The short story is that I removed my Accel SuperRam and replaced it with a Holley SteathRam. Also, I swapped out the Ford 24#/hr injectors that were 12 years old and replaced them with Ford 30#/hr injectors.

One other item of note is that the HSR does not have provisions for the EGR. Another note is that the HSR manifold does not have a hole for the coolant sensor that is in the front of the intake manifold. This sensor has a fuel injector type connector,, so that connector is not plugged into anything. And long ago, I removed the 9th fuel injector business. I never run the 9th injector with the Accel SR.

I made the appropriate changes to the Eprom program for fueling and the missing EGR stuff (at least I think so). Now, the engine will barely run, running about 10.x:1 on my wideband and about 950mV on the factory narrow band. My old scanner shows that I am running an engine load of 180 to 190 when I am at 1200RPM just trying to keep the engine alive.

My car is an '87 MAF car: I am still running the factory ECM, however, with the '89 mask.

What to do? I simply dont understand why the ECM is thinking that the engine load factor is 180. This makes no sense to me. Details of my previous setup is in the sig below.

 

If your LV8 is at 180 at 1200 rpm, it suggests that your MAF flow is in the vicinity of 45 gm/sec.

Check the MAF readings to confirm, but that's alot of airflow, enough for roughly 50 hp. Somethings wrong mechanically if it needs that much air to idle.

Or your MAF calibration is way off.

 

In one snap shot from my ancient Autoxray 240: MAF = 71 gr/sec , RPM = 1666, O2 = 937mV, eng load = 208, manifold air temp = 107*F, inj pulse = 4.3msec, spark = 23.8*, TPS = 0.90V, coolant temp = 124*F.

One more tidbit about my car: I am running my MegaMAF. Its a factory MAF electronic guts cemented into a 3.5" aluminum tube. This MegaMAF was calibrated with my Accel SR on board. Could the HSR cause such a change in the calibration? I am fully open to re-calibrating the MegaMAF if that makes this thing run right.

So, since the engine is running pig rich, to solve this issue by recalibrating the MAF, I would lower the values in the 6 MAF tables. But I think that I will lower the six scalars, instead.

 

I can see your MAF causing alittle bit of that. I had to change a few of my table 1 and 2 values for the HSR swap then even more when i went 383 with a big cam.

The larger MAF tube with its greater air capacity could compound that problem much more than a stocker.

What does your tables look like currently? I have a table for a 3.5" maf that worked well for my 383 HSR

Then again, i'm not sure the motor would be running that much different from superram to HSR at low rpms.

really? what HSR do you have, mine has one Do you atleast have the boss for it? you could drill/tap it for that sensor

 

Orr: You are everywhere. Thanks for the help.
I purchased an HSR 7540 from Summit Racing. In the front of the manifold are three threaded holes, as expected. However, 2 are 1/2" pipe thread and the third hole fits the threads of the other two prong sensor (I'm brain dead right now, I cant think of that sensor). Anyway one of the two 1/2" pipe threaded holes is for the coolant going to the black plastic switchee box (hows that for a name). The coolant sensor that has the fuel injector connector does not fit the 1/2" pipe threaded hole. Go figure.

Thesix MAF table scalars are: 1F, 40, 6F, B4, FF, and FF. As you might notice, I hit the 255 barrier in table 5. But it work great. The MegaMAF has 38% more flow area than the factory MAF, so I simply made an increase of 38% on the six MAF scalars. It worked out great from the beginning. But now, I am going back 20% on the scalar values because I am getting way too much fuel.

 

Try that. I havent looked at my tables but i can tell you i increased my tables much more than 38% even tho my flow area went up less than that I figure i went from 600-700 ish cfm to 900+ cfm and i had to increase my scalars and tables alot.

All motors will be different but give it what it likes and go from there. Tune by that wideband till it runs good.

As far as the coolant sensors, i have 2. One is for the gauge i think, coolant temp sendor. The other is CTS, coolant temp sensor which is for the ECM i think. CTS fits the manifold and does not have a fuel injector type plug. The other is in the driver side cylinder head.

If all else fails you may beable to splice in a 89 type CTS that will fit that manifold

 

For the coolant sensors, you have to have the one that goes to the ECM (the CTS). By reading through the thread it sounds like it is in place. If it wasn't you would also have a SES light and code for it.

The CTS is important for the fueling as the ECM uses it for the commanded AFR along with when to go closed loop.

The coolant sensor with the fuel injector type of connector sounds like it is for the cold start injector. No need for it when using mask $6E (the '89 MY mask). So don't worry about that one.

Just to cover ther bases, did you change the injector flow constant in the calibration for the larger injectors?

For the MAF, it may be that the differences in the intake manifolds caused a difference in how/where the air flows through the MAF. There may also be a difference in the un-metered air that is flowing into the intake. A change here will change the apparent MAF callibration.

RBob.

 

Thank you for the replies you guys.

Remember, my car is originally an '87, so I did have the 9th cold start injector, which I had to remove when I installed the Accel SR back in 1999. The SuperRam had no provisions for the cold start injector. So the coolant sensor with the fuel injector connector is not needed, that is what someone else had said. And BTW: I have the driver side temp sensor mounted near cylinder #1.

I reduced the MAF scalar values so that they are 12.5% above that of the factory values. The factory was 17, 30, 53, 87, CF, FF... Now I have 1A, 35, 6E, 96, E7, FF. In doing this, I discovered that I did not figure the correct scalars for the MegaMAF when I went up to 38% more calibration. One scalar was only 14% larger than factory, so I messed that up and never realized it until last nite.

I "burned" a new Eprom with the above scalars and started the engine. The engine ran better but is still a little rough. I was finally able to get out of the drivers seat and check things over. I hear a ticking sound back near #6 and #8. I cant tell whether its a rocker arm or its the fuel injectors, or maybe I have a loose bolt in the header (again).
I did a scan and have the following data: MAF = 37 gr/sec, PW = 4.2 mS, spark = 21.0*, man air temp = 75.2*, eng load = 186, O2 = 976 mV (wideband 10.x), RPM = 949, TPS 0.60V, coolant temp = 111.2*F... The ECM was in closed loop at the time of the scan.

OK, another confession: I forgot to install the thermostat! How much effect is that going to have? I realize the engine will not warm up as fast.

And why is the engine load so high when the engine is running just off idle?

I am going to tighten the header bolts and remove the valve covers and inspec the rocker arms for adjustment.

What else can I do or check?

 

Doc, I'm tied up here until next weekend, but if you need it I can swing up and help. The shoe can be on the other foot this time.

I'll bring my Autoprom and we can real time datalog and tune the car, just like we did on mine. Using a wideband will help greatly. After I met with you last year, I had my fueling 90% correct in a matter of days with my equipment.

I think being able to datalog and make real-time changes will help immensely. Let me know...

 

1MeanZ: its great to hear from you. Check my info!!! I lost my job at Ford during their salary cut back last July, and I found a good job working at the Kennedy Space Center, on rockets. So, I have moved to Mims, Florida since we saw each other at Milan dragstrip. In oder to find me these days, you have to travel South on I75 for about 1,200 miles. You are welcome in Florida anytime. Anyway thanks for the offer, much appreciated.

 

LOL!!!! Woah! I didn't even see that! Well I guess I can't zip up I75 to come see you very easily now can I? Hope you're loving Florida, beats the heck out of winters up here thats for sure. Also, congrats on the new job! Did you take your LS1 car down with you too?

Anyway, I think you're on the right track with your MAF scalars. I highly recommend getting the Autoprom from moates. it really is a dream to work with. I think you'd be able to gather a lot more data in a shorter amount of time. As engineers many of us know, the better data you have, the better your decisions will be. Good Luck!

 

The load is high because of the high MAF readings. Load is approximately MAF flow * 4800/actual rpm.

Using your data as an example:

37 gm/sec * 4800 rpm/949 rpm = 187 as it should be.

I'd suggest checking the vacuum at idle to see if it correlates with the high airflow and high load as reported by the MAF. My guess is that your vacuum level is also reduced significantly.

 

1MeanZ: Florida is great; I moved down here three days before Christmas and celebrated my first Christmas in shorts!!!!! OK, no more rubbing it in.

tequilaboy: Thanks for the info. I am going to burn another Eprom back to the factory MAF scalar values. It is hard for me to understand why that is necessary when I've swapped to the HSR from the ASR. And the vacuum; I think that I have a vacuum gauge, but I have not used it in over ten years. I am sure that it has worked its way to the very bottom of whatever drawer it is in!

 

Well, I burned an Eprom with the original factory MAF scalars. I also cut in half the OPEN LOOP %AFR table values, there are two of them. The engine started up run OK for 30 to 45 seconds, then started to break up real bad. I could not keep it running, and it dead. It seemed to me that the engine went very lean all of a sudden. I just dont get it!

 

I think you have either a couple of dead cylinders, fouled plugs, misfiring injectors, incorrect timing, possibly incorrect firing order, cylinders full of coolant or fuel, or excessive parasitic losses from one of the driven accessories.

Something (mechanical) is causing the excessive load. Just throwing ideas out.

Did you remove or loosen any rocker arms to pull off the SR?

 

I did not remove any rocker arms in removing the SR.

I pulled the passenger side valve covrs and checked the rockers and springs; I see no problems. I am goinh to pull the driver side valve cover , do a visual check, then pull the dizzy cap and retime the engine. I am going to find firing TDC. This will occur when the timing mark comes around to Zero timing, having both #1 valves closed, and the rockers on #6 are "rocking".

 

I confirmed that I am on firing #1 TDC and have a static timing of 8* advanced. I have confirmed that the valve train is in excellent working condition. I checked the resistance of all 8 fuel injector; they all read either 17.1 or 17.0 ohms.

Then I figured that there must be something wrong with my MegaMAF sensor. I swapped out to the factory setup and my last Eprom that I used with that MAF, and the engine runs great. I should feel great relief, but I am pissed off at myself for not figuring this out faster. So it came down to making all these MAF scalar changes, which ended up not making much change in the air flow reading from the MegaMAF. My engine load stayed very high which made no sense to me.

Now its time to go out onto the street and continue tuning.

 

so your custom MAF is bad? Do yo know what happened to it?

 

Yea, my pet project took a crapper. No, I have no idea whats wrong with it. I checked down the throat of the MAF, and the little sensing wires are all intake. Also, the pins are straight. So I conclude that it must be something inside the black box.

 

interesting. Glad to see its not a major tune or motor issue.

But dont be stressed to much, the stocker MAF descreened is good to over 400whp

Enjoy the stealth ram and report back with performance gains/etc

 

Yea, its actually a relief to discover that my MegaMAF took a crapper and not something else like a valve spring. I had the complete factory airlid/intake hose system ready to go on the shelf.

The engine runs great, and is very smooth, idle quality is excellent. At first the BLMs were around the low 140s, however, with a new Eprom where I bumped the MAF calibration by 10 to 12% in the 6 MAF tables over the factory values, the BLMs now are between 122 and 132 as I drive around in three or four fuel cells. Now its time to look at the WOT AFR.