the Device Manager to see which COM port is assigned to the cable:

http://dynamicefi.com/USB2SerialSetup.php

With that cable using the Prolific chip-set, it may work OK, it may work intermittently, or may not work at all.

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Old 06-29-2017, 02:56 PM   #4306
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

I got it working so here's to hoping lol
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:51 PM   #4307
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Next question is I'm trying to set the initial advance. My cam has 236 degrees of duration. The tune I was sent had an initial advance of 10 degrees. Since the engine hasn't been run yet should I start with an initial advance of 0 in the tune to start? The cam has a 4 degree advance built into it. Should I set the initial advance to 4 in the tune and go from there?
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:40 AM   #4308
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

The cam timing and initial SA are not directly connected.

The purpose of the "SA - Initial SA" is to compensate for the base distributor timing. For proper spark timing they need to match. The ECM subtracts out the initial SA value, with the physical position of the distributor relative to TDC adds it back.

With that cam using an initial advance of 10* is reasonable. This is due to the engine cranking at the base timing. So leave it at 10* in the calibration.

And once the engine is running and up to temperature, with an open EST/BYPASS connector set the distributor base timing to the same 10* BTDC.

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Old 07-08-2017, 09:22 PM   #4309
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Hey guys,
I'm new here. I have a 1986 el camino 4.3 v6. Can I use a msd probillet distributor with the dynamic efi EBI ECM?
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:43 AM   #4310
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

As long as it is a direct replacement for the stock computer controlled distributor, yes, it will work. To be honest, I'm not sure why one would want to. The stock GM distributors are very good. If anything make sure to use a GM AC Delco ICM.

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Old 07-09-2017, 10:11 AM   #4311
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Thanks
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:19 AM   #4312
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

MSD told me they have no direct replacement for my HEI stock distributor(1984 TBI 350).

My stock works just fine with Delco module and Accel Blaster coil. Pick up is 30+ years old
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:02 PM   #4313
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

So I have a question, when looking at my wideband info on the WUD it's reading different than what my gauge reads. If the WUD says 12.3 the gauge reads 11.6. Do I need to calibrate my wideband? I have a Zeitronix ZT2 wideband and controller....

Edit...nevermind I figured it out. I had it set on the wrong Zeitronix option. I set it to the non linear and it works dine

Last edited by robertfrank; 07-14-2017 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:54 PM   #4314
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

In tuning my new set up, pre boost, I am hitting 100% ve in some areas while doing ve learns, those areas on the table are showing very lean on my WB. What is the best approach to over come this issue? My last set up put me over 100% and I tuned it out with lowering my injector sizing, and then compensating for that on the VE table.... wondering if there is a better method?


thanks
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:18 AM   #4315
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Do the same, set the injector flow rate lower. Keep an eye on the injector duty cycle (DC%) and the fuel pressure.

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Old 07-24-2017, 05:21 PM   #4316
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBob View Post
Do the same, set the injector flow rate lower. Keep an eye on the injector duty cycle (DC%) and the fuel pressure.

RBob.

thanks RBob.


Sounds good. Injectors are 62lbs, DC is only about 50%, fuel pressure holding well at 45-48.
I will lower the injector rate by about 15%. I cant remember now what I did to compensate for the increase in ve when I last did it. Do I simply lower the good areas on throughout the table by the same 15%? Is this the correlation between ve values and injector flow rates?
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:14 AM   #4317
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

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Originally Posted by gbayfisher View Post
I will lower the injector rate by about 15%. I cant remember now what I did to compensate for the increase in ve when I last did it. Do I simply lower the good areas on throughout the table by the same 15%? Is this the correlation between ve values and injector flow rates?
That works.

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Old 07-25-2017, 08:55 AM   #4318
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

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Originally Posted by RBob View Post
That works.

RBob.
Can you modify the code to allow for VE above 100% ?

-- Joe
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:37 AM   #4319
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Quote:
Originally Posted by anesthes
Can you modify the code to allow for VE above 100% ?

-- Joe
He could, but chose not to as it being a standard for the system due to a buyers inexperience...
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:10 PM   #4320
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Ok so I'm having some DFCO issues. When I'm letting off the throttle I'm running PIG rich. Like 11.3 rich. How do I pull that back some?
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:56 PM   #4321
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Not a decel fuel cut off (DFCO) issue, that is when the fuel is completely cut off.

Look at the RPM and MAP and reduce the VE tables in those areas. Be careful to not go too lean as that can cause mis-fire and/or surging.

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Old 07-31-2017, 08:16 AM   #4322
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

You may be in OL at zero throttle? There is a flag to enable OL at idle/zero T. Some rich is expected as vac pulls all the fuel off the intake runner/TB.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:26 AM   #4323
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

I am tuning in open loop yes
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:44 PM   #4324
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Are you using the WB to make changes in fueling tables?
Prior build I was OL idle to 20 MPH but would go CL(NB) at 21 MPH. Motor liked OL 0-21 as CL at that MPH seemed lean and less responsive when driving normally. adding AE did not help. Now I am port fuel and drivability is so much better.
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:28 PM   #4325
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

I am using the wideband yes. I am also running port fueling as well. I seem to be having issues with the 'VE learns. I was running the smoothing factor at 5 but I switched it down to 1. The car seems to fatten up big time once it warms up. Do I adjust the OL- AFR multiplier vs CTS table to compensate?
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:36 PM   #4326
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Also, I'm still working on my timing tables. I haven't loaded these in yet but I wanted you guys to look at them and tell me your thoughts. I'm trying to keep then as smooth and linear as possible.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:26 AM   #4327
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

I used stock tables for coolant. Same on IAT. No issues. Again I am CL NB sensor. Did you enlean the VE tables as of yet?
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:29 AM   #4328
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

I did and it helped a touch but I think I might be having an issue with my coolant temp sensor. For some reason it and the temp gauge aren't reading the same. The gauge will be around 180 and the CTS will read much cooler, like 120. I'm thinking that will also cause the rich conditions I'm getting
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:28 AM   #4329
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Are there two coolant sensors? One for the gauge and another for the ECU?
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:18 PM   #4330
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

How fast should the O2 sensors be transitioning back and forth when I look at the O2 signal in the Whats up Display.

I get the feeling that I'm swinging too slow. My O2 sensor output during cruise looks more like a rounded square wave with transitions every 1-1.5 seconds or so. I'll get a screenshot next time Im in the truck.

Just curious.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:17 AM   #4331
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
You may be in OL at zero throttle? There is a flag to enable OL at idle/zero T. Some rich is expected as vac pulls all the fuel off the intake runner/TB.
Is there any benefit to running off-idle zero throttle/DE in CL, or is it even possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertfrank View Post
I did and it helped a touch but I think I might be having an issue with my coolant temp sensor. For some reason it and the temp gauge aren't reading the same. The gauge will be around 180 and the CTS will read much cooler, like 120. I'm thinking that will also cause the rich conditions I'm getting
Afaik the CTS value is filtered by the ECM, so it will lag behind some. There's a filtering or smoothing factor somewhere in the calibration (TunerPro). Although, 180 and 120 seem a bit far off.. Is that in stationary conditions or while it's warming up?
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:46 AM   #4332
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericc View Post
How fast should the O2 sensors be transitioning back and forth when I look at the O2 signal in the Whats up Display.

I get the feeling that I'm swinging too slow. My O2 sensor output during cruise looks more like a rounded square wave with transitions every 1-1.5 seconds or so. I'll get a screenshot next time Im in the truck.

Just curious.
These two threads have good information regarding your question. Has screenshots showing good & bad O2 crossings along with how to tune it in:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...int-delay.html (Prp gains and INT delay in EBL)
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...tant-hard.html (EBL P4 intermittant hard warm starts with incorrect sensor readings)

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Old 08-12-2017, 06:50 PM   #4333
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

I'm running the EBL Flash and installing the TT-1 Wideband. I was planning on removing the NB and just running the WB but reading through the posts, it seems this is not a good idea if I want to run CL. Is this correct?

I do not plan on running both at the same time so I will pull the NB and tune with the WB then put the NB back in and go CL. Orange wire out of TT-1 will go to terminal 0 inside EBL. Should I hook up purple wire to the NB input to the EBL or somewhere else?

Scott
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:45 PM   #4334
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

hi folks,

as this is the ebl thread here goes.

I have a super ram intake on a 5.7 , AFR 180 cc heads a comp 264 can with 1.6 rr ,
slp 1 5\8 ss shorty headers . I purchased the ebl and am very happy with it , i am not a expert or very good tuner but am trying.
i am currently trying to get the ve tables in line, i have been doing WB learns ( innovate)
and as a result the ve tables are not perfect smooth but the car runs very well. then i enable the BLM learns and the learning removes fuel to the point that the WB starts to show lean and the BLM is low showing rich , it will progress to the point that the car will surge and stall at low speed ex parking lot or reversing.

I currently have the EGR\AIR\CCP all disabled. today i tried to enable the egr , and as such the BLM rose to the mid 130's , then i tried the CCP enable..... the moment that CCP function turned on the car lost all power and just nosed over....never stalled but it felt as if the fuel was shut off for a second, the car was undrivable.

so i returned home disabled the EGR\CCP function in the bin and tried a WB learn... i was floored the WB was adding 12-15 percent according to the WUD. after a few WB learns the car is now back to a perfect idle and smooth operation, but im frustrated, i retained all my emission equip and really would like to run the EGR and CCP and AIR . i have been working with rbob on this but i thought it would be good to post here in case any one else has been dealing with the same issue.

When the WB does the learns it adds fuel like crazy ... car runs good...... when the BLM does the learns it pulls fuel in all the same places and the car end up running lean and i have problems. any help or direction would be greatly appreciated , thx sean
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:10 AM   #4335
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helrazzor View Post
I'm running the EBL Flash and installing the TT-1 Wideband. I was planning on removing the NB and just running the WB but reading through the posts, it seems this is not a good idea if I want to run CL. Is this correct?

I do not plan on running both at the same time so I will pull the NB and tune with the WB then put the NB back in and go CL. Orange wire out of TT-1 will go to terminal 0 inside EBL. Should I hook up purple wire to the NB input to the EBL or somewhere else?

Scott
The WB sensor needs to be at least 3 feet from the exhaust ports. Many times this isn't possible with the stock NB location.

Run the orange wire to terminal 0, leave the purple wire disconnected.

RBob.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:16 AM   #4336
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

[QUOTE=RBob;6160703]The WB sensor needs to be at least 3 feet from the exhaust ports. Many times this isn't possible with the stock NB location.

So as long as this is done, I can leave WB in and put EBL in CL mode and just switch back and forth whenever I need to tune?

Not hooking up purple wire will not throw a code will it?

Scott
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #4337
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

my car did that with the one wire nb sensor, changed it to a three wire sensor and it started to work fine.
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:16 PM   #4338
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Where does the P4 reduce timing under boost? I have timing in the tune to be pulled 6* at 3-5 psi , but i dont see timing pulled when im analyzing the data log. Still shows 30* at wot under 5 psi. Fyi , i am not detonating either.
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:16 PM   #4339
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

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Originally Posted by gbayfisher
Where does the P4 reduce timing under boost? I have timing in the tune to be pulled 6* at 3-5 psi , but i dont see timing pulled when im analyzing the data log. Still shows 30* at wot under 5 psi. Fyi , i am not detonating either.
Be sure that either your 2-Bar or 3-Bar Flag is set for the MAP sensor.
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Old Yesterday, 04:34 AM   #4340
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Engine: FIRST Tpi 383
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Re: Tuning with the EBL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal View Post
Be sure that either your 2-Bar or 3-Bar Flag is set for the MAP sensor.
Yes , def have that set. I just took a closer look , and just realized that I'm not pushing enough boost to get into the higher boost retard areas of the table.
lol. time to add more boost......
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