Hi, got a problem and hope someone can help me out. I have a 92 RS with VATS. I have already replaced the tumbler and key set. I have replaced my Anti-theft relay. I had my starter checked and it works fine. I replaced my battery cables. Kind of stuck from here. I was having to try and crank it a few times, it would make a click sound and then finally start-up. Yesterday while driving the car died. It started back up after I pulled over, but doesn't want to start anymore. It doesn't click of anything. It took me ab out 45 minutes of just turning the key to get it to click once. The security light is not coming on now, but it was yesterday. Does anyone have a clue on what this could be? Thanks!

Phil

 

starter solenoid?

 

I took the starter off and brought it to Autozone. They tested it with the solenoid still on and said it worked fine. I just finished taking out my alarm system that the guy I bought the car from put in. It looked kinf of messed up so I figured that may have had something to do with it. Guess I was wrong, it still does the same thing....nothing. I also checked out my neutral safety switch and it looked ok, as did the wires throughout the car I looked at. I am seriously thinking about just trying to bypass the VATS. When I get back from the sandbox I am putting a 383 or something in the car so "original equipment" isn't really important to me. Thanks!

Phil

 

If the security light is coming on and staying on until you release the key. There is a problem either with the pellet in the key or the contacts in the lock cylinder. They could just be dirty or worn. If it won't start on the first try and the light is on, wait 5 minutes and retry it. Due to the built in reset function in the VATS control module, any attempt to start the car after an unsuccessful attempt will only lenghten the wait period.

 

The security light is not coming on. I just replaced the ignition with a brand new tumbler and key about 2 months ago. I thought that was the problem to begin with, but it wasn't . The car would "click" a few times and then finally start. It did that before and after I put the new ignition in. Now, however, the car doesn't do anything. The radio, headlights, fan and everything else works. It just doesn't do anything when you turn the key, not even "click" and again the security light DOES NOT come on. Thanks!

Phil

 

Have you thought that it might be the ignition switch on the steering column under the dash is out of adjustment? There are also a couple of fuses that apply here. One is the gage fuse, another is the VATS fuse in the convenience center, and another one is the ECM fuse.

 

I checked all the fuses in the fuse box. Not sure if that applies t the ones you just mentioned. Where is the convenience center? Also will have to check the ignition switch. Thanks!

Phil

 

The convenience center is located under the dash by the drivers right knee in the same area as the ALDL terminal.

 

Okay, thanks! I will check it out as soon as I get off work. Thanks!

Phil

 

Okay, I have basically torn my car completely apart now. The entire dash is out so that I can get a very good look at what I am doing. I looked in my Chiltons manual in reference to the convenience center and it does not list anything about the VATS system. It covers the noise maker and such. I have checked for burnt wires with no luck. My fuse box is good, my ignition (tumbler) is brand new. My starter checks out as good. New battery cables, and I don't see any popped inline fuses. New VATS relay. Not sure where or what a gage fuse is or where the ECM fuse is. I am seriously beginning to dislike the person that "thought" up the VATS device. The car still does the same thing it did days ago. Won't crank, no security light but all the accesories work. The wiring diagram in my chiltons manual pretty much stinks so if anyone has any more ideas please, please, please let me know. Thanks!

Phil

 

Okay, on your car the VATS fuse is on the fuse panel and not in the convenience. Here is a picture of your fuse panel with the fuses marked. You mention that the tumbler is brand new, are you using the key with the pellet in it or are you using the brass key that came with the lock cylinder?

 

You straightened me out on that one about two months ago. I am using the $30 key with the chip in it. What book are you pulling these wire diagrams from? The one I have basically sux. You can't read half the stuff and it doesn't show which wire really goes where. Thanks for the help I will go out right now and see what I got. Thanks!

Phil

 

Handy dandy GM service manual for your car. Good steal off e-bay for $20.00.

 

Just a little tid bit...do you know that your security light in the dash works? It could be causing a bit of unessecary confusion if it is out.
To check to see if it is the key or not, down under the dash near the steering column is a connector for the VATS to ignition cylinder. Make your own resistor that is equal to the key by wiring together a $2 box of them, and plug that into the VATS end of the connector, then try it. That would rule out the problem with the key not making good contacts if it still doesn't work. If you still think it is the VATS, you can try the different resistor combos (there are like 13 aren't there) until it works.

 

I am sure the light works. I had that problem before where the ignition cylinder went out. I am going to double check that again in a minute just to make sure it didn't break again. I think the guy I got the car from jacked something up in the wiring. It has never started right, but at least before it started. There are splices all over under the dash. We'll see maybe I'll get lucky today. Thanks!

Phil

 

Okay, I just retested my key/ignition cylinder. My key reads 11.74 but when I stick it in the igntion and test those two flippin wires wrapped in the orange plastic I get nothing. Does anything have to be hooked up other than the key in the ignition and the reader in the wires? Just checking resistance here right? Anyway, if this is the problem (my brand stinking new ignition cylider is bad) all I have to do is go to Radio Shack and get 11.74 resistant resistors right? Thanks!

Phil

 

i don't think that anything else needs to be hooked up. Maybe wait for another opinion first...but year...just run to radio shack and get the little wire resistors and make them 11.74...I think you can have up to 10% error either way.

 

Okay, I have the resistors. They are measuring 11.75 which is within range. Now I have two wires coming down the column plugging into the connector. Which of the two wires do I cut to solder in the resistors? Just want to make sure I don't jack this up. Thanks!

Phil

 

Did you try it out to see if your car will start now? You should be able to just put the ends of your homemade resistor into the connector. Until you know that it is going to work at least. Then, what I did was to cut a few inches from the connector that is originally connected to the lock cylinder and splice the resistor in. Then you just clip the connectors together and you're ready to go....Make sure to try it out first though before you do any cutting or soldering.

I'll try to explain it again in case you couldn't follow what i tried to type the first time. You would be cutting both wires immediately connected to the lock cylinder. You would cut them a few inches from where the two connectors clip together. You would then connect one end of the resistor to one of the wires that you cut, and the other end to the other wire that you cut (making a loop) then you would connect the two connectors together.

I hope that is a little clearer, make sure that it works though before you do any cutting.

 

Just so I don't completely break everything.....
Please take a look at these jpegs and tell me if either of them is correct. Well call them try 1 (left) and try 2 (right). Thanks!

Phil

 

If you are getting nothing by measuring the resistance value through the wires coming off the lock cylinder, then you have a broken wire on the lock cylinder.

 

I say try 2, except the ignition lock cylinder doesn't have to be connected at all. You're bypassing the lock cylinder by adding the resistor in. Actually I don't think it would work if it was connected to the lock cylinder (resistors in parallel are added inversely IIRC) I also just read that heat can change the resistance on these resistors. I've never had a problem, but I just feel that I should warn you.

 

Okay, I think I got it. What is being said is disconnect the lock cylinder wire from at the connector. I then take the wire from the harness (not the lock cylinder) and splice in the resistor I created. I.E. cut the connector piece off and splice the homemade resistor between the two wires from the harness. It all makes sense now. The skies have cleared and I now see the light...who wants to bet this doesn't work, simply because the shadetree mechanic in the sky doesn't want me to fix this piece of....nice car. I think it can tell when I talk or type bad about it. To all who helped...Thanks!!!! I'll let you know how it comes out.

Phil

 

That's why you cut the wire on the lock cylinder side and not the VATS control module side just in case it doesn't work. Also so you can remove it if you want to when you park it somewhere shady.

 

Got that shady part grew up right out side Detroit. Have to admit Fort Riley, KS is a little nicer. Thanks for all the info.

Phil

 

Holy Canoly, got the resistor put in, wires put back together hooked the battery back up put the key in, turned the key and...nothing. Now I don't even hear the fuel pump (which I could before). I got the resistor as close as I could my key reads 11.74 and I got 11.78 out of the resistor. Anyone else got any ideas? Bought to get some insurance money....thanks!

Phil

 

well..unless they gave you the wrong key, I think you can rule out a VATS problem. I don't know what else to tell you, it seems as though you've checked everything out. Maybe the Trickster has some more ideas" I have to say I really do like this form of a VATS bypass because I live in Flint, MI now, and it is a really cool option to be able to completely disable your car.

 

Hello Phil,
You will see my name in your last post for an edit, I apologize for that. I was going to quote you in a post and hit the wrong button.
I don't know what you have your meter set to when you measured the resistance value in your key. However, the resistance value should be 1174 (one thousand one hundred seventy four) OHM's and not 11.74 (eleven point seventy four) OHM's. You may have made your by-pass chip too small for it to work. Have you looked at the ignition switch on the steering column as a possible culprit or maybe the park/neutral switch?

 

Would the ignition switch or the neutral switch make the security light not come on? Thanks!

Phil

 

Okay, I just checked the ignition switch. I am not getting power at the ignition point on the fuse box. I tested the incoming wires into the ignition and they read:

B2 and B3 getting power
S is getting 242 ohm
I3 is getting 1164 ohm

Anyone know if that seems right? I am thinking since I am not getting power to the fuse box but am getting power to the switch the switch is probably bad. Thoughts? Thanks!

Phil

 

The connection that you want to check for power is the red wire going to the VATS fuse. You have already said that you are getting power to the ignition switch from the battery. Now check the yellow wire coming (the one you have listed as "S") ignition switch and the pink wire (I1) to see if they are getting power with the key in the "RUN" position. If they aren't then your ignition switch is out of adjustment or bad. Don't worry about the OHM's reading on "S" & "I3". You want to have voltage there.

 

Okay, I have power going to both those wires, but I only have power going to the pink on when I actually turn the key start. It makes the fuel pump kick in. This is an improvement because before it wouldn't do that. Also, I read that I am supposed to have 12v going to wire F on the neutral safety switch. I have nothing and when I put the car in gear and turn the key the fuel pump is still kicking in. Doesn't sound normal to me. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Phil

 

By the Gods above....the car finally cranks and wants to start. It hasn't started yet though. Oh btw the reason I didn't have power at the neutral safety switch is because I forgot to put the VATS realy back in...Dooh! Thanks for all the help!

Phil

P.S. Trickster I owe you a beer.

 

If I'm ever in that area I'll collect on it.

 

Okay, car cranks wants to start but.....back fires through the TBI. I know this how? Because I no longer have eyebrows or hair on my right arm. Seriously, she is spitting a big fireball out. Not sure why because I didn't mess with any timing or anything. My fuel pump is working the motor is cranking and my homemade resistor is in place. Think maybe I need to play with some timing? Any more ideas? Thanks!

Phil

P.S. Anyone wanted to buy a 92 RS? Just kidding

 

Did you by any chance have any of the sparkplug wires off? Just a thought, a friend got his wires on backwards and got some nice fireballs from his throttle body. Said he had been half asleep at the time and that he was wide awake after it happened. Not to mention that he also had to go change his pants. You may also have accumulated a lot of fuel in there when you were trying to start it earlier. How do your sparkplugs look?

 

I didn't take any of the wires off. Didn't play with anything under the hood except to check the fuel pump/fan relays. I think I just got to much fuel in there considering when I finally got my fuel pump working I was playing with it for about 10 minutes. All the while grinning like a boy who just found his "magic toy".
I'm gonna give it a rest for a little while, charge the battery back up and let some fuel evaporate. I'll try it after I BBQ me some burgers. Thanks!


Phil

 

Alrighty then, here is my current status. The car will start IF you continue to hold the key forward (in the start position), but as soon as you let go and it goes back to RUN the car dies. I did not mess with anything like timing under the hood. I only tested power at the fuel pump relay. Seeing as all my troubles so far have come from the ignition switch could thisjust be another issue with it? Thanks!

Phil

Forgot to add, the fuel pump doesn't prime when the key is intially place in the run position. It doesn't kick on until it is turned to the start position. Figured that may be important....

 

Have you looked at the fuel pump relay, it is supposed to get a 2 second signal from the ECM when the key is turned to the "RUN" position. As it stands now it sounds like the pump is not kicking in until there is about 4 PSI of oil pressure. But yes, definitely check the ignition switch on the steering column. Another individual on the board was having problems and swore it was VATS, turned out to be the rod that runs down the steering column to the ignition switch was bent out of its track. Considering how things have been going here, did you remember to re-connect the fuel pump relay?

 

I am starting to think that is my problem too. The bent rod I mean. It seems as if the rod is off track. When the ignition is in the start position I think it is actually in the RUN position. I don't think it is getting all the way to start. It was bumping but not anymore. The reason behind me thinking this is the blinkers and stuff that only work in the run position are not turning on until it goes to the start position. I hope I explained that right. And I hope this fixes the stinking problem. I did put a new ignition switch in but it didn't change anything. Anyone want to buy an ignition switch? Anyway let me get back to work. Thanks!

Phil

 

Could someone please take the "I am an Idiot" sign off my head? Found my problem. Hooked up two wires wrong when I was rewiring the ignition switch. Thanks for everyones help.

Phil

 

Only until the next time Phil!! J/K