My driver's side window suddenly stopped working. I can hear it trying to work so I know it is getting juice.

I've spent a couple hours searching the dozens of threads on this subject. Most are very old so thought I would start this one to see what the latest conclusions are.

1) Replace the motor. probably a good idea anyway. I see the easy way is to drill a few holes to get to the motor screws. Do I need to buy the whole motor assembly to do this or can I just buy the motor separately? Should I buy the whole assembly to make all new?
2) Maintain the lube on the tracks and window mechanisms.
3) Check the switch for good contact, replace if faulty.

I see several posts on relays and such but I just want my window to work and keep it as original as possible. Unless these actually help with reliability I don't think they are needed?

Before I tear into this is there any major items I am missing?

 

Since I have no way of knowing what your knowledge base is on working with power windows, or what your mechanical aptitude is, I have one piece of advice to pass on to you here;

There is a really strong wound coil spring involved here, that can cause all manners of hand injuries if not respected. When the window is up, the spring tension is lesser, and when the window is down the spring tension is greater. The purpose of this spring is that when the window is down, and the spring is tight, the spring helps lift the window as the motor is lifting the window up to the closed position.

Also, if I recall correctly (It's been a good number of years since I replaced my window motors) the motor is riveted in place, so in addition to drilling the holes you mentioned, you'll be drilling out rivets as well, and then replacing them with either new rivets or nuts & bolts. If you do go with the nuts & bolts, locknuts are a must here.....

 

I second "Orangebird's" warning about the spring. You must maintain CONTROL of it as you disassemble the window regulator.

Since it's trying to work, the motor is probably bad. Id' recommend removing the inner door panel and looking for anything bent, broken, which your not likely to find. I'd shop rockauto , then Amazon w/ part numbers for a new motor.

Replace the motor or motor /regulator assembly, as indicated. I use this to install new door rivets, which I prefer to bolts and nuts.

https://www.harborfreight.com/17-12-...gg_q=rivet+gun



To remove the OLD rivets, use a PUNCH to drive the center :nail" out of the old rivet, before drilling off the rivet head.

 

Excellent input! I am far from a pro but have fixed a few window mechanisms over the many years I've been on the planet. I am well aware of the potential energy involved and how it needs to be arrested prior to "letting things loose". I should have included it in the summary as it is more than worthy to note. What would be good input is how others have learned to actually safely do this on the Camaro? I know based on other vehicles the window has to be up to get good access so I assume this is the case with the Camaro also and therefore the spring is at full recoil?

As far as the removing the rivets; from what I have read you can drill holes in the panel to access the screws that hold the motor in place without having to drill out the rivets. It is said replacing the motor alone will typically fix the problem. The rivets need to be drilled out to replace the whole assembly. If it is known the gearbox/actuator portion is also prone to wear I have not problem with the complication of drilling out the rivets.

As I plan on keeping this car for a while I have no internist in just a temporary fix so would be great if others have learned of a long term solution? However, I'm not a supporter of replacing things for the sake of replacing them.

 

Like all of "third gen guy's" videos, his one on this subject is excellent! I assume he is a member here?

 

Yes, his username is McLovin...

 

Just as a warning for the assist spring should be made...

So should the actual Scissor Mech/ Design Window Regulator.

I have seen everything from minor cuts...
To severed Fingers and also Wrist cut so badly, that bleeding-out could occur in 5-Minutes.

Please be very careful!
There are several reasons why Window Regulators are never designed this way anymore...
But possible near fatal injuries are an excellent reason alone!!!

 

Yep..... If they still made them that way, the door would have to be plastered with a bunch of "don't put your pecker in the fan" warning stickers like every flippin thing else that has one or more moving parts nowadays.....

 

I ordered two power window motors so hope to have this fixed soon.

I am curious if the relay modification adds any real functional or reliability benefits?

 

Relays can:
-Prolong the life of the Power Window Switches (OEM Switches are no longer produced, and aftermarket replacements are too often junk).
-The Modern Circuit Designs that incorporate Relays, are simply a better Design (although in this situation, it's not a massive advantage).
-Window Operation Speed can be improved in some situations/ with some Circuit Designs.

Otherwise for Window Operation Speed improvements...
Boost Converter Circuits can be built/ added to a Modern Power Window Circuit very easily...
The OEM Design Power Window Circuits can have a Product like a "Window-Racer" added.

Another aspect that I personally like with using relays...
Is just how easy it can be to add in another Circuit for "Express-Down" Windows.
"Express-Up" Windows can also be done (alone or with the "Express-Down" Circuits).

 

While were on that subject, any progress with a stand a lone power window relay harness?
Also I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on using 451M Micro Door Lock Relay Modules

Also came across this,
Electric Window Helper(s) | Rodney Dickman Automotive Accessories

 

Stand-Alone Harnesses are 90% Complete...
But with the following issues:

-My Cost for EACH Window Switch Electrical Connector, has gone up to $19.99, and it is ridiculous.
-My Cost for EACH Terminal needed (4 per Connector) has gone up to $1.49, and it is ridiculous.

Two Connectors and Eight Terminals cost me: $51.90 is just way too much money to complete the Harnesses.

No one is going to purchase these things... even if I sold them at a ZERO PROFIT!!!


I have to wait until Prices normalize.
Sorry.

 

You would be surprised what some of us will buy when it makes our classics more modern and reliable.

 

I was just going to say the same thing. Getting around to replacing my window motors soon and a relay harness would be a good addition at the same time.

 

Okay well...

If Everyone (or at least MOST People) Here are looking for; and are fine with all of the following:

-My Standalone Power Window Harnesses that incorporate Modern Sealed Relays.
-Don't need Express UP/ Down Functionality.
-Can Send me their own Window Switch Connectors.
-Can Pre-Pay for their Harnesses.

Then I can absolutely get these made!


The OEM/ GM/ ACDelco Express Up/ Down Modules have been long gone...
Reliable replacements, are just NOT Reliable Enough currently.

And like I said the Cost of the Parts have skyrocketed.

But I am happy to do this, if you guys are flexible!

 

Window motor install.......THE EASY WAY....the tech article is bogus! - Page 3 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards


I followed this method years ago and had good results.

 

Question for you guys:

Do you prefer to have to un-snake the wires through the door, door Harness-Accordion, and into the cabin near the Dash-Board for each Door?
This is so that you do not have to cut the original 2-Wires that connect to each Window Motor.

This way you just connect the Pink wires from each window to a new Switched 12v+ Source.
Connect another Ground Eyelet to stack on the original Ground Eyelet

The Harnesses have built in Fuses with the Relays.

Or to avoid Un-Snaking the wires...
You have to cut the 2-Wires that go to each Window Motor (Blue and Brown to 1 Window) (L-Blue and Tan to the other Window).
I provide Terminals to re-attach to cut Wires to the New Harness.

 

Ideally, I'd rather remove any unused wiring, but removing these four wires could be a daunting task, doable but certainly not fun. In this case I think I'd rather cut the wires at the window motors or just add new connectors.
What is the targeted location for the fuse holders and relays?

 

The Relays and Fuses take up very little space...

I personally might try to put them under the Center-Console, but they will easily go behind the Passenger-Side Dash-Board.

Each Window will have one of these small GEP 24-Way Sealed IPBEC (Fuse and Relay Centers)...
Shown in the Top Left Corner of the Image Below"





But with 2 Relays and 1 Fuse EACH.

 

I got the new window motors yesterday. I bought two thinking that if the motors need replaced I might as well do both even though the passenger side seems to work fine. I was able to find some new ACDelco units. They were a bit more expensive but thought keeping things as close to original as possible might be beneficial. Maybe not?

So today I started digging deeper into the problem. Keeping things simple I started with the switch. Tore into the console and removed the switch. Man was it dirty so I gave it a shot or deoxit and lots of grit came out. Looking at the pins I figured out how to jump the connecter and was very happy to find the window went up and down just fine. Reconnected the switch and I could get it to work but was very touchy. Decided to tear into the switch itself and found the copper contacts were worn and the striker plate was a bit deformed.

I have not had any reason to mention this but one of my other hobbies is to restore vintage audio equipment. I know how to rebuild most any mechanical switch and have done it many times. A little sliver solder on the contacts (much harder than lead) to build them up and reforming the striker plate I was able to get really good continuity. Re-installed the rebuilt switch and now the window works fine. I will keep the motors as I plan to keep this car for some time and based on what I have read here they will go sooner or later.

As far as relays. I have upgraded many vintage audio power switches with relays. Some of this old equipment originally had the power switch directly connected to 120v mains. With the current draw on these components this can be very hard on the switch and it is very often the case the switch is not up to the task over a long period of time. A better solution is to have the same switch just handle a low current toggle to a quality relay and let the relay handle the higher current. It works great and quality relays do the job very well and are very durable. I think this is what is needed with these window switches. If done right, it is simple and would keep the original functional nature of my car. The current draw on these motors is major and the mechanical switch having to handle it over time is a difficult expectation.

Meanwhile, I am good for now as my windows are currently working fine.

 

Me too, nice to meet a fellow Vacuum Tube technologist

Here is my 1947 Westinghouse 14 tube radio I restored. Because it is from the very beginnings of the modern FM band (88 to 108 MHZ band vs the original 42 to 50 MHZ) I went all the way with this one, even restuffing all of the original capacitors vs simply replacing them. Gotta love the sound these old units produce when restored right.

And, I'm happy to hear about your success with the switches

 

What a coincidence.
.

....Well Vintage Medical Equipment Anyway (X-Ray Equip especially):

 

[QUOTE=OrangeBird;6499203]Me too, nice to meet a fellow Vacuum Tube technologist

Here is my 1947 Westinghouse 14 tube radio I restored. Because it is from the very beginnings of the modern FM band (88 to 108 MHZ band vs the original 42 to 50 MHZ) I went all the way with this one, even restuffing all of the original capacitors vs simply replacing them. Gotta love the sound these old units produce when restored right.

And, I'm happy to hear about your success with the switches
/QUOTE]

I rebuilt several Scott and Fisher tube components from the 50s/60s. Great sounding! Lately I am into Yamaha, Sony, Nakamichi and Technics components from the 80s.

 

Posted in error

 

Everything @vorteciroc said is dead-on.

With that said, has anyone on here tried upgrading the window motor, as mentioned in this thread?

This requires a custom adapter plate, but I have already purchased a Beretta window motor, and plan to use it in conjunction with a relay.

No matter which motor you use, upgrade the power supply, first.

 

Interesting, I did kinda skimmed through that thread but I'm missing what the benefit is, it's not gear reduction is it? they both have a 12 tooth gear right?

 

As I understand it, it's a faster/ stronger motor. There's a 12 tooth Beretta motor (that we use), and a 9 tooth 'Vette motor.

 

I CAN make the Power Window Harnesses (with Sealed Fuse and Relay Mini-Panel) now for you guys.

You have to send me your Window Switch Connectors with 6" to 8" of Wire still attached.
Or Pay the CRAZY prices for new Connectors and Terminals (I supply these at the ACTUAL Cost of the Parts, since they are so Expensive).


You can have standard TXL Wiring inside a Expandable Braided PET (Tech-Flex) Loom...
Or you can have the Protective Raychem DR-25 ("Mil-Spec") treatment for the Harness.

I'm not going to offer the "TefZel" Wire ("Mil-Spec") unless someone specifically asks.

Reply here for anyone ready to commit to this, and I will PM a rough estimate of cost for what you want to have made.

 

So, in other words, nothing until, at least mid-November, 2024 ?
Depending on who wins, in November, 2024, things may NEVER "normalize", ever again !

 

LOL!

But seriously most of this stuff the Prices may never go down on.

The Old Discontinued Parts Prices just go up and up and up, year after year.