Still not running good after TPI swap.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Still not running good after TPI swap.
Have a 87 TPI engine which is originally a stock Lg4 engine. Did a TPI swap 3 years ago and have tried to tune and find out what is causing the choppy idle problems.
Car is stalling when putting transmission in D. Have set the idle speed in Park to be about 1100RPM. When putting transmission in D the car stalls. Sometimes a slow increase of RPM appears so the car is not stalling and then stays in about 800-900RPM in D.
Any suggestions???
Engine have a cam with higher lift, headers and some small porting on the heads but have the same problem when engine was stock. The problem appeared after the TPI swap.
I am tuning with tunerpro and using a stock 89 305 TPI BIN for a AUTO transmission. The reason is that I wanted to eliminate the cold start injector and use the 6E in tunerpro.
Car is stalling when putting transmission in D. Have set the idle speed in Park to be about 1100RPM. When putting transmission in D the car stalls. Sometimes a slow increase of RPM appears so the car is not stalling and then stays in about 800-900RPM in D.
Any suggestions???
Engine have a cam with higher lift, headers and some small porting on the heads but have the same problem when engine was stock. The problem appeared after the TPI swap.
I am tuning with tunerpro and using a stock 89 305 TPI BIN for a AUTO transmission. The reason is that I wanted to eliminate the cold start injector and use the 6E in tunerpro.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,370
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Car: 1973 Datsun 240Z/ 1985 S-15 Jimmy
Engine: Turbo LX9/To be decided
Transmission: 5-speed/T-5
Axle/Gears: R200 3.90/7.5" 3.73
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
What MEMCAL are you using? What is your hardware set-up?
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,441
Likes: 1
From: sweden
Car: GTA -89
Engine: Blown 415"
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: Strange 12-bolt
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Whats your base timing set to?
Can you post your bin and log file ?
also list your setup (injectors size and so on)
/N.
Can you post your bin and log file ?
also list your setup (injectors size and so on)
/N.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
I am using a stock 305 memcal from a 88 Camaro that had Auto and 2.73 gears. I have installed a GP1 adapter from Moates so it is easy to change chips from there on. Could this actually be something like a bad memcal?
Whats your base timing set to?
My base timing was set to 6 degrees but I tried yesterday changing it to zero degrees (factory settings) but still the same. I did of course change the base timing in TunerPRO also when I did this.
Can you post your bin and log file ?
I will try to make a trip today and post a file. I got a problem last week that appeared also. I've got the LC1 wideband kit installed a couple of months ago. last week the car started to not go in to closed loop when light cruising and at idle. As soon as I give some gas the car goes in to closed loop mode. Any idea what could cause this??
I have double checked all the wiring and grounds and there are no cut wires or any bad connections at all. Could the sensor be dirty after 4 months of use???
also list your setup (injectors size and so on)
My setup is quite simple:
It is a 87 model 305 engine that was rebuilt 1 year ago by myself. I did change pistons, bearings, gaskets, piston rings, oil pump +++
I also did install a higher lift camshaft since I got the stock peanut cam.
I installed Hooker 2055HKR headers and did some minor porting to the heads. Then the TPI setup was installed back on. I also have a magnaflow catback exhaust system and a Eaton POSI unit with 3.42 gears on the rear end. As for the injectors I have some stock 19lb/hr injectors which have been cleaned and remanufactured.
I have also deleted the AIR pump, EGR and plugged the vacuum hole for the charcoal canister at the throttle body. I am still having the canister but I just run a hose down the fender with the fuel fumes.
/N.
My base timing was set to 6 degrees but I tried yesterday changing it to zero degrees (factory settings) but still the same. I did of course change the base timing in TunerPRO also when I did this.
Can you post your bin and log file ?
I will try to make a trip today and post a file. I got a problem last week that appeared also. I've got the LC1 wideband kit installed a couple of months ago. last week the car started to not go in to closed loop when light cruising and at idle. As soon as I give some gas the car goes in to closed loop mode. Any idea what could cause this??
I have double checked all the wiring and grounds and there are no cut wires or any bad connections at all. Could the sensor be dirty after 4 months of use???
also list your setup (injectors size and so on)
My setup is quite simple:
It is a 87 model 305 engine that was rebuilt 1 year ago by myself. I did change pistons, bearings, gaskets, piston rings, oil pump +++
I also did install a higher lift camshaft since I got the stock peanut cam.
I installed Hooker 2055HKR headers and did some minor porting to the heads. Then the TPI setup was installed back on. I also have a magnaflow catback exhaust system and a Eaton POSI unit with 3.42 gears on the rear end. As for the injectors I have some stock 19lb/hr injectors which have been cleaned and remanufactured.
I have also deleted the AIR pump, EGR and plugged the vacuum hole for the charcoal canister at the throttle body. I am still having the canister but I just run a hose down the fender with the fuel fumes.
/N.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Here is btw a CSV file on the trip I had yesterday. It is compressed in ZIP format so just unpack the file.
As you can see on this LOG file I am having troubles getting the car in closed loop. As soon as I start with light cruising or idling the car goes in to open loop, and as soon as I kick the gas pedal a little the closed loop mode enters again.
It seems like the oxygen sensor is not ready until it get's enough throttle.
As you can see on this LOG file I am having troubles getting the car in closed loop. As soon as I start with light cruising or idling the car goes in to open loop, and as soon as I kick the gas pedal a little the closed loop mode enters again.
It seems like the oxygen sensor is not ready until it get's enough throttle.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
From: OC CA
Car: 75 Beast
Engine: 383 +EBL Flash
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 4.11 with 33"
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Alex
I took a look at your csv file. What stands out right away is that your MAP voltage is almost constant 1.9 to 2.2 Volts. It should not be constant. At idle, assuming 18 in-Hg vacuum MAP voltage should be around 1.3 to 1.8 volts. As engine load increases MAP voltage should increase from 2.0 to about 4.3 votls. With engine stopped it should read around 4.5 give or take.
Check where you have MAP sensor receiving vacuum signal from. Only MAP sensor should be connected to that vacuum port - no other device should be sharing this port. All of the above is based that you have SD system and not MAF based TPI.
//RF
I took a look at your csv file. What stands out right away is that your MAP voltage is almost constant 1.9 to 2.2 Volts. It should not be constant. At idle, assuming 18 in-Hg vacuum MAP voltage should be around 1.3 to 1.8 volts. As engine load increases MAP voltage should increase from 2.0 to about 4.3 votls. With engine stopped it should read around 4.5 give or take.
Check where you have MAP sensor receiving vacuum signal from. Only MAP sensor should be connected to that vacuum port - no other device should be sharing this port. All of the above is based that you have SD system and not MAF based TPI.
//RF
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Alex
I took a look at your csv file. What stands out right away is that your MAP voltage is almost constant 1.9 to 2.2 Volts. It should not be constant. At idle, assuming 18 in-Hg vacuum MAP voltage should be around 1.3 to 1.8 volts. As engine load increases MAP voltage should increase from 2.0 to about 4.3 votls. With engine stopped it should read around 4.5 give or take.
Check where you have MAP sensor receiving vacuum signal from. Only MAP sensor should be connected to that vacuum port - no other device should be sharing this port. All of the above is based that you have SD system and not MAF based TPI.
//RF
I took a look at your csv file. What stands out right away is that your MAP voltage is almost constant 1.9 to 2.2 Volts. It should not be constant. At idle, assuming 18 in-Hg vacuum MAP voltage should be around 1.3 to 1.8 volts. As engine load increases MAP voltage should increase from 2.0 to about 4.3 votls. With engine stopped it should read around 4.5 give or take.
Check where you have MAP sensor receiving vacuum signal from. Only MAP sensor should be connected to that vacuum port - no other device should be sharing this port. All of the above is based that you have SD system and not MAF based TPI.
//RF
I don't have a Speed density system on my car so I guess that the MAP voltage don't have anything to do with the car ???
My car got about 18 in-HG vacuum when idling.
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Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
From: OC CA
Car: 75 Beast
Engine: 383 +EBL Flash
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 4.11 with 33"
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Then, I would look at your ECM very closely - please post service number and BCC. The ECM should match your TPI system - SD vs. MAF sensor based.
Speculation - it is possible that you have SD ECM with MAF sensor actually present in your system. Can you provided additional details about your conversion? Also, which TpRT definition did you use to capture this data log??? Definition should match BCC and ECM to provide meaningful data.
//RF
Speculation - it is possible that you have SD ECM with MAF sensor actually present in your system. Can you provided additional details about your conversion? Also, which TpRT definition did you use to capture this data log??? Definition should match BCC and ECM to provide meaningful data.
//RF
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Then, I would look at your ECM very closely - please post service number and BCC. The ECM should match your TPI system - SD vs. MAF sensor based.
Speculation - it is possible that you have SD ECM with MAF sensor actually present in your system. Can you provided additional details about your conversion? Also, which TpRT definition did you use to capture this data log??? Definition should match BCC and ECM to provide meaningful data.
//RF
Speculation - it is possible that you have SD ECM with MAF sensor actually present in your system. Can you provided additional details about your conversion? Also, which TpRT definition did you use to capture this data log??? Definition should match BCC and ECM to provide meaningful data.
//RF
Anyway, what I am sure about is that I've got the 1227165 ECM which should be the correct one for the 86-89 models TPI on the F-body cars.
I also remember the memcal code was for an 88 Camaro with 2.73 gears and AUTO trans. I assume that since it was 1988 it is not a speed density system.
I have bought programming equipment and some emulation equipment so I have made my own EPROM. Bought the GP1 adapter from moates that I installed on to the 88 model memcal.
Then I downloaded a BIN file for a 89 305 MAF TPI AUTO trans.
Then I also downloaded the 6E BIN definition file so it match up with the 89 BIN file. And also downloaded the datastream definition file that matches the 6E mask.
The reason why I wanted to use 6E as the BIN definition is because I have deleted the cold start injector so I don't need the programming for that one anymore.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 70
Likes: 4
From: Clearwater , Florida
Car: '87 Vette C4
Engine: 400 + .040 = 409 ci
Transmission: 700R4 built
Axle/Gears: Dana 44 w/3.42's
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
..... What is your open loop air fuel ratio at idle ? Where is your O2S mounted in the headers ? It should be in the collector and heated to prevent cool-off and fall out ... a rich mixture will tend to cool the O2S and will weaken the idle torque contributing to the stalling ... a basically stock TPI set-up should idle easily at 600 or so rpm ...
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,441
Likes: 1
From: sweden
Car: GTA -89
Engine: Blown 415"
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: Strange 12-bolt
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
I find it easier to use tunerpro instead of excel so a *.adl file would suit me better 
In the log file idle speed isnt 1100rpm?
Anyhow, I think you should start by adjust your idle speed in PROM to what you want then adjust the throttle blades(IAC) and TPS according to that.
And you do not WANT the TPS too high on a 6E car!
In the log file idle speed isnt 1100rpm?
Anyhow, I think you should start by adjust your idle speed in PROM to what you want then adjust the throttle blades(IAC) and TPS according to that.
And you do not WANT the TPS too high on a 6E car!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
I find it easier to use tunerpro instead of excel so a *.adl file would suit me better
In the log file idle speed isnt 1100rpm?
Anyhow, I think you should start by adjust your idle speed in PROM to what you want then adjust the throttle blades(IAC) and TPS according to that.
And you do not WANT the TPS too high on a 6E car!
In the log file idle speed isnt 1100rpm?
Anyhow, I think you should start by adjust your idle speed in PROM to what you want then adjust the throttle blades(IAC) and TPS according to that.
And you do not WANT the TPS too high on a 6E car!
Ok. I will post a Zip file with this reply with the *.adl file on it.
I know that in the log file the idle speed is not 1100RPM so mayby I am saying a little extra, but the only thing that I know is that the engine is not acting as it should at low RPM's. I have a lot of friends that has TPI engine's in their cars and they have also done some performance modifications to their engines and they seemed to run much better than my engine at low RPM's. Actually my engine perform OK at higher RPM and WOT, but I also having problems with decceleration. If I let the foot off the gas pedal the car wont start to brake. the engine keeps the RPM.
If I then brake down the car to full stop, I feel that the car has a lot of throttle still going on. So when I put transmission in Park right after full stop braking, Then the RPM will jump up to about 1500rpm - 1800RPM and slowly decrease to idle RPM which is about 900-1000rpm in Park.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
From: Norway
Car: 1987 Chevrolet Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
..... What is your open loop air fuel ratio at idle ? Where is your O2S mounted in the headers ? It should be in the collector and heated to prevent cool-off and fall out ... a rich mixture will tend to cool the O2S and will weaken the idle torque contributing to the stalling ... a basically stock TPI set-up should idle easily at 600 or so rpm ...
I am currently using my Lc1 wideband oxygen sensor as a narrow band sensor so the sensor is placed on my Hooker 2055' headers on the stock o2 sensor location. I do notice that the ECM is having troubles reading from the wideband sensor so I am going to buy a new heated 3-wire oxygen sensor instead and then weld in a bung in the Y-pipe where the exhaust from both heads meet and then do the wiring ONLY to the AFR gauge I got installed in my car.
I have tuned my opel loop AFR a little at IDLE. Actually it was WAY to lean when I started out. I think it was 20.1 or something like that and I smoothed out the idle tables so it was getting more close to 16.1.
I know that the stock TPI setup should be able to idle around 600RPM or so. I am not sure that my new Camshaft should cause the idle get so unstable.
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,441
Likes: 1
From: sweden
Car: GTA -89
Engine: Blown 415"
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: Strange 12-bolt
Re: Still not running good after TPI swap.
Try this.
- warm up
- In P, adjust your throttle blades untill you have 15-20steps on the IAC
- re adjust TPS to 0,56-0,58v
If the car doesnt like to idle that low, adjust the idle rpm in PROM and start over.
Will take a closer look tonight at the log file.
- warm up
- In P, adjust your throttle blades untill you have 15-20steps on the IAC
- re adjust TPS to 0,56-0,58v
If the car doesnt like to idle that low, adjust the idle rpm in PROM and start over.
Will take a closer look tonight at the log file.
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