...So I've decided I need to learn how to tune. Wanting to stay TPI, I just WANT to know, and frankly, most people outside of TGO can't help anymore. I've been reading on and off for years, and finally have decided to go it. I'm planning on using the Autoprom and TunerproRT.

....my question is with regard to a WB02. ...should I purchase and hook it up right away? I intend to start simple, and while I may not NEED it, I'm not against getting all the gear up and running properly at the beginning. On the other hand, I'm a little confused on exactly what is needed, and how it relates the NBo2. Do I need both, or can 1 sensor do both? I see the Autoprom has a channel for one, but it seems a lot of threads deal with people having trouble getting it all to work seamlessly. Some are quite old, to be fair, lol! (the threads, not the people)

Appreciate the patience....thanks

 

It's not needed but I would suggest using one from the get go just for that peace of mind. I started without one and things can be very overwhelming and frustrating in the beginning when learning to tune. The WB02 will give you alot more data to help with tuning and give you the assurance your not destroying your engine. I wouldn't trust it 100% of the time still should pull your plugs and give them a look over at times but the WB is a great tool that I feel would of saved me alot of frustation had I installed one from the beginning.

 

Worth every dollar....

 

I'll just say this... Tuning without a wideband is like trying to cook without any measuring utensils. Sometimes you might get lucky and it works, other times it comes out shitty.

 

I wish I could agree, but...

If money isn't an issue, then get it. If it is an issue, it can wait.

Both sensors essentially do the same thing, and both can be heated sensors if need be (heated meaning they do not need to wait for the exhaust to heat them up, they heat up on their own). The NB gives more of an approximation of where your fueling is, the WB is more precise with its' reading, allowing you to dial in the engine much faster. Both are not needed at the same time, but once your dialed in, the WB is no longer needed, either...

Most of those threads is information from RBob, and RBob simplified things for everyone by creating the EBL system. In my opinion, don't purchase a wideband just yet, and spend your money on an EBL system. Not only does it simplify things from a tuning perspective, but it will make you understand tuning much faster than you ever would by burning chips, and you will be up and running in a few minutes once it is installed...

 

Not sure if you meant to say agree or disagree, but all I meant were that I remember when most performance shops could and would tune these cars. Now, I honestly don't know of any that do. I'm sure some still do, but almost everything is all late model LS tuning.

I will look into EBL.

 

If you find someone willing to tune a thirdgen, well, never mind, you won't!


I'd surely use a wideband. I am not sure if you can tie the input into your normal tuning software, but if you could that would be great.


You would NOT need both sensors if you got a setup that includes a narrowband output.

The AEM setup I have is a wideband with wideband out, but also includes a standard narrow band out, that will allow you to only have 1 sensor with the advantages of both.

 

LOL, I remember going to see Jeff Creech at CAM YEARS ago.......like almost 20 years!!!!!

The autoprom has the input, and my understanding is that you can hack TunerproRT to read it. ...not sure if "hack" is the right word....

OK, that makes sense. I thought I read that somewhere else as well.....

 

Yes..... after thinking about it, it would be easier to get the AEM unit, use its "narrowband" output to tie into the factory ESM and then have a wideband for display, logging separately if you like...

 

One thing about WB units that use Bosch sensors, they are sensitive to heat. So they can't always be installed in place of the stock NB O2 sensor. They need to be a good 2 to 3 feet from the exhaust ports.

RBob.

 

Yes, there is a way to get the wideband to read correctly, but one of the many features of the EBL system is to not only give you a reading of any wideband you connect to it, but uses that WB data to tune your vehicle with VE Learning. Using the autoprom will take a lot of time for a new tuner to dial in their tune due to the repeated data-logging needed during test driving, and trust me that is a royal pain in the neck. With the EBL you select the bin you need that is provided, make any changes in terms of injector size and timing if your cammed, and then let the system dial in the fueling for you if unsure.

 

No need to explain, I'm already sold on the EBL! ....I have several questions about the EBL, but I'm still searching and reading. I'll put a comprehensive list together later if I can't find answers and ask at a later date!

At the moments, I'm doing some interior things, and a few little underhood things. ....and with my current mods, the car runs great. .....but I wanna have my engine management hardware/software all worked out by the time I'm ready to build the motor i've been talking about for several years now.

I guess I will ask ONE question. The EBL is basically a whole new computer essentially right? New definition file and BIN file, if my terms are correct? ....so my current tune is irrelevant then? .....At least I know that mechanically speaking the engine is sound. 3 questions apparently.

 

Your current bin file can in fact be applied, your just using a new XDF provided by Dynamic EFI to flash it in so you would need to either cut and paste the data, or rewrite it into the new bin file. Example, let's say your currently running a 383 multiport injection with 42# injectors. You would select the L98 bin provided, change the cubic inch displacement data from 350 to 383, change the injector size from 22# to 42#, then cut and paste your current spark advance table into the bin replacing the L98 spark table. You would also change the base timing, and idle state to whatever you currently have. Once you do a few VE learn's, she's just about dialed in. From there, you can tweak the tune, and change specific things tailored to what you want to do...

 

For a stock motor I'd either go with a Moates Ostrich and Tunercat/Datamaster, or the EBL.

If you go with the Ostrich (an Emulator) you can tune realtime, but you won't have any automatic VE learn functionality. Basically you'll be tuning the 'old way'. For support, you'll be relying on the forums.

On the other hand, if you go EBL you'll have auto learn functionality. EBL can't tune realtime, but rather flashes like an early LT1 PCM. For support, you get RBob and the forums.

-- Joe

 

I wont tune a car without a wideband anymore. Just so much nicer

 

The VE Learn seems pretty handy, especially for a beginner. I read through the Intro to Tuning papers on the Dynamic EFI website, and it seems a LOT more intuitive than I thought. I'm actually starting to understand.

....and while I'm interested in "how things work", honestly any tuning I do NOW...on my current motor would just be for practice. I'm hoping to build a stout heads and cam 350 in the (hopefully) near future. I'd love to be up to speed and comfortable with using whatever tuning hardware/software I end up with.

 

....Yeah, I'm starting to come to that conclusion as well. ...cost of a WB doesn't seem to be that bad, considering what it does, and what it allows you to see.